[2021 Rugby Championship] Round 3 Australia v South Africa (12/9/2021)

[TRF_stormer2010]

Australia
15 Tom Banks, 14 Andrew Kellaway, 13 Len Ikitau, 12 Samu Kerevi, 11 Marika Koroibete, 10 Quade Cooper, 9 Tate McDermott, 8 Rob Valetini, 7 Michael Hooper (captain), 6 Lachlan Swinton, 5 Matt Philip, 4 Izack Rodda, 3 Allan Alaalatoa, 2 Folau Fainga'a, 1 Angus Bell

Substitutes: 16 Feleti Kaitu'u, 17 James Slipper, 18 Taniela Tupou, 19 Rob Leota, 20 Pete Samu, 21 Nic White, 22 Reece Hodge, 23 Jordan Petaia


South Africa
15 Willie le Roux, 14 Sbu Nkosi, 13 Lukhanyo Am, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Makazole Mapimpi, 10 Handre Pollard, 9 Faf de Klerk, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Franco Mostert, 6 Siya Kolisi (captain), 5 Lood de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Bongi Mbonambi, 1 Steven Kitshoff

Substitutes: 16 Malcolm Marx, 17 Ox Nche, 18 Vincent Koch, 19 Marco van Staden, 20 Kwagga Smith, 21 Jasper Wiese, 22 Herschel Jantjies, 23 Damian Willemse

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Good to see Vermeulen and De Klerk back with Jantjies on the bench also back from injury. Will probably take some time to get back to 100% but you have to start somewhere.

 

[unrated]

I hope we rotate the whole squad next game. First try and beat the Aussies in their backyard which is very rare and difficult to do and then rotate, completely different team, let this rotation start preparing for the first All Blacks game.

 

[unrated]

What more can we say about this starting xv? Consistent and demonic on defence. Not too much to talk about for now. Need to beat Australia convincingly this weekend. They will be hurting from the All Blacks and will be battle hardened. Many people also feel they have the potential to unlock our defence. So i am glad that we probably will be chalenged to the core by Australia, its going to be close IMO.

We need to beat the All Blacks to stake a claim for consistent Rugby Chanpionship success. Its not good for the competition if NZ keeps on winning it year after year. We now have the best chance in years to build on the successes. The team is still young. Hence pressure on doing well now so that we can build momentum for the Abs.

Nkosi in for the injured Kolbe. Duane in for Jasper. I think Francois Steyn should be the utility centre on the bench instead of Wilemse. Franco Moster has impressed me in the Lions series, with that said, we should be playing our Flankers there when our other lock to flank convert PSdT is injured. Now we are just continuing to play our Locks at Flank. Hope this does not become a South African thing, almost similar to how we are different from the world with the roles of a blindside and openside flank.

 

[The Seeker]

What more can we say about this starting xv? Consistent and demonic on defence. Not too much to talk about for now. Need to beat Australia convincingly this weekend. They will be hurting from the All Blacks and will be battle hardened. Many people also feel they have the potential to unlock our defence. So i am glad that we probably will be chalenged to the core by Australia, its going to be close IMO.

We need to beat the All Blacks to stake a claim for consistent Rugby Chanpionship success. Its not good for the competition if NZ keeps on winning it year after year. We now have the best chance in years to build on the successes. The team is still young. Hence pressure on doing well now so that we can build momentum for the Abs.

Nkosi in for the injured Kolbe. Duane in for Jasper. I think Francois Steyn should be the utility centre on the bench instead of Wilemse. Franco Moster has impressed me in the Lions series, with that said, we should be playing our Flankers there when our other lock to flank convert PSdT is injured. Now we are just continuing to play our Locks at Flank. Hope this does not become a South African thing, almost similar to how we are different from the world with the roles of a blindside and openside flank.

I agree that it's not good for the competition if they win all the time, so I hope the Springboks beat the All Blacks.

 

[Gay-Guy]

Wallabies dominated possession and territory against the All Blacks...but can't execute and convert dominance into points.

The question is...when will the Wallabies finally click and capitalise on their possession and territory dominance? When will they start putting points on the board with their dominance to add scoreboard pressure to their opponents?

Wallabies don't have the best defence (especially from turnover ball) so their only hope on Saturday is if they click as an attacking unit and start building a lead aka scoreboard pressure....forcing the opposition to play catch up rugby and run the risk of mistakes. They would need to have a decent lead at the 30 minute mark in order to do this. However they are trying to score early points against probably the best defensive unit in the world.

On the other hand of the Boks score points early and lead at the 30 minute mark then they will close the shop early and the Wallabies will have to save their change for the next game.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

What more can we say about this starting xv? Consistent and demonic on defence. Not too much to talk about for now. Need to beat Australia convincingly this weekend. They will be hurting from the All Blacks and will be battle hardened. Many people also feel they have the potential to unlock our defence. So i am glad that we probably will be chalenged to the core by Australia, its going to be close IMO.

We need to beat the All Blacks to stake a claim for consistent Rugby Chanpionship success. Its not good for the competition if NZ keeps on winning it year after year. We now have the best chance in years to build on the successes. The team is still young. Hence pressure on doing well now so that we can build momentum for the Abs.

Nkosi in for the injured Kolbe. Duane in for Jasper. I think Francois Steyn should be the utility centre on the bench instead of Wilemse. Franco Moster has impressed me in the Lions series, with that said, we should be playing our Flankers there when our other lock to flank convert PSdT is injured. Now we are just continuing to play our Locks at Flank. Hope this does not become a South African thing, almost similar to how we are different from the world with the roles of a blindside and openside flank.

Jip, it doesn't look like we are holding back vs Aussie, Never know what to expect from them so putting out your best is a good idea.

I also am not a fan of the zero lock on then bench route. Its not like we don't have other quality locks available. I suppose NJvR is not available, Maybe they are just not wanting to pick Orie and/or not wanting to admit the mistake and leapfrog him while PSdT and Snyman are unavailable. Anyway, I suppose at a pinch if a lock and Mostert are out Vermeulen can pack down at lock but its not ideal and I don't expect he will be relied upon to go the full 80 after so long a time out.

Might be my Stormers bias but I for one am for Willemse ahead of Steyn at this stage unless we are thinking Steyn will make 2023. Steyn doesn't cover any position other than 12 IMO- just too slow for 15. Willemse literally covers all the positions from 10 to 15 so you won't have to rejig your backline with him coming in. He is also a 'confidence player' if I