[2022 Six Nations] England vs Wales (26/02/22)

[TRF_Olyy]

I thought Lawes was a pretty poor captain on the weekend tbh - his decision to keep going for the scrum, despite us not exactly having dominance (think the previous scrum was multiple freekicks to Wales and then them retaining the ball easily) and burning down half the card and eventually giving a penalty to Wales, rather than taking the simple 3 and then having 9+mins to attack vs 14 was naive at best

I don't know who else we could pick though, as Curry didn't really stand out as captain the previous two games

I think we've got a number of loud voices in the huddle (Marler, Curry, Youngs, LCD etc.) but no one who really stands out as a proper leader above that

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I feel like so many people are being way to harsh on this England team at the moment, I would say 8 of that starting 15 are relative newbies to the international stage (Steward, Malins, Smith, Randall, Genge, LCD, Dombrandt and Nowell, hes been around but in and out). Then Marchant, Simmonds and a couple of others on the bench.

We are massively in transition at the moment, which could be aimed at EJ not moving players along preemptively over the last year or so, but comparing us to the other home nations who look like there peaking or have very settled squads, I dont think is the way to go.

I think this england team will push both Ireland and France in the final 2 games, they'll get a good autumn series under there belts and then theres no real excuses from next years 6n leading to the WC.

Yours Sincerely,
Eddie Jones Love Child.

Genge, LCD and Nowell all have 30+ caps…..

We'll definitely know more by the year end. Somehow we're 3rd in the world rankings behind RSA and NZ who we play in the Autumn and we've got imminent games against Fra (4th) and Ire (5th). 3 of those 4 games are at HQ and 2 wins would have to be a minimum return to go into WC year with any degree of confidence (FWIW my best case scenario from those games is 2 wins and I wouldn't be shocked if we lost the lot).

 

[Welsh Exile]

Old Nigel's completely unbiased opinion on England's solitary try from his piece in the Torygraph

"You cannot obstruct an opponent from jumping at the lineout, and when you watch the footage back it looks like Itoje did that, before Dombrandt subsequently scored.

Normally, if there was any doubt then the referee would refer to the television match official, and because that incident was a moment of foul play it is covered under the protocol of using the TMO

Even if the officials were not aware of the incident, the TMO would be watching everything in the truck and could intervene. I was surprised that didn't happen, particularly when the Wales players were asking the referee to check for foul play. That would normally trigger a review

I was never one for wanting players to tell me to check something, and would tell them to not come chasing me for potential incidents to be reviewed.

But if the captain or the player concerned did so in the correct manner regarding a particular moment, that would make me question whether they have a point and I would ask the TMO to have a look.

"If it had been checked, then the decision centres on whether Itoje obstructed Beard from jumping at the lineout. I would say Itoje probably did obstruct Beard, which means if it had been checked, I would have been pretty surprised if the try had stood.

"If you did not see the incident yourself as the referee, you would be hoping that your assistants and the TMO would intervene. The smile on Itoje's face said everything, really!

"The reason people will be disappointed is because moments like that are why we have the technology in the game.

"I have seen the comments made by Pivac and he is right to be disappointed and to ask the question why it wasn't checked.

 

[Welsh Exile]

STITCH UP!!!!!!!!

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I wonder if St Nige would like to offer his opinion on the Welsh turnover on their try line being achieved because a Welsh player was (again) on the wrong side of the ruck, or how they collapsed our maul that was going to drive over their line, or how they didn't even get a warning for repeated wrong side of the ruck infringements, or the pre-bind in the lead up to one of the Welsh tries or the quick tap and go leading to a Welsh try not being from the mark whilst England doing the same got pulled back, or the crap Welsh throw that was caught by an England player that would have led to a try being called back, or Wales getting a penalty at the scrum where their prop went straight to his knees but Genge got penalised, despite still being in position and holding his weight, or the numerous not straight throws... Wales got away with absolute murder on their own try line repeatedly.

