[2021 Six Nations] Wales vs England (27/02/21)

[TRF_Olyy]

Still having Kruis around would solve so many of England's current problems IMO. The more I think about it the weirder it seems that he left - he could've comfortably made it to the next RWC.

Said he didn't want to play for an English club that wasn't Sarries - I think he's only in Japan for one season so hopefully he'll come straight back in next year

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Still having Kruis around would solve so many of England's current problems IMO. The more I think about it the weirder it seems that he left - he could've comfortably made it to the next RWC.

Can't blame him for not wanting to play in the Champ though, especially with hindsight given that only Billy has played outside of internationals for, what, 5 months?

 

[Not Eddie Jones]

Heh, thought you would have more given your statement about forcing changes, etc.

Losing games forces changes. Winning teams tend not to change overly much. Lose at home to Scotland for the first time in 38 years and a few weeks later give up 40 points (when was the last time an England team did that!?) and a bonus point to a mediocre Wales side and doubling down is no longer an option.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Can't blame him for not wanting to play in the Champ though, especially with hindsight given that only Billy has played outside of internationals for, what, 5 months?

I understand not wanting to play in the Champ; it's the leaving England altogether part that I don't quite get. Tighthead locks who are legitimately very good rugby players and great leaders are hard to come by, I struggle to believe that he didn't have a good loan deal on the table.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

They haven't played any club rugby, so they're badly out of form.

But it didn't take a rocket scientist to work out the probability of that.

Jones would have been given a fairly free pass if he'd stood down some / all of them from the tournament. It would have been perfectly rational and given a legitimate chance to have a proper look at others who could scarcely have done any worse. Instead we're getting poor performances, poor results, a culture of sinecure and several back ups who we still don't have any real clue if they can cut it or not.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

I understand not wanting to play in the Champ; it's the leaving England altogether part that I don't quite get. Tighthead locks who are legitimately very good rugby players and great leaders are hard to come by, I struggle to believe that he didn't have a good loan deal on the table.

Fair point. And he's no spring chicken, so it wasn't a development decision. Maybe he just really likes hentai.

 

[Not Eddie Jones]

We have many problems but a consistent one has been discipline.

They flashed up that Itoje was penalised 5 times today - maybe not all valid, but rightly or wrongly he invariably attracts referee attention. That takes him to 10 in 3 matches. Anyone else with those stats would have their place in jeopardy. He's been playing OK but not exactly setting the world on fire.

Now any hope of the ***le has gone it would send a strong message to bench him.

And I called it that an early Itoje charge down spelt trouble

Go you!

Itoje today had pretty much a whole third of our total penalty count. And he still did a lot of good things.

 

[Rinkadink]

Losing games forces changes. Winning teams tend not to change overly much. Lose at home to Scotland for the first time in 38 years and a few weeks later give up 40 points (when was the last time an England team did that!?) and a bonus point to a mediocre Wales side and doubling down is no longer an option.

You say losing games forces changes but as evidenced by the Scotland loss nothing happened aside from a reinforcing/doubling down. You can trace back to no changes post/RWC final really (and even before that).

I think truly great teams will make changes continuously.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I understand not wanting to play in the Champ; it's the leaving England altogether part that I don't quite get. Tighthead locks who are legitimately very good rugby players and great leaders are hard to come by, I struggle to believe that he didn't have a good loan deal on the table.

He said he's been eyeing up a season in Japan for a while - so it coinciding with the season in the championship was just the heavens aligning for him really
If Sarries get promoted I imagine he'll be back there next season - especially as his CBD company is skyrocketing atm and it'll be tough to run that if he's in Japan long-term

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

We need mass changes, but alas Jones will play the same team and we will still suck.
Really want to get rid of Jones now.

 

[TheSaffycen]

He said he's been eyeing up a season in Japan for a while - so it coinciding with the season in the championship was just the heavens aligning for him really
If Sarries get promoted I imagine he'll be back there next season

I really hope so, England, Saracens and probably the lions could use him


Just realised the lions is this year, guess he could still be picked but playing in Japan makes it less likely?

