[2021 Six Nations] Wales vs England (27/02/21)

[munstermuffin]

Crazy day for refs.

Ireland get a try that even Stevie Wonder saw was clear and TMO says play away nothing to see.

Then Wales get a try for blatant knock on. I know some say 50/50 but watch replays. It is forward momentum, he never had control and lost ball. No argument it is knock on per rules.
The first try the law states if there is water carriers (not medical) on field the game shouldn't proceed. The ref missed that

 

[ncurd]

Reminds me of the world cup warm up game where Wales got a try with England down to 13 because the ref allows Wales to continue the game mid HIA transfer, so an extra English player was off the pitch and the ref refused to let the English HIA replacement on the field.

Just checked it, IT WAS THE SAME ******* REF! This stupid ******* needs to be investigated.

Wait you kidding me?

I was about to post to give Farrell some rarely earned credit from me and learning from that incident hence him asking about time off to make sure his basis was covered and the it's the same ref and he just pulls the same damn stunt?

I know this happens behind closed doors but the RFU have got launch a serious complaint against this guy now it's happened twice.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I never heard him say time off in the first place but the clock did stop but at the end of the day the ref never indicated whether he was taking the 3 points (which England obviously assumed we were) and are given 24 seconds to talk to the team.

All Farrell needed to do was set the defensive line and shout "discipline" at his team (even though it was him that gave the pen away) when I first watched it I thought you were really hard done by but 24 seconds is a decent time especially as you knew the ref never indicated the 3 points was going to be taken.

That's completely beside the point, England thought they had time to have the captain talk and would be warned when time was going to come back one (as is usual procedure). The ref only told the Welsh side that time was coming on, he did not tell England and did not tell them to end the huddle. That is not on. This is the same ref who constantly penalised us against Scotland and who, in the world cup warm ups, sent an English player off for an HIA but then refused to let his replacement come on the field, resulting in England being 2 men down.

This is beyond incompetence, this is a running theme with him. Not just marginal decisions going against us but him blatantly interfering to help our opposition, even to the extent he keeps an HIA replacement off the field which then needed WR to step in and adjust the laws so he couldn't do it again!

 

[Sir-Fon]

At the end of the day I'm sure we would all agree that the better side won.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Wait you kidding me?

I was about to post to give Farrell some rarely earned credit from me and learning from that incident hence him asking about time off to make sure his basis was covered and the it's the same ref and he just pulls the same damn stunt?

I know this happens behind closed doors but the RFU have got launch a serious complaint against this guy now it's happened twice.

Different instances but yes, both times time was off and he blew time on to benefit Wales, in the world cup warm ups it was done mid HIA substitution so we only had 13 men on the field rather than 14 (we had a yellow card at the same time) This is the second time in as many years he has arbitrarily ended time off against England without informing the English players which has then resulted in a try. He needs to be investigated. As far as I can see, we have never won a game he has reffed and in every one the penalty count has been heavily stacked against us. Considering our average win % over this same time, the fact we have 0% with a specific ref and a massively increased penalty count is worthy of investigation. This ******* is biased.

 

[ncurd]

At the end of the day I'm sure we would all agree that the better side won.

Yes and no.

Yes in that if both trys were legitimate it accurate regard of the display of both teams.

No in that those 14 points put England under pressure they would of never been under and this we never saw who was actually the better side of the match had played out had it should.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I never heard him say time off in the first place

 

[ncurd]

Different instances but yes, both times time was off and he blew time on to benefit Wales, in the world cup warm ups it was done mid HIA substitution so we only had 13 men on the field rather than 14 (we had a yellow card at the same time) This is the second time in as many years he has arbitrarily ended time off against England without informing the English players which has then resulted in a try. He needs to be investigated. As far as I can see, we have never won a game he has reffed and in every one the penalty count has been heavily stacked against us.

