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[2023 Six Nations] England vs Scotland - 4 February 2023

Some awful defensive play
LIONSxv said:
England defence atrocious. Holes everywhere
Steward gets skinned way to often as as international FB
Not sure if this has been said before but Farrel isn't an international centre
Line outs poor
Young's is terrible
England kicked too much again
Ref awful and inconsistent, however we need to take the ref out of the equation
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Glad I'm not the only one who has noticed this.
 
Ragey Erasmus said:
Scotland barely ever finish outside the bottom half of the table with 3rd being the lofty heights they have achieved. They are not Italy level whipping boys but, even now, they are statistically the 2nd worst team in the tournament. The exception? Against England. The Scots get fired up for this and we don't. Someone needs to give the players a slap round the head and shout out them, if they can't be bothered against the Scots they are out. I am tired of England just not bothering on the field against the Scots, players not getting back in position etc. Every English try was hard fought whilst every Scottish try came from a gaping hole in our defence the players were too lazy to fill. These holes were right in the ******* centre of the pitch. These are paid professionals. If I ****** up this much at my job, I'd be fired. Maybe these players need to be reminded of that?
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I literally agree with most of what u say about England and should get up for the fight to rival the Scott's is it perhaps this incorrect sentient of Scotland being whipping boys that prevents them doing so, all I am saying is they are unlikely to beat the standout two but they are top two in the world currently, I just don't think you can accurately accuse the Scott's of being general whipping boys to any extent, this tournament was only ever likely to be between Ireland and France but that simply doesn't equate to Scotland being whipping boys, that attitude and history probably feeds the desire to put in their best against us also.
 
What was also good to note was that were no cards or really contentious decisions
 
Old Hooker said:
Maybe, but at the end of the day Scotland are a mid table team who we've just lost to at home.
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At the end of the day its a brand new coaching set up so we have to cut them a little slack. New defensove systems will lead defensove errors, But in attack when we started to get that back row and Chessum going we actually looked good, Dombrandt shouldn't have been taken off imo and Isiekwe is not an impact player.

Alot of positives as well as work ons but its a different feeling to an EJ game.

I really am gutted for the loss and believe we could have won that and arguably were the better team for large parts but lapses in defence and inaccuracies at the start cost us dearly as well as Faz' boot
 
Why can't Scotland be credited with a very good attack rather than poor England defence? The ruck guard try aside Scotland's scores came from manipulation of the defence much like England's did.

Yes, there will always be work ons and "things that could be done different" but overall that was a mostly settled Scotland side with a plan and talent coming to disrupt the party. Which they did and didn't do. England did more right than wrong today, steps have certainly been made from just a short time ago. Its a work in progress after a long period of turgid ordure.

If Scotland can perform like that consistently they will win more.
 
I've had enough of this Six Nations already. Can't we just toss off the next 4 games?. I honestly couldn't care less. Enjoy watching the other teams but England give us nothing in this tournament year in year out. I'm sick of it. Scotland deserved to win today and they played well, but our record against Scotland is an embarrassment.
 
Jimbo said:
I literally agree with most of what u say about England and should get up for the fight to rival the Scott's is it perhaps this incorrect sentient of Scotland being whipping boys that prevents them doing so, all I am saying is they are unlikely to beat the standout two but they are top two in the world currently, I just don't think you can accurately accuse the Scott's of being general whipping boys to any extent, this tournament was only ever likely to be between Ireland and France but that simply doesn't equate to Scotland being whipping boys, that attitude and history probably feeds the desire to put in their best against us also.
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If Sinfield and Cockerill can't get a team fired up there's a problem.

But for all England fans are peed off...I think there were glimpses tonight that this team has some serious potential. They've had what 11 days together?

And players like Dan Kelly etc not involved...who defo would have been.

Chessum outstanding...

I'd still love to see Ted Hill in. A big highly physical and powerful 6
 
Jimbo said:
I literally agree with most of what u say about England and should get up for the fight to rival the Scott's is it perhaps this incorrect sentient of Scotland being whipping boys that prevents them doing so, all I am saying is they are unlikely to beat the standout two but they are top two in the world currently, I just don't think you can accurately accuse the Scott's of being general whipping boys to any extent, this tournament was only ever likely to be between Ireland and France but that simply doesn't equate to Scotland being whipping boys, that attitude and history probably feeds the desire to put in their best against us also.
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Statistically Scotlands golden year has finished with 3rd, they have not topped that in the entire 6N history. That places them as the 2nd worst team in the tournament. If we cannot expect our team to beat a team whose highest ever finish is 3rd, then we have serious problems. This isn't a 1 off loss to the Scots, this is now one of our worst ever runs against the Scots in the entirety of rugby history. I am getting tired of the current England team constantly setting records for worst ever performances in the whole history of rugby. Do these players have no shame? If someone comes to them and says "you have been responsible for setting a new record for worst ever performance in the entirety of rugby history" do they feel nothing?

