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[2023 Six Nations] England Squad

And they've been going backwards for seasons under Jones.

Borthwick will bring us round...I have faith.
I'd like to, but really don't.

His flip flopping over 10. And I think he really wants Ford.

His use of subs

Some of his selections. Arundell was given a complete hospital pass today.

No evidence of a new coach bounce.

His selection of a badly inexperienced coaching team.

He had a few injuries to cope with, but every coach does. So far no evidence that he's made a real difference. It's not even like Italy where we can say that we can see what they're trying to do, despite results going against them.
 
I have no idea where England needs better players. Obviously spark plugs anywhere would help but it just seems so bland.

My initial thought is scrum half but idk if I've seen England secure quick secure ball this entire tournament. It seems to be almost a rucking technique thing since I'm sure England has good athletes.

With the backs idk. I thought tuliagi would make a huge difference because Aki/danty type centers are in fashion again but it just didn't click. England needs a ball carrier in the middle to create space out wide. You would think dombradt would be that guy but he just isn't. Just a strange situation.
 
I'd like to, but really don't.

His flip flopping over 10. And I think he really wants Ford.

His use of subs

Some of his selections. Arundell was given a complete hospital pass today.

No evidence of a new coach bounce.

His selection of a badly inexperienced coaching team.

He had a few injuries to cope with, but every coach does. So far no evidence that he's made a real difference. It's not even like Italy where we can say that we can see what they're trying to do, despite results going against them.
I agree he totally trusts ford who's the happy medium between Farrell and Smith.

I think he's flip flopping because he wants more attack but doesn't trust Smiths control of a game at this level.
I'm now convinced Ford will stsrt the warm up games and the world Cup. .and Smith will be at home.

Also I was wrong about the squads...Borthwick can make as many changes as he wants now. I don't think he'll make rhay many but it will be interesting to see who comes in and who goes.
 
I still can't really put my finger on where England's issue is exactly. It seems like everywhere has some issue. Borthwick was right about how statistically England aren't good at anything. Another big issue seems to be fitness and consistency. England have good patches, but can't keep it up for long. The attack is truly woeful and unfortunately it seems like Nick Evans has had no impact at all. I'm struggling to accept that England are a bad team, but something is clearly wrong across the board. However, are these small fixes or symptoms of a larger issue such as the quality of the premiership?
 
The England forwards really don't dominant teams anymore. We could always rely on a solid often dominant set piece, good maul and punishing defense. Saw a bit of the defense yesterday but not much else. England are missing Lawes and Kruis. I like Willis and Ludlam but Dombrant unfortunately isn't test level.

Until the pack steps up several levels the only thing the backs can do is try and keep the score respectable which they managed yesterday but failed to the week before.
 
The England forwards really don't dominant teams anymore. We could always rely on a solid often dominant set piece, good maul and punishing defense. Saw a bit of the defense yesterday but not much else. England are missing Lawes and Kruis. I like Willis and Ludlam but Dombrant unfortunately isn't test level.

Until the pack steps up several levels the only thing the backs can do is try and keep the score respectable which they managed yesterday but failed to the week before.
Is that down to selection though. Jones wanted a faster all action game and selected smaller more around flankers locks etc.

Why hasn't Ribbans been selected he stood out yesterday for doing the physical stuff we've missed.

We have the players to come in and I think Borthwick will make the changes in prep for what is effectively a free run at the world Cup with little expectations.
 
Personally I think there are quite a few forwards who just arnt that hood any more.

I'd drop:

George - we need a beast who actually offers an impact
Snicker- blows hot and cold but just not up to international rugby every game
Itoje - just makes stupid mistakes every game. Can celebrate a penalty with a stupid massive cheer but can't listen to the ref or learn the laws at the line out it seems. Maybe a bench option but maybe he just doesn't have the composure for the top level at the moment.
Dombrant - I really wanted him to do well but he isn't fit enough nor strong enough.

I think that's the spine of the pack that needs replacing.

In the backs it's hard to tell as they just looked toothless. I thought Farrell played well in parts and not in others.

The main thing in the backs is we need balance in the centre pairing and some impact on the wings. Malins played well but doesn't seem to offer that point of impact. Not sure if Freddie Steward is as slow as everyone makes out. Just needs balance.
 
Is that down to selection though. Jones wanted a faster all action game and selected smaller more around flankers locks etc.

Why hasn't Ribbans been selected he stood out yesterday for doing the physical stuff we've missed.

We have the players to come in and I think Borthwick will make the changes in prep for what is effectively a free run at the world Cup with little expectations.
Thought Jones wanted a dominant England pack? That's why he stuck with Billy and Mako for so long. Also wasn't Hill selected by Jones because he was physical?
 
Snicker- blows hot and cold but just not up to international rugby every game
Always a bit wary of being to critical of tightheads at international level. Yeah they don't get around the back and make the breaks etc but scrummaging at that level is so ******* hard and he is the lynch pin of that scrum.