Yup but in both instances England (or any other side) wouldn't have legitimate reasons to think a quick one could be taken. Like these are the only two incidents I can think of in the entire time I've watched rugby where a quick one wasn't taken mere seconds after the ref blew the whilst for the penalty.

Certainly no ref has ever called time off (for players leaving the field or whatever) and not allowed the defence to set themselves before calling time back on.

 

[Sir-Fon]

Different instances but yes, both times time was off and he blew time on to benefit Wales, in the world cup warm ups it was done mid HIA substitution so we only had 13 men on the field rather than 14 (we had a yellow card at the same time) This is the second time in as many years he has arbitrarily ended time off against England without informing the English players which has then resulted in a try. He needs to be investigated. As far as I can see, we have never won a game he has reffed and in every one the penalty count has been heavily stacked against us.

Right so he dislikes England so much he would prefer Wales to win even though Wales and his home nation are the only sides in contention for a Grand Slam .

 

[theVersatile]

In fairness, Itoje actually being penalised for his antics does account for the increased penalty count...

But wow, whatever about the first try - he made a decision and he was never going to go back on it (regardless of whether or not he should've made that decision in the first place). He actually had the chance to review the LRZ knock on multiple times and still ruled a try. Bizarre.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Right so he dislikes England so much he would prefer Wales to win even though Wales and his home nation are the only sides in contention for a Grand Slam .

I don't know what his reasoning is but this is now 2 distinct occassions he has told England time was off, 1 for an HIA, and then blown time on to benefit our opposition without giving any warning to England.

Simple question, do you think a ref should allow play to continue mid HIA change so the player has gone off for an HIA but their replacement is not yet on the field? If no then you agree that this ref has ****** England.
Do you think a ref should be allowed to tell the England captain to talk to his team and tell him time is off yet the second the captain has the team together for a talk, with no warning, he blows time on after telling the opposition but not England that that is what he's going to do?

You believe this is a fair try?

 

[Ospervat]

Bottom line...
Did the onfield officials and TMO have a bad day?
Hell yes! The level of officiating in this 6N has been woeful. Today's performance was arguably the worst so far. There is no excuse for it. They are well paid professionals with the benefit of technology to assist. Get it right.

Did the poor officiating determine the final outcome.
Thankfully no!
24-24 with 15 minutes to go.
Wales were the better team in the final quarter. England's discipline was atrocious.

Fair result 16-0.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Different instances but yes, both times time was off and he blew time on to benefit Wales, in the world cup warm ups it was done mid HIA substitution so we only had 13 men on the field rather than 14 (we had a yellow card at the same time) This is the second time in as many years he has arbitrarily ended time off against England without informing the English players which has then resulted in a try. He needs to be investigated. As far as I can see, we have never won a game he has reffed and in every one the penalty count has been heavily stacked against us. Considering our average win % over this same time, the fact we have 0% with a specific ref and a massively increased penalty count is worthy of investigation. This ******* is biased.

He's just incompetent, not biased. He absolutely rode Leinster v Saracens in the QF last year which quickly kills any claim of anti-English sentiment imo. Ireland have less than a 30% win record with Wayne Barnes and plenty of big odd to bad calls among them games, it's frustrating but it happens.

 

[TobesHodges]

If anything this 6N has shown how badly we miss a big ball runner (Tuilagi) in midfield to give us the platform and gain line success within those first 3 phases off set piece, we rely so heavily on that to get ourselves set to kick well for territory and put pressure on line outs etc.
I feel like teams have put so much emphasis on being strong under the high ball against us, which means we just have so limited options. I'm not sure what answer is because a full restructure of the way England play isn't going to happen because one player is out (Tuilagi), but sadly I just can't see any other way unless we bring in very new faces and ideas onto the pitch I guess, but that doesn't seem like EJ style..

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Agree mate apologies gone and forgotten you'll not hear from me again got carried away take care everyone and stay stay healthy apologies again not my environment.

One post you said.