If someone came to me and told me that, statically, I had been one of the worst performers in 3 centuries, I'd be pretty devastated. These players don't seem to give a ****. Under Jones they got 4 of the worst ever points recorded in the ENTIRE HISTORY OF RUGBY and did they give a ****? No. Now the first chance to make a statement and what statement do they make? They are going for the record of worst ever run against the Scots in history. Seriously, someone need to give these ******* players the hairdryer treatment. **** everything else, if you can't be bothered, you get the **** out of the team and we will replace you with someone who can. Look at what happened to the French team when they replaced a bunch a lazy, apathetic old guard with young players who gave a ****. England need to do the same.

There are few old guard who still deserve their places. Farrell and both Vunipolas need to go for a start. Youngs is useless with the odd, unimportant game where he performs. Players need to be told in no uncertain terms that, if you can't be bothered in the game, don't bother showing up for training. We need players with fire, with intelligence and with passion. As it is we have players who are physically there but lack any intelligence or passion.

I don't think the problems with England are physical, they are psychological and this appears to be completely neglected. England players do not seem to give a **** about England.
 
Rinkadink said:
Why can't Scotland be credited with a very good attack rather than poor England defence?
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Because of the gaping holes in midfield and the players litterally falling off tackles....

Don't get me wrong...Scotland took their chances well for all that....fair dos to them....

But I think England will improve considerably over the duration of this 6n.
 
Changes in the team from the last EJ selection:
Malins for Freeman: Malins scored 2 tries but was defensively dubious. I don't mind this, wingers are there to score.
Marchant for Tuilagi: Not sure Marchant did too much but would Tuilagi have been any better? Not sure. Glad to see Marchant get the gig.
Hassell-Collins for May: Happy to see this. It's his debut, he's allowed to be 'solid'.
Genge for Vunipola: Yes!
Chessum for Hill: an unqualified success!
Ludlam for Coles: Ludlam looked very good, most obviously when he made Malins' second try.
B. Curry for T. Curry: surely Earl would have been the better choice. Earl looked very good when he came on and was extremely unlucky wiht his excellent turnover.
Dombrandt for Vunipola: no complaints pre game, but Dombrandt did have a few minutes where it all went wrong for him.

It did look like the problems were the same old same old:
Smith-Farrell doesn't work.
Steward has been excellent at 15, but had a poor game today (shoving off Tuipolutu not withstanding)
Ben Youngs has far more off days than on days.
Mako Vunipola shambled round like a slightly confused elderly person
 

Jimbo said:
I'll be honest my geography isn't great but last I checked London was the capital of England and Itoje place of birth, the validity of your argument is very questionable if you fact check….
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Read between the lines Champ.
My point has zero to do with eligibility and everything to do with a **** excuse for English incompetence
 
Rinkadink said:
Why can't Scotland be credited with a very good attack rather than poor England defence? The ruck guard try aside Scotland's scores came from manipulation of the defence much like England's did.

Yes, there will always be work ons and "things that could be done different" but overall that was a mostly settled Scotland side with a plan and talent coming to disrupt the party. Which they did and didn't do. England did more right than wrong today, steps have certainly been made from just a short time ago. Its a work in progress after a long period of turgid ordure.

If Scotland can perform like that consistently they will win more.
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👍👏
 
Ending with Iseikwe Earl Ludlam was a mistake. Dombrandt with all his handling errors actually did some good stuff and i was surprised he came off. And Iseikwe was in the 19 shirt and i think should have come on for itoje, also think Ribbans should have been on the bench as he offers some attacking threat where as Iseikwe doesnt unfortunatly. For the end of the game the forwards balance was off IMO.
 
We missed Slades defensive leadership badly. Those gaps wouldn't have been there without him.
I've been critical of him in attack but in this system he might be very interesting.

Chessum superb.
Questions over Itoje for me now...bet I get slated for that suggestion.

Dan Kelly would have been great for that game.

The rest...same again...let them buy in to the system...

Oh and Bring in Ted Hill.
 
England really need to give the "golden boys" a kick up the arse. Faz, Itoje and Youngs should not start and maybe not be on the bench, Let them know in no uncertain terms that, if they don't put in performances, they are out. They have been living off reputation for too long without putting in performances to justify that reputation.. I hate to say it but we need the ruthlessness that came with Jones when he first came on the scene, if you are not interested in performing and you think you are secure in your position, guess again. We cannot afford dead weight at this level. Every player must know they are replaceable.
 
Disappointed by the result, but congrats to Scotland. VDM rightfully MotM.
Plus points for England........... Chessum and Ludlum were both outstanding. Earls and Hassell-Collins caught the eye too.
Negatives, and there are plenty.
Youngs surely must be dropped. Slow, wrong decisions, misplaced passes he brings nothing to the team anymore.
Mako looks more ponderous than before. Another one for the rugby glue factory.
Farrell is not, and never will be an inside centre. Injuries forced Borthwick's hand here, but Smith/Farrell does not work. It's been tried and failed too many times before. Kelly must start at 12 when fit.
Curry and Itoje had pretty innocuous games. I wouldn't be averse to benching Itoje and bringing in Ribbans for Italy.
Steward and Malins shown up defensively.
 

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