Would be interesting to see his tackle count for yesterday
 
Watching England since that "Autumn Nations Cup" in November 2020 has been such a painful experience. It'll have been 3 years of garbage by the time we get to the WC. Totally unacceptable.
 
Thought Jones wanted a dominant England pack? That's why he stuck with Billy and Mako for so long. Also wasn't Hill selected by Jones because he was physical?
Well that's what he said. Billy yes, but is Mako dominant. Around the park he was but that was a good few years ago now and he's never a destructive scrummager.

If I was picking a power lock I personally wouldn't pick Hill. Ribbans was the obvious in my opinion. But I'm not an experienced top level coach.
 
So, looking back over the tournament as a whole. No discernible attacking shape and erratic defence. New coaching team hasn't yet covered themselves in glory - they've haven't got the strongest group of players but they're not close to getting the best out of them either.

LH: Genge had some moments but not consistently influential enough. Fra was a black mark against his leadership credentials. Marler, VRR and Rodd would all have been better options than Mako.

Hooker: George looks like yesterday's man compared to Marchand, Sheehan and Turner. With LCD out no real alternatives. Shame McGuigan wasn't around. Borthwick's treatment of Walker was fairly contemptuous. Blamire possibly?

TH: Some moments from Sinckler but generally too passive and a bit of a pen machine. Cole's been a great servant but is of his time - little ball playing or dynamism and no Antonio in the scrum. Stuart has a chance to claim shirt when fit, but a position of weakness.

Lock: Shame Chessum got hurt as it's now him plus AN Other. Few options available that are either outright huge and powerful or a ball player. Itoje needs to reset and made to fight for his place.

Flankers: Missing Lawes and T Curry who have been our first choices and a top form Underhill would be there too. Willis went missing v Fra but otherwise came out in credit although may need to be a bit quicker over the ground. Ludlam works hard but doesn't really influence matches - if everyone's fit he doesn't make a 23. Likes of Hill and Pearson may come into the mix to increase physicality.

8: Dombrandt hasn't taken his chance. Mercer and T Willis will offer more skill, pace and aggression.

9: Good to see a player given a run of games but JVP failed his audition. Not really surprising as he's still wet behind the ears at club level. Some other options but much of a muchness. Wouldn't be surprised to see Youngs back for RWC.

10. A mess. Suspect Borthwick favours Ford but if Farrell has to play this is the only shirt I want to see him in. Borthwick has a big call to make. Marcus who?

Centres: Something to work with in Lawrence. Shame Daly wasn't available. Just for the RWC maybe a Manu / Lawrence combo - both can play in either position. Slade looks great in a good team, but he's not a horse for the course at the moment. I don't want to see Farrell at 12 again, but suspect we will. Midfield picture as unclear as ever.

Wings: Watson fine. Malins falls short. Arundell will come good but he's not even got to wet behind the ears level with his club yet and all his club rugby has been at FB. Freeman evidently not rated. Looking forward, Radwan has gas, Thorley looks like he's getting back to his best - quick and comes infield looking for work. Maybe back to the future with May. Who knows?

15: Steward did some good stuff but also exposed on occasions. Still young, still learning. Shirt is his for now.
 
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Also I was wrong about the squads...Borthwick can make as many changes as he wants now
Has anyone got a source for the official text regarding this? Would be interesting to read.

BTW hooker ponderers, Harry Thacker still exists 👀
 
Nic Dolly meant to be fit soon.
Honestly given his history with Borthwick wouldn't rule him out depending on how fit he is.

Let's also be real who really is Borthwick gonna swap out?
Even if Borthwick had unlimited changes I don't think his 6N's squad would've looked much different.

If fit I think Kelly will be Borthwick's 12, if not he will go with Ford and Farrell.
 
Nic Dolly meant to be fit soon.
Honestly given his history with Borthwick wouldn't rule him out depending on how fit he is.
Yeah I reckon he'll be there - is LCD due back before the RWC? I know his injury was a bad one
We'll take three hookers and Walker doesn't look to be trusted at all
George, Dolly, Walker or LCD, George, Dolly is my guess
 
Don't forget Blamire. He's fallen a little off the radar But he's working on all aspects of his game and is a powerful carrier with good handling skills etc.

Don't forget at 12 there's other options than Kelly..Seb Atkinson playing well for Gloucester, Ollie Hartley a big until who has the skills aswell coming through at Saracens now and Ojomoh...so post World Cup could be fascinating
 
I make a point of not bothering with post match interviews but I caught a bit of Borthwick's in the car this morning. Let's just say that I hope he's one of those people who are very different in public and behind closed doors.

Whether he likes it or not he sets the mood and the tempo. He doesn't have to be a wise cracking clown, nor go against the obvious evidence but the head guy does have to project something for the players to hook into - guys like Erasmus and Jones (initially) could have got players walking over hot coals for them.

Still early days for Borthwick, but I'll be surprised if his tenure is a long one.
 

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