 

[Not Eddie Jones]

But it didn't take a rocket scientist to work out the probability of that.

Jones would have been given a fairly free pass if he'd stood down some / all of them from the tournament. It would have been perfectly rational and given a legitimate chance to have a proper look at others who could scarcely have done any worse. Instead we're getting poor performances, poor results, a culture of sinecure and several back ups who we still don't have any real clue if they can cut it or not.

I agree with most of that. However, the encouraging thing today was that the team kept coming back and coming back until they got it to 24-all. The discouraging thing was they then blew it big time. It feels like they're just a few pieces short. Not many, just a few. A lot of good things are there, they just need to find those extra gears/players/smarts/leadership or whatever to push them on to being a top team.

I must admit, I'm remarkably unbothered by this defeat. I usually hate England losing in any match, but it feels like a positive somehow. A watershed even. A Rubicon. Then again, I am on my second can and I'm a complete lightweight.

 

[Not Eddie Jones]

You say losing games forces changes but as evidenced by the Scotland loss nothing happened aside from a reinforcing/doubling down. You can trace back to no changes post/RWC final really (and even before that).

I think truly great teams will make changes continuously.

Scotland was one loss in 9. Losses happen to the best sides. Even the All-Blacks lose once a year. Wales is now 2 losses in 3. Different kettle of fish I think.

Yes, truly great teams change continuously, but we're talking about England, remember?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Looking at our remaining games, I don't feel confident about beating Ireland or France...

It's 2018 all over again. the championship is lost to us now, there is nothing to be gained from playing the same players again. If we have the same starters with the same subs who get no significant game time and then our discipline is as bad as ever it would strongly imply Jones has to go. A coach cannot afford to be this stubborn. He keeps saying he doesn't prepare the players properly. Well the question needs to be put to him when he says that again, if he is repeatedly not preparing the players properly then why is he still coaching them?

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Looking at our remaining games, I don't feel confident about beating Ireland or France...

It's 2018 all over again.

I don't feel confident of beating England so it definitely isn't 2018.

 

[Sir-Fon]

The two so called controversial tries were awarded by neutral official after they had looked at the slow motion replay.. If a player fumbles the ball but catches it before it has hit the ground or in todays case an opposition player, it is not a knock-on. What cost England the game today was poor discipline and not defending quick penalties, schoolboy errors by anybody's standards.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

He said he's been eyeing up a season in Japan for a while - so it coinciding with the season in the championship was just the heavens aligning for him really
If Sarries get promoted I imagine he'll be back there next season - especially as his CBD company is skyrocketing atm and it'll be tough to run that if he's in Japan long-term

Yeah think he fell in love with the place during the RWC. Long said he was the best of our locks.

Up front we also missed the physicality that Underhill and Lawes bring. And LCD too, dropping him was a poor decision.

Behind, Ford and May look shadows of their former selves - both can be world class. And Daly still isn't a FB - he isn't a bad player, just a rusty, bad FB with shot confidence.

 

[Not Eddie Jones]

Curious to know though: how do Welsh posters on here feel about Wales' form? While 3 wins is 3 wins, there have been an awful lot of opposition penalties involved in those 3 wins. Do you feel Wales are making progress under Pivac?

 

[Not Eddie Jones]

We need mass changes, but alas Jones will play the same team and we will still suck.
Really want to get rid of Jones now.

Do we really need mass changes? A few changes, certainly, but mass? Much of the team is young and much of it is talented.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I agree with most of that. However, the encouraging thing today was that the team kept coming back and coming back until they got it to 24-all. The discouraging thing was they then blew it big time. It feels like they're just a few pieces short. Not many, just a few. A lot of good things are there, they just need to find those extra gears/players/smarts/leadership or whatever to push them on to being a top team.

I must admit, I'm remarkably unbothered by this defeat. I usually hate England losing in any match, but it feels like a positive somehow. A watershed even. A Rubicon. Then again, I am on my second can and I'm a complete lightweight.

No "just" about it. Jones has singularly failed to get a grip on the between the ears / lack of leadership problems that have haunted this team for years.