[2023 Six Nations] England Squad

[Lé Ddanno]

Do we have do that stupid twitter clap thing about Lawes not being a lock any more. Because he isn't.

 

[AlRums]

Do we have do that stupid twitter clap thing about Lawes not being a lock any more. Because he isn't.

At this moment in time he hasn't anything

 

[TRF_Olyy]

#BorthwickOut

 

[Crash Hamster]

I thought Smith and Walker contributed absolutely nothing.

 

[Reiser99]

#BorthwickOut

Tbh we didn't want him in the first place. Definitely not ready for international rugby.

 

[Geordie]

Why Borthwick out?
I disagree.

Start the rebuild now...and free shot at the world Cup.

So who's dropped and who's brought in for the warm up games and world Cup?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

By the numbers since the 2016 6N (I'm not specifically comparing Borthwick vs EJ/implying we should've kept on EJ, but that's about when this group of players started coming through)

Won: 2 - Joint Worst (2018, 2021, 2022)
Points Scored: 100 - Worst
Points Conceded: 135 - Worst
Tries scored: 13 - Third worst (worst was 8 in 2022, second worst was 12 in 2021)
Tries conceded: 18 - Worst (six more than previous worst)

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Why Borthwick out?
I disagree.

It was a joke, we're stuck with him now for better or worse - we'll improve from here, this is our worst Six Nations...ever? Maybe? Worst in the last 2 Six Nations at least,

See how he goes once he's got his Tigers band back together - 2025 would be the first time I'd make a serious assessment of where we're at (unless we go down consistently from here)

So who's dropped and who's brought in for the warm up games and world Cup?

I don't think there'll be that many changes tbh

Ford in for F.Smith
Mercer in for Earl
Kelly in for Marchant (seems far down the pecking order with Lawrence's emergence)
Tom Curry swaps back in for Ben
Obano for Rodd

That's about it

 

[Geordie]

And they've been going backwards for seasons under Jones.

Borthwick will bring us round...I have faith.

 

[BrokenWing]

Shouldn't really see Dombrandt again should we?

 

[Geordie]

It was a joke, we're stuck with him now for better or worse - we'll improve from here, this is our worst Six Nations...ever? Maybe? Worst in the last 2 Six Nations at least,

See how he goes once he's got his Tigers band back together - 2025 would be the first time I'd make a serious assessment of where we're at (unless we go down consistently from here)


I don't think there'll be that many changes tbh

Ford, Mercer and Kelly in
Tom Curry swaps back in for Ben
Obano for Rodd

That's about it

He can make 5 plus any injuries. And I suppose replace any who become unavailable like Ribbans etc.

So LCD, Ribbans are out as they're abroad.

Plus 5 others.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

He can make 5 plus any injuries. And I suppose replace any who become unavailable like Ribbans etc.

So LCD, Ribbans are out as they're abroad.

Plus 5 others.

They're still eligible for the RWC, and then post RWC he's allowed a full rebuild
I just can't see Borthwick throwing caution to the wind and making a lot of changes after this - just doesn't seem that kinda coach

And they've been going backwards for seasons under Jones.

Borthwick will bring us round...I have faith.

Genuine question: Why?
His first season with Tigers was very good but the drop off after was pretty severe

 

[Reiser99]

He'll keep the majority of EJ's squad so that he can't be fully blamed for failing at the world cup.

As for improving, I'm not hopeful. For starters he's already hiring coaches who aren't proven at this level or even European level. He improve Tigers over two seasons, but the quality of the premiership has definitely dropped.

 

[Crash Hamster]

There's genuinely a long way to go before England have a competitive side again. Can't see any hope in the 23 WC.

There's actually a great case for a Jonesesque 'building for the 27 WC' squad selection from here on in.

 

[McTallshort]

It was a joke, we're stuck with him now for better or worse - we'll improve from here, this is our worst Six Nations...ever? Maybe?

Didn't we finish 5th a couple of times under Jones?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Didn't we finish 5th a couple of times under Jones?

Aye, true - I got caught up in my little stats binge above and was focused on solely our performance rather than compared to others

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Jones left a squad with no depth who were really poor at the basics. It's disappointing that Borthwick hasn't turned us round (as quickly as I'd like) but there have been improvements just not all around.

 

[Abraxaz]

England forwards get man handled all around the field, doesn't matter what 9and 10 we play if the forwards cant break the game line.

Plus we need to get grubby, we need to milk penalties like all the other teams do.

 

[Geordie]

Jones left a squad with no depth who were really poor at the basics. It's disappointing that Borthwick hasn't turned us round (as quickly as I'd like) but there have been improvements just not all around.

Surely it's difficult to turn a side around that quickly when Ireland and France are 4 years down the development path and Ireland have 12 leinster players who have been together for about 5 years plus? I still think France was a totally freak result that wouldn't happen if you played it another 20 + times.

And Scotland we could have won on another day..had Farrel kicked his points etc.

Bring players in to fit the jobs better (A proper nuts n bolts powerful lock, a real deal 12 to start with...and things will improve quickly

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Surely it's difficult to turn a side around that quickly when Ireland and France are 4 years down the development path and Ireland have 12 leinster players who have been together for about 5 years plus? I still think France was a totally freak result that wouldn't happen if you played it another 20 + times.

And Scotland we could have won on another day..had Farrel kicked his points etc.

Bring players in to fit the jobs better (A proper nuts n bolts powerful lock, a real deal 12 to start with...and things will improve quickly

It really shows how badly Jones ****** over the side IMO. If he had indeed been building towards the WC, there would be evidence of it and we wouldn't be so far behind. As it is, what many of us suspected turned out to be true, Jones wasn't building anything. There are no basics to build on, no core principles the team are used to, he stripped out everything and replaced it with nothing.