[2023 Six Nations] England Squad

[TRF_Olyy]

Wigglesworth and Walters joining pre-RWC
Last one out at Welford Road turn the lights off!

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Wigglesworth and Walters joining pre-RWC
Last one out at Welford Road turn the lights off!

If you combined Leicester's squad with Exeter's staff then between the two they might actually be able to put a full team together.

 

[Teddington Logic]

Taking all the coaches from high flying Leicester?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Puts to bed evans to England after the 6n's

 

[Saintjay]

Townsend for the Tigers job?

 

[Teddington Logic]

If this wasn't all agreed before hand then if I was Tigers I'd be pretty f'd off with the RFU and SB

 

[Teddington Logic]

Of course it also means no attack coach/philosophy continuity between the 6N and the the World Cup. From a planning perspective that would appear to be up there with one of Baldrick's best

 

[Scotty]

If you combined Leicester's squad with Exeter's staff then between the two they might actually be able to put a full team together.

Walters is strenth and conditioning, what coach is Wiggs? If we could keep evans then i would 100%.

 

[HamJan]

Of course it also means no attack coach/philosophy continuity between the 6N and the the World Cup. From a planning perspective that would appear to be up there with one of Baldrick's best

It says that they're joining pre RWC, which I assume to mean in time for the summer RWC warm up games.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Wigglesworth and Walters joining pre-RWC
Last one out at Welford Road turn the lights off!

Is it just me???

The international game is the pinnacle, right? We have a turnaround job on our hands. We're the richest union, we have a deep player base. We should be attracting top coaching talent, the very top talent.

We have a head coach who loves a spreadsheet and pores over data, but is still in short pants as far as being a head coach is concerned. He wouldn't have been my ideal choice, but I didn't mind (well, that much) as long as he was going to be supported by a strong team. Instead:

His defence coach is a mate who sounds like top banana and is a RL legend. But is pretty much a union virgin......he may become Edwards mark II, but not yet - he still has to learn the game.

And now Wiggles. A good guy but as far as I can see his coaching credentials are a bit of part time at Championship / tier 2 level a bit of player-coaching and 30 seconds as head guy at Tigers. Is he going to replace Evans or work with him?? If replacing that's really disappointing as he was an appointment I was excited by.

When are they, and almost certainly Peel, joining? All I can see is pre RWC so I assume that is post domestic season, giving them precisely no competitive matches before the RWC.

Walters sounds fine. But really this is pretty disappointing.

 

[Crash Hamster]

Looking down the table at starting 12s in the run up to the Six Nations (looked at the last game before players were called into camp, so this isn't necessarily who is first choice - though I can't think of any EQPs that would usually be playing that aren't, other than Atkinson who is long term injured)

Saracens: Taylor (Scotland)
Sale: Tuilagi (England - Not selected)
Exeter: Kata (Tonga)
Northampton: Dingwall (England - Not in EPS)
Gloucester: Kveseladze (Georgia)
Harlequins: Esterhuizen (South Africa)
London Irish: Janse van Rensburg (South Africa)
Leicester: Kelly (England - Injured)
Newcastle: Orlando (Argentina)
Bath: Ojomoh (England - Not in EPS)
Bristol: Lloyd (Wales)

Pretty slim pickings, really:
Tuilagi, Dingwall, Kelly, Ojomoh
Tuilagi is already there and should start vs Italy,
Dingwall, imo, should've been called up for Kelly
Kelly, likely a starter but injured,
Ojomoh bags of potential - hopefully one for the future. Shame that he has Redpath ahead of him at Bath (though with Redpath's injury record there'll be no shortage of game time available). IMO should've gotten the opportunities Will Joseph got last year - 12 is our problem area, not 13

BJvR would be absolutely ideal for England at the moment. Hard runner, defensively sound, he's even a lineout option. Damn those pesky residential qualifications

 

[Saintjay]

Is it just me???

The international game is the pinnacle, right? We have a turnaround job on our hands. We're the richest union, we have a deep player base. We should be attracting top coaching talent, the very top talent.

We have a head coach who loves a spreadsheet and pores over data, but is still in short pants as far as being a head coach is concerned. He wouldn't have been my ideal choice, but I didn't mind (well, that much) as long as he was going to be supported by a strong team. Instead:

His defence coach is a mate who sounds like top banana and is a RL legend. But is pretty much a union virgin......he may become Edwards mark II, but not yet - he still has to learn the game.

And now Wiggles. A good guy but as far as I can see his coaching credentials are a bit of part time at Championship / tier 2 level a bit of player-coaching and 30 seconds as head guy at Tigers. Is he going to replace Evans or work with him?? If replacing that's really disappointing as he was an appointment I was excited by.

When are they, and almost certainly Peel, joining? All I can see is pre RWC so I assume that is post domestic season, giving them precisely no competitive matches before the RWC.

Walters sounds fine. But really this is pretty disappointing.

