[2022 Six Nations] England vs Wales (26/02/22)

[Reiser99]

I've said it plenty of times he shouldn't be near the squad until he has a sustained run of fitness. We know what he can do and if needed parachute him in for the world cup. At the moment it's just a waste of caps that should be used to find a credible alternative for the world cup.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Imo Kelly is the most all round 12 in the prem atm.

Strong carrier and tackler
Good over the ball
Crazy passing game
Clever kicker

 

[Teddington Logic]

Imo Kelly is the most all round 12 in the prem atm

this

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

O'Conor is a good player, but if we're worried that Slade is too lightweight, he is positively crusierweight in comparison.

Atkinson is too old and too slow and Devoto isn't as good as he's made out to be and also spends an awful lot of time out inured.

Kelly or Ojomoh are far better bets IMO.

O'Conor's 102kg (supposedly the same weight as Manu's leaned down to), although you're right that he doesn't necessarily use that weight effectively.

Dan Kelly would be my choice. Really intelligent player with a great passing game and I also didn't realise how big he is until the bath game, but he looks like a very handy ball carrier. Don't think that he'd pair well with Slade though - but could form a really balanced pairing with Marchant.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Fingers crossed this has disrupted England's prep but I think I'm clutching at straws. Still glad he's not playing but must be gutting from a personal point of view.

 

[Scotty]

Imo Kelly is the most all round 12 in the prem atm.

Strong carrier and tackler
Good over the ball
Crazy passing game
Clever kicker

I agree on this, yet i also wonder how Smith and Ojomoh work together as more creative offloading partnership that are keeping defences guessing. Though i cant say i know much about his all round game/defence.

 

[Reiser99]

Personally I wouldn't say Kelly's or Ojomoh's defence is international standard yet. Definitely not consistently.

 

[Jimbo]

O'Conor is a good player, but if we're worried that Slade is too lightweight, he is positively crusierweight in comparison.

Atkinson is too old and too slow and Devoto isn't as good as he's made out to be and also spends an awful lot of time out inured.

Kelly or Ojomoh are far better bets IMO.

Fair points they were off the top of my head, I was more responding to the thought that outside of Manu there have been no real 12s available post 2003, I can't really remember many actual 12s being picked obviously Burrell didn't come off, appreciate Atkinson has had a few injury's of his own but could quite easily have earned some caps as well as Farrell. Ojomo and Kelly both great shouts, would just be nice to have an actual 12 in the mix instead of trying to convert and have every capable to playing multiple positions without actually hugely excelling at any.

 

[TW27BA]

Was pretty pleased with the side named this morning with the exception of Ewels instead of Isweike. Seeing Randall Smith Manu and Slade together promised much, but almost inevitably Manu is broken again. Was he even fit to join the squad in the first place?

So I guess we have to look forward to Slade and Daly which doesn't inspire too much. EJ really has to get his finger out and find 2 or 3 alternatives to use at both 12 and 13 and stick with them. He appears to have seen the light regarding scrum half and has at least blooded two for the future in Randall and Quirke. Another solid tighthead wouldn't go amiss either.

 

[Geordie]

O'Conor is a good player, but if we're worried that Slade is too lightweight, he is positively crusierweight in comparison.

Atkinson is too old and too slow and Devoto isn't as good as he's made out to be and also spends an awful lot of time out inured.

Kelly or Ojomoh are far better bets IMO.

Or Odogwu...? Heavier built.....

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Or Odogwu...? Heavier built.....

Hasn't Odogwu's disciplinary record recently been quite poor?

 

[Scotty]

Or Odogwu...? Heavier built.....

Has Odogwu ever played 12? I know he's played 13 but mostly 14, if he wants to be an England centre he needs consistant time in 1 position IMO.

I really do rate him tbh and position/form permitting id have him in eventually.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Has Odogwu ever played 12? I know he's played 13 but mostly 14, if he wants to be an England centre he needs consistant time in 1 position IMO.

I really do rate him tbh and position/form permitting id have him in eventually.

I've thought about Odogwu at 12 and I'd like to see it given a go. I think he'd be really dangerous there as a jinky runner; kind of reminiscent of Eastmond but with way more power. Obviously he'd need to be playing consistently there for Wasps before considering him as an option there for England though.

 

[Protalus rampart]

Hasn't Odogwu's disciplinary record recently been quite poor?

Off the top of my head he's only had 1 ban from leaving his foot outstretched whilst taking a high ball and making contact with someone's face - seemed completely accidental.

Definitely worth a look though. Already tearing it up for Wasps again having just come back from injury.

 

[Which Tyler]

EJ really has to get his finger out and find 2 or 3 alternatives to use at both 12 and 13 and stick with them.

you mean, how many of those "2 or 3" would be taken up with Farrell, Tuilagi, Slade, Marchant & Lawrence?

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

you mean, how many of those "2 or 3" would be taken up with Farrell, Tuilagi, Slade, Marchant & Lawrence?

Irony being that none of those are actually 12s. I get Manu does a very good job there but the rest not so much.

 

[spartan32]

Agree with a lot of all this. I think it's fair to say that Slade is a nailed on asset now, and he'll be wearing the 13 shirt if fit and there's someone to wear 12. We need to stop looking for another Manu. The mans a freak (when fit) and there isn't anyone in England (maybe look to poach another islander?) who has his attributes. We do need a big lump who can Bosch it up though or run those dummy lines and fix defences. I felt that one of the reasons we struggled in the Scotland game, even with all the possession, was because we just moved the ball left and right and all the Scots had to do was drift with it, being as there was no threat of anything coming through the middle. I don't even think the player has to be super skilled. A Jamie Roberts type character for example. There's other decent ball handlers ad kickers on the pitch to make up for any deficiencies. The lad just has to be a fast unit, who can catch, run a line, smash in the tackle and force defences to commit 2 or more men. There has to be at least one 12 in the prem who qualifies for England to fit that bill?!

 

[spartan32]

Anyway, enough of what the future may bring. Big game tomorrow. General consensus seems to be England are favourites. Not sure how true that is? I guess we have home advantage, but other than that I think it's a tough one to call. Wales will no doubt feel confident after turning over Scotland, and we didn't exactly cloth ourselves in glory against Italy, other than holding them scoreless. That being said I feel like the lads have it in them to get the job done. Having Randall start has given me hope, and Lawes being back I think will make a difference. The pack look solid, we've got a decent 15, and Smith always has it in him to cast a little magic. Hoping for a dry day, a packed HQ, and a bloody good game!

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

We need to stop looking for another Manu. The mans a freak (when fit) and there isn't anyone in England (maybe look to poach another islander?) who has his attributes. We do need a big lump who can Bosch it up though or run those dummy lines and fix defences. the tackle and force defences to commit 2 or more men.

You didn't actually think Binny had been dropped did you?? He's just being rewired……

 

[BPM]

I've thought about Odogwu at 12 and I'd like to see it given a go. I think he'd be really dangerous there as a jinky runner; kind of reminiscent of Eastmond but with way more power. Obviously he'd need to be playing consistently there for Wasps before considering him as an option there for England though.

In theory it could work, but given Wasps have signed a burger Odendaal to do exactly that job, I wouldn't expect to see it.

Kelly looks the real deal to me. He's not Tuilagi (no one is) but has a really well rounded skill set and seems to be getting better week-on-week.

Leftfield, but I wonder whether Tom Hendrickson might get a bit more attention if he moved clubs. He's usually very good when I say him play, but he's very much a back-up player at Chiefs. As a hard running 12 who can play a bit too, I'm surprised no-one's looked at him for a starting spot.