It was a very poorly reffed game for both sides but it feels like once again it's going to be presented as England getting everything their own way and having the game handed to us. (not saying you are saying this but a certain segment are definitely portraying it that way). Ultimately Adamson should not be reffing at this level. Literally every game he has been in has been a shitfest of inconsistency.

 

[LIONSxv]

STITCH UP!!!!!!!!

Half payback for last year's atrocious and borderline biased refering at the princeipality.
You also have to consider whether Hardies try should of been allowed, given the fact that up until that point he hadn't allowed the quick tap. England were away unimpeded first half , but we're call back twice

 

[Welsh Exile]

Yeah, I think we all agree Adamson was **** for both of us. Meh, not really bothered anyway, we're both average teams at the minute and neither of us are winning the championship (now I've said that England will thrash Ireland and France so blame me Ireland fans for jinxing it if that happens

 

[HamJan]

I wonder if St Nige would like to offer his opinion on the Welsh turnover on their try line being achieved because a Welsh player was (again) on the wrong side of the ruck, or how they collapsed our maul that was going to drive over their line, or how they didn't even get a warning for repeated wrong side of the ruck infringements, or the pre-bind in the lead up to one of the Welsh tries or the quick tap and go leading to a Welsh try not being from the mark whilst England doing the same got pulled back, or the crap Welsh throw that was caught by an England player that would have led to a try being called back, or the numerous not straight throws... Wales got away with absolute murder on their own try line repeatedly.

It was a very poorly reffed game for both sides but it feels like once again it's going to be presented as England getting everything their own way and having the game handed to us. (not saying you are saying this but a certain segment are definitely portraying it that way).

Has anybody actually seen clear footage that Itoje definitely impeded Beard? I was sat behind Elias when he threw in, I've rewatched the game on ITV and flicked through You Tube hoping to find different angles which might suggest that it should have been a penalty against England but can't find anything. Replays show that Wyn Jones seemed to have got his angle wrong to lift Beard effectively, and Elias seemed to be the only Welsh player complaining. Biggar was silent for once, and he was on top whinging form straight from the kick off on Saturday.

I think the ref was poor for both sides tbh, but you have to roll with it in the same was as we had to last year.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Eddie Jones publicly slams Mike Brown for 'disrespectful' comments about Wales

Jones was unimpressed by his former player's assertion not a single Welsh player would get in England's team

www.walesonline.co.uk

Yeah I know the source but it's hilarious for Jones of all people to be saying this given the crap he has come up with over the years (Mike Brown was also talking absolute ******** so agree with what Jones says, just he's a massive hypocrite)

 

[Smurfy]

Half payback for last year's atrocious and borderline biased refering at the princeipality.
You also have to consider whether Hardies try should of been allowed, given the fact that up until that point he hadn't allowed the quick tap. England were away unimpeded first half , but we're call back twice

Hardy tapped behind and through the mark. One of the ones that was called back earlier wasn't in the same postcode as the mark. Having said that, Adamson is the worst referee to ever get an international match.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

To be an international rugby ref. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Has anybody actually seen clear footage that Itoje definitely impeded Beard? I was sat behind Elias when he threw in, I've rewatched the game on ITV and flicked through Netflix hoping to find different angles which might suggest that it should have been a penalty against England but can't find anything. Replays show that Wyn Jones seemed to have got his angle wrong to lift Beard effectively, and Elias seemed to be the only Welsh player complaining. Biggar was silent for once, and he was on top whinging form straight from the kick off on Saturday.

I think the ref was poor for both sides tbh, but you have to roll with it in the same was as we had to last year.

