[2023 Six Nations] England Squad

[ncurd]

Sorry that this is in the wrong thread but I wasn't sure where to put it. Im reading Martin Bayfield's autobiography and he talks about the 1995 world cup quarter final victory over Australia and reveals that they sent a spy into the Australian training sessions who revealed to England every single move the Australians used in the game and all the lineout codes. Why has a bigger deal not been made of this??!

Because its not illegal by any standards or measures?

 

[AngloScotsHybrid]

Because its not illegal by any standards or measures?

It may not be illegal but is it ethical? Isnt it cheating?

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

It may not be illegal but is it ethical? Isnt it cheating?

I'm sure it was controversial at the time, if it was known about. But it is just a game and that was 28 years ago.

 

[higgik]

Personally there still needs to be some kind of rule. Not sure about a cap limit. Maybe 3-5 overseas players per squad?

Better still would be a coordinated calendar that separates club from international, also limiting numbers if each played.
Then players could play anywhere and not impact on either.

 

[AngloScotsHybrid]

I'm sure it was controversial at the time, if it was known about. But it is just a game and that was 28 years ago.

It wasn't known about at the time. It was only revealed in Bayfield's 2022 book. In surprised it didnt make bigger headlines.

 

[ncurd]

It may not be illegal but is it ethical? Isnt it cheating?

How is it cheating? Opposition research and preparing for their tactics is all part of the game prep.

 

[AngloScotsHybrid]

How is it cheating? Opposition research and preparing for their tactics is all part of the game prep.

It was a private training session which the 'spy' only got into by pretending to be a friend of the groundsman. If the Aussies had done the same to England there would have been an uproar.

 

[Saintjay]

As an old coach once said "It's not cheating it's improvised winning".

England have in the past alleged they've been spied on by NZ and Wales. Remember the uproar? Nope because there wasn't.

Sports teams have tried to gain advantages for years. Aus in cricket, inflate gate in the NFL. Old news move on.

 

[ncurd]

As an old coach once said "It's not cheating it's improvised winning".

Sports teams have tried to gain advantages for years. Aus in cricket, inflate gate in the NFL. Old news move on.

Even in those there a difference between gaining an advantage and circumventing the rules of the sport.

 

[McTallshort]

It may not be illegal but is it ethical? Isnt it cheating?

No. It's a free world (the bit we live in anyway) the Aussies are serial offenders on this including the 2001 Lions series. I am a big Match fisherman, I was talking to a ladies England international a while back and she said during a world championship there were guys from other countries with binos watching what bait she was using. It's all gamesmanship. Trick is to do it better than your opponent.

 

[Reiser99]

Better still would be a coordinated calendar that separates club from international, also limiting numbers if each played.
Then players could play anywhere and not impact on either.

But that's not the point of the no overseas rule. The point is to keep players in England to keep the domestic game strong. Coordinating the calendar wouldn't change that.

 

[AngloScotsHybrid]

No. It's a free world (the bit we live in anyway) the Aussies are serial offenders on this including the 2001 Lions series. I am a big Match fisherman, I was talking to a ladies England international a while back and she said during a world championship there were guys from other countries with binos watching what bait she was using. It's all gamesmanship. Trick is to do it better than your opponent.

Are you sure you are not Martin Bayfield Tallshort? Lol

 

[McTallshort]

Are you sure you are not Martin Bayfield Tallshort? Lol

Sorry needed on camera will reply later

 

[higgik]

But that's not the point of the no overseas rule. The point is to keep players in England to keep the domestic game strong. Coordinating the calendar wouldn't change that.

Yes, but then the clubs have to get around the table and agree on how to collectively increase revenues, whether that be ringfencing, franchising, revenue sharing, or allowing CVC more control of the direction or lose the players.
Together is better rather than a few sugar daddies fighting over pieces.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Not sure how losing all the players sponsors are interested in and casual fans might actually recognise/tune in to watch to rich overseas clubs will increase revenue tbh

 

[TRF_Olyy]

With Smith getting <20 seconds I would be amazed if he's not dropped for Ford next round

 

[Scotty]

With Smith getting <20 seconds I would be amazing if he's not dropped for Ford next round

Honestly im just so glad Arundell and Smith got on the pitch, would be a double kick in the teeth for them to get no minutes and no cash when named on the bench.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Honestly im just so glad Arundell and Smith got on the pitch, would be a double kick in the teeth for them to get no minutes and no cash when named on the bench.

The cash is the only reason they (and Walker) got on at all.

 

[BrokenWing]

The cash is the only reason they (and Walker) got on at all.

Honestly think I would've told Borthwick to do one.

 

[Reiser99]

I'm not sure how you can come away from that thinking Farrell shouldn't be dropped. A few good tackles and one good inside pass is the woeful. He's completely holding this England side back.