Who is currently available that would be allowed out of a contract at another club or country. Right here, right now. Nearly all the decent coaches are spoken for and the merry go round will take place after the WC With the Scotland HC job, Leicester HC job up for grabs. As far as I'm aware the RFU are still pleading poverty post Covid. On top of that they have paid out a ton to Eddie Jones and are probably looking at the pending legal battle over concussion.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Who is currently available that would be allowed out of a contract at another club or country. Right here, right now. Nearly all the decent coaches are spoken for and the merry go round will take place after the WC With the Scotland HC job, Leicester HC job up for grabs. As far as I'm aware the RFU are still pleading poverty post Covid. On top of that they have paid out a ton to Eddie Jones and are probably looking at the pending legal battle over concussion.

Flip side is that a lot hangs on the success of the national team - financial, participation etc. Can we afford not to have the best team in place?

It just makes me mad when I see this and we have English coaches like Farrell, Catt and Edwards doing great work with top
opponents.

 

[Reiser99]

Flip side is that a lot hangs on the success of the national team - financial, participation etc. Can we afford not to have the best team in place?

It just makes me mad when I see this and we have English coaches like Farrell, Catt and Edwards doing great work with our opponents.

Definitely think that the England has missed out on some top English coaches. Especially Farrell and Edwards. However, I suspect that has as much to do with EJ as it does the RFU. The complete instability with coaches under Jones means we were never going to keep the best candidates. Borthwick seems to be the only one who really stuck with Jones for a time and who has developed into a future England coach (although I agree he's not ready).

I also think there is a case of Borthwick wanting a coaching setup he's familiar with around him as he has limited time to prepare and so trying to develop coaches and players at the same time is a big ask. I'm not sure it's the right decision, but I can understand it.

However, post world cup the RFU really needs to look at its selection and recruitment policy because we've missed out on some top coaches previously and we can't afford to keep doing so.

 

[HamJan]

Flip side is that a lot hangs on the success of the national team - financial, participation etc. Can we afford not to have the best team in place?

It just makes me mad when I see this and we have English coaches like Farrell, Catt and Edwards doing great work with top
opponents.

It's a dangerous area in between a head coach appointing his own team, one that he's built up a relationship with, and having the alleged best person for the job, who would be appointed by an RFU committee. Borthwick has to be sure of the working dynamics within his coaching team and I have more faith in his judgement than the RFU's.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

It's a dangerous area in between a head coach appointing his own team, one that he's built up a relationship with, and having the alleged best person for the job, who would be appointed by an RFU committee. Borthwick has to be sure of the working dynamics within his coaching team and I have more faith in his judgement than the RFU's.

Totally agreed that it has to be the head coach's choice.

But given Borthwick's pretty raw himself I'd have hoped that he'd have surrounded himself with the strongest possible team and I don't think we have that. Yes he knows, and obviously rates, them but it's not like they're a proven team that have been delivering results year on year at home and in Europe. Who do they look to as the calm experienced head when things get a bit choppy, which they will at some point?

 

[Which Tyler]

Who do they look to as the calm experienced head when things get a bit choppy, which they will at some point?

The #Iceman, obviously

 

[HamJan]

Totally agreed that it has to be the head coach's choice.

But given Borthwick's pretty raw himself I'd have hoped that he'd have surrounded himself with the strongest possible team and I don't think we have that. Yes he knows, and obviously rates, them but it's not like they're a proven team that have been delivering results year on year at home and in Europe. Who do they look to as the calm experienced head when things get a bit choppy, which they will at some point?

All fair points and I was hoping that he would keep Evans rather than go for Wigglesworth tbh. I was genuinely excited with Evans and Sinfield.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yeah it's a shame to lose Evans, though we don't know how happy Quins were to lose him (I know they've released him for the 6N, but how happy would they be to also lose him for pre-season and the start of next? Or permanently?)

Tigers prem winning season they were 6th for tries scored, and from what I recall a lot of those were scored from mauls, and they're 7th this season (Quins were 2nd, and now 3rd)
I mean if we can recreate that setpiece dominance at international level that's great but I don't have much faith

Would be interested to know the length of the assistant's contracts - bringing them in for the RWC makes sense due to the working relationship they already have, building a long term future with that setup I'm more sceptical about

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Yeah it's a shame to lose Evans, though we don't know how happy Quins were to lose him (I know they've released him for the 6N, but how happy would they be to also lose him for pre-season and the start of next? Or permanently?)

Tigers prem winning season they were 6th for tries scored, and from what I recall a lot of those were scored from mauls, and they're 7th this season (Quins were 2nd, and now 3rd)
I mean if we can recreate that setpiece dominance at international level that's great but I don't have much faith

Would be interested to know the length of the assistant's contracts - bringing them in for the RWC makes sense due to the working relationship they already have, building a long term future with that setup I'm more sceptical about

Given the rumors when Borthwick took over was that tigers blocked Walters and Wigglesworth going earlier and the RFU didn't want to pay more for early release I suspect Evans was always viewed as temp