I just watched a clip of it on youtube and agree - it was a crap lift that was the issue

The English and Welsh lines came together, but no more than any other lineout in the game - if Itoje brushing against Beard causes that much of a disruption then he must be significantly stranger than we give him credit for

 

[Jakedood]

I just watched a clip of it on youtube and agree - it was a crap lift that was the issue

The English and Welsh lines came together, but no more than any other lineout in the game - if Itoje brushing against Beard causes that much of a disruption then he must be significantly stranger than we give him credit for

I think a big issue was also the hooker and the "dummy" throwing technique, England and Wales both timed jumps all wrong, England almost went early on first pump, then by jumping across slightly (as always happens) ended up in a tight position, but the welsh lift also very poor and could've been better. Only real infringement for me would have been dummy throw, or closing space but it is understandable with what I counted were 3 dummy pumps?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Old Nigel's completely unbiased opinion on England's solitary try from his piece in the Torygraph

"You cannot obstruct an opponent from jumping at the lineout, and when you watch the footage back it looks like Itoje did that, before Dombrandt subsequently scored.

Normally, if there was any doubt then the referee would refer to the television match official, and because that incident was a moment of foul play it is covered under the protocol of using the TMO

Even if the officials were not aware of the incident, the TMO would be watching everything in the truck and could intervene. I was surprised that didn't happen, particularly when the Wales players were asking the referee to check for foul play. That would normally trigger a review

I was never one for wanting players to tell me to check something, and would tell them to not come chasing me for potential incidents to be reviewed.

But if the captain or the player concerned did so in the correct manner regarding a particular moment, that would make me question whether they have a point and I would ask the TMO to have a look.

"If it had been checked, then the decision centres on whether Itoje obstructed Beard from jumping at the lineout. I would say Itoje probably did obstruct Beard, which means if it had been checked, I would have been pretty surprised if the try had stood.

"If you did not see the incident yourself as the referee, you would be hoping that your assistants and the TMO would intervene. The smile on Itoje's face said everything, really!

"The reason people will be disappointed is because moments like that are why we have the technology in the game.

"I have seen the comments made by Pivac and he is right to be disappointed and to ask the question why it wasn't checked.

I think Beard was obstructed a bit, but then again it didn't really look like the lifters had their act together either.

Didn't really like the way Williams came sliding in knees first then outstretched leg. He got the ball after grounding but wasn't a million miles from Dombrandt's head.

 

[MikeTheNative]

Itoje gave Beard a bit of a nudge. Probably 50/50, wouldn't have been surprised to see it chalked off but I'm fine with it standing. That moment takes away from the reason Wales lost though, again Wales started poorly and gave away too many cheap penalties.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I think Beard was obstructed a bit, but then again it didn't really look like the lifters had their act together either.

Didn't really like the way Williams came sliding in knees first then outstretched leg. He got the ball after grounding but wasn't a million miles from Dombrandt's head.

Yeah as I said earlier in the thread I think it was one of those hat sometimes goes for you or against you. I think you can see him obstructs him slightly but it's not really blatant.

One thing I hate more than cheaters are bad cheaters. My rule is that if you cheat well then well done for getting away with it and I think Itoje was subtle enough that it was maybe just about ok. I don't think there was too much in it. Haven't watched it back though.

 

[Jakedood]

One thing I hate more than cheaters are bad cheaters

Loving this

 

[Mumbles119]

I thought Lawes was a pretty poor captain on the weekend tbh - his decision to keep going for the scrum, despite us not exactly having dominance (think the previous scrum was multiple freekicks to Wales and then them retaining the ball easily) and burning down half the card and eventually giving a penalty to Wales, rather than taking the simple 3 and then having 9+mins to attack vs 14 was naive at best

I don't know who else we could pick though, as Curry didn't really stand out as captain the previous two games

I think we've got a number of loud voices in the huddle (Marler, Curry, Youngs, LCD etc.) but no one who really stands out as a proper leader above that

We all know but are unwilling to voice it…

Ewels will captain

It will be one of those statements about all the behind the scenes work, support and respect he has from the squad.

Disclaimer: I would prefer to stick with developing Curry as captain.

 

[MikeTheNative]

Ben Youngs has been captain for Leicester right? ..................

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Ben Youngs has been captain for Leicester right? ..................

Ford has captained England before

cya l8r Marcus!