[2021 Six Nations] England Squad

[TRF_Olyy]

Do we think Thacker is still on the radar? Despite his size etc, even just as a 'summer tour' player ?

I wouldn't have him anywhere near - too small and setpiece nowhere near the standard required

Would be good fun in a Barbarians game or something, but not proper test level

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Harry Thacker
27
5'8
93kg
Literally the perfect Eddie Jones Hooker.................

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Harry Thacker
27
5'8
93kg
Literally the perfect Eddie Jones Hooker.................

Surprised Jones hasn't tried him at 13 with those stats.

 

[Wendigo7]

Any reason why Marcus Smith isn't being looked at??

 

[MarkyH]

Eddie Jones is the reason

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Have there been any players that have actually graduated from Eddie's "apprentice" program?
Or does he just use it as an excuse to write off players early on in their career and never look at them again with the excuse that he's had them in camp in the past and they weren't the finished deal yet?

I know there's been Smith and Redpath in it
A.Mitchell is still knocking about but extremely unlikely to get game time this series
Who else has there been? Umaga?


Edit:
Mercer was in it, so he goes in with the Smith and Redpath as discarded-before-hitting-form

Ibitoye probably worth a cap at some point,
Sam Moore was only there to keep Wales at bay

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Mercer regularly keeps Faletau on the bench - by merit.
When he broke through he believed his own hype, and was underpowered to where he though he was - but that's simply not the case anymore.

Agree with the gist of what you're saying but this is pretty fanciful. I don't know what you consider to be regular but since the COVID restart Faletau's appeared on the Bath bench once. The two have featured in Bath 23s together 8 times since the restart, 6 times having started together, once with Mercer starting and Faletau benching, once the reverse.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Faletau hasn't exactly been available for Bath a lot during the last 2 years either.

 

[Jashay]

Have there been any players that have actually graduated from Eddie's "apprentice" program?
Or does he just use it as an excuse to write off players early on in their career and never look at them again with the excuse that he's had them in camp in the past and they weren't the finished deal yet?

I know there's been Smith and Redpath in it
A.Mitchell is still knocking about but extremely unlikely to get game time this series
Who else has there been? Umaga?


Edit:
Mercer was in it, so he goes in with the Smith and Redpath as discarded-before-hitting-form

Ibitoye probably worth a cap at some point,
Sam Moore was only there to keep Wales at bay

Josh Hodge was on it for sure. EJ seems pretty intermittent as to whether he actually calls the bag-holders apprentices or not, though.

I could probably make an argument that Ben Earl was such an unnamed apprentice: he was selected in 2018 and 2019 before getting his first cap in 2020. He's also the only one I can think of that's been in multiple camps without getting capped and now actually seems to be in favour.

Was quite surprised to see that Jonny Hill was involved back in 2018. Dunn too. Nathan Earle was involved a lot and then vanished. I feel like Mallinder might have been one too?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Josh Hodge was on it for sure. EJ seems pretty intermittent as to whether he actually calls the bag-holders apprentices or not, though.

I could probably make an argument that Ben Earl was such an unnamed apprentice: he was selected in 2018 and 2019 before getting his first cap in 2020. He's also the only one I can think of that's been in multiple camps without getting capped and now actually seems to be in favour.

Was quite surprised to see that Jonny Hill was involved back in 2018. Dunn too. Nathan Earle was involved a lot and then vanished. I feel like Mallinder might have been one too?

It does seem like being in the apprentice program means you are odds on to not be in the senior squad, which is pretty ridiculous. Add that to the list of Jones woefully mismanaging peoples expectations... It happens so frequently it's almost like he gets a perverse kick out of dangling to offer of England caps in front of players before snatching it away.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Cant argue that a Billy on top form is a lethal weapon, but i do think he needs to be a lot better at looking after his own fitness levels and weight. Extended breaks always seem to have him coming back over sized, and if he lacks the self motivation there, thats not good

At the moment he looks like a horse drawn WW1 field gun when the rest of the world's gone laser guided

 

[klitarris]

I sat down and watched the 2015 France 6N game (the high scoring one) with my 6 year old the other day. He enjoyed it but got a bit fidgety and lacking in attention in the second half. Tbh I think he did pretty well!

Anyway, three main things struck me watching it. Firstly we have come a hell of a long way since Robshaw and Haskell on the flanks. Not knocking them particularly and they both had some great games during some pretty good times for England, but compare our flanker options now to then and we're in a pretty good place.

Secondly, Billy used to actually run at people without checking just before taking contact. I don't know why he's started doing it, but in the Wales match I genuinely don't think he took contact once without checking just before and losing some of his speed. Maybe he is slightly changing direction and going for the shoulders instead of straight in. If so then fair enough, but I reckon he is too big to be agile enough to really change direction quickly enough to make that an effective tactic.