 

[ncurd]

He's just incompetent, not biased. He absolutely rode Leinster v Saracens in the QF last year which quickly kills any claim of anti-English sentiment imo. Ireland have less than a 30% win record with Wayne Barnes and plenty of big odd to bad calls among them games, it's frustrating but it happens.

This one's a bit maddening though to get essentially the same bad call from the same referee twice. It's case of now any defence playing with refereeing has to always be set even with a player having a broken leg and being stretchered off because he might just start the match for shits and giggles.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

He's just incompetent, not biased. He absolutely rode Leinster v Saracens in the QF last year which quickly kills any claim of anti-English sentiment imo. Ireland have less than a 30% win record with Wayne Barnes and plenty of big odd to bad calls among them games, it's frustrating but it happens.

Sorry but 0% against actual opposition who pose a challenge (Italy just don't) goes beyond incompetence in my books. At a time when a team has 70-80% win ratio over multiple years but with a specific ref has a non-Italy win % of 0, that isn't incompetence, that is bias. It is so far against the trend that the probability of it happening by chance is likely extremely low. also in our games where he refs our penalty count is way higher than our average. This goes beyond Ireland with Barnes, this is literally is becomes impossible for us to beat any half decent side with him as a ref as we get reffed out of the game.

2 time off / time on cases within 2 years against the same team when he has not had that situation with any other team? Sorry, not buying it. That is something fully in his control and fully within his ability to pull back if he made a mistake, he did not do it either time. I mean FFS world rugby had to change the law on HIA to not allow play to resume until the replacement is on the field because of the bullshit this ref pulled on us and now 2 years later he is again pulling bullshit with telling 1 side and not the other when time is on, both times it's been England and under him we haven't beaten a single T1 nation. That is so against the grain it just cannot be called incompetence. The ******* ******* is biased as hell.

 

[bushytop]

This one's a bit maddening though to get essentially the same bad call from the same referee twice. It's case of now any defence playing with refereeing has to always be set even with a player having a broken leg and being stretchered off because he might just start the match for shits and giggles.

Sorry but 0% against actual opposition who pose a challenge (Italy just don't) goes beyond incompetence in my books. At a time when a team has 70-80% win ratio over multiple years but with a specific ref has a non-Italy win % of 0, that isn't incompetence, that is bias. It is so far against the trend that the probability of it happening by chance is likely extremely low. also in our games where he refs our penalty count is way higher than our average. This goes beyond Ireland with Barnes, this is literally is becomes impossible for us to beat any half decent side with him as a ref as we get reffed out of the game.

So even if it wasn't you two in particular, I guarantee you that 'other' English posters would be queuing up to rationalise BOTH of those tries if they were scored by English players (for the record, I'm VERY surprised that both of them were allowed).

 

[Sir-Fon]

I don't know what his reasoning is but this is now 2 distinct occassions he has told England time was off, 1 for an HIA, and then blown time on to benefit our opposition without giving any warning to England.

Simple question, do you think a ref should allow play to continue mid HIA change so the player has gone off for an HIA but their replacement is not yet on the field? If no then you agree that this ref has ****** England.
Do you think a ref should be allowed to tell the England captain to talk to his team and tell him time is off yet the second the captain has the team together for a talk, with no warning, he blows time on after telling the opposition but not England that that is what he's going to do?

You believe this is a fair try?

No of course I don't think play should continue for HIA, but I simply don't believe that this or any top ref is anti any nation. England had the rub of the green against Italy and these things happen. Today we Wales were fortunate to have some dubious decisions go our way. But at the end of the day we were the better side just like England were against Italy.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

So even if it wasn't you two in particular, I guarantee you that 'other' English posters would be queuing up to rationalise BOTH of those tries if they were scored by English players (for the record, I'm VERY surprised that both of them were allowed).

Really dude? There might be some gloating about getting away with it, but when Jiffy -JIFFY - is questioning the legitimacy of a Welsh score, something's up.