Thirdly, Youngs used to snipe around the rucks a lot, which kept defences honest and consequently freed up a bit of space further out. He doesn't do that any more (ok, he got a try doing exactly that against Wales but that was the exception rather than the rule) which is a shame. It may be that defences are that much tighter anyway (France's defence was pretty shocking that day) in which case sniping round the fringes would lead to more harm than good, but it would be nice to see him do it a bit more.

 

[Wichita]

Major changes in the English team: I understand from secret sources that after hours of brainstorming and an heated exchange with the technical team, EJ was initially reluctant, but has finally agreed to make an essential change to the English team that will challenge the French world domination next Saturday. Farrell will change two studs on his left boot in order to get more grip when challenging the referee's decisions. We all understand how much this decision calls into question all his team design work for the previous four years, but this could definitely be a game changer!
On the other side, big changes as well: Galthié has had a tactical meeting with the French team and declared that whoever shall be caught eating a waffle either inside or outside the training camp will be sent back home right away. Galthié also confirmed that since he has no external commitment this week, he will stay in the training camp and dedicate most of his time to make sure those guidelines are strictly adhered to.
Enough to send all bookmakers in a frenzy as this will clearly reshuffle all the decks for Saturday.

 

[Crash Hamster]

I've decided that I can keep quiet no longer... long time lurker, first time poster...

I have been amazed that Youngs is still considered England's premier scrum half. I'm not sure if, all things being equal, he even makes the Leicester 23 at the moment. Van Poortvliet and Wigglesworth are both ahead of him.

I also share the general frustration with Jones' lack of flexibility. He had a free shot this 6N; he could've announced he wasn't picking any players not playing regularly for their clubs, picked a non-Saracens side and if our only win was against Italy would it have been any worse than it is already?

There's much talk about Jones having credit in the bank, but when people in high profile jobs make high profile mistakes, that credit evaporates pretty quickly.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

have more issue with that in that I've heard absolutely nothing from camp about it being unhappy, other than that they weren't smiling and laughing when they lost (I think he made the comment post scotland game?)

I'm probably late to address this point but, why would you hear aboutit ? Unless you're actually in camp, in which case leaking this sort of thing (ignoring Burt's Daily Mail happy leaker) is a sure way to suddenly find yourself outside of camp.

Given that a good portion of the camp leadership comprises out of form Sarries desperate to play themselves into something approaching form, I'd think the players aren't necessarily going to squeal.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

I've decided that I can keep quiet no longer... long time lurker, first time poster...

I have been amazed that Youngs is still considered England's premier scrum half. I'm not sure if, all things being equal, he even makes the Leicester 23 at the moment. Van Poortvliet and Wigglesworth are both ahead of him.

Youngs hasn't been a problem this tournament. Agree that other 9s need to be looked at. Not keen on one of those 9s sounding like he should be playing at Sale tbh.

Viz player reviews:
Marler - kudos for deciding against it
Genge - Not good enough
Mako - needed a game to get up to speed but still a bit ropey
Obano - Eddie'd
LCD - Eddie'd
George - a shadow of his pukka pie
Dunn - Dunn Dunn Duuuuuuunn
Sinckler - decent
Stuart - Eddie'd
Itoje - ref marked
Hill - meh. You can't Exeter at int'l level. A perverse (possibly Welsh(?) part of me wants Baxter to coach Eng to prove this point.
Wilson - not very Wilson
Curry - what can he do when 7 other members of the pack are being shunt
Binny - Bunny

Youngs - fine
Robson - No

Ford - see the pack and the kicking
May - is May
Farr.. He's in the squad because of Ireland's current head coach and that's all.
Slade - Curry'd because of Ireland's head coach
Lawrence - Eddie'd AND Curry'd
Watson - is Watson
Daly - is, alas, Daly.

 

[Wendigo7]

Hartley on rugbypass is pretty revealing.

He basically said this "Unless, it's Jones' idea and Jones believes he's in control and correct and will look good he won't do it."

So they went on to ask about Sam Simmonds after Jerome Kaino said he should be playing for England easily. Hartley basically said "the more you ask, the less it will happen. Basically forget it. It has to be him and he has to think it's his idea!"

Roberts then went on to suggest he has to let his ego go and Hartley shrugged. I mean this is where we are at basically.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Not keen on one of those 9s sounding like he should be playing at Sale tbh

Pffffffft everyone's signing tons of Saffers now, and we've signed none for next season - think Tigers announced three more today?

Van Poortvliet is from Norfolk anyway (with a Dutch great, great grandfather)

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Poortvliet looks seriously good.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Poortvliet looks seriously good.

Look forward to seeing him in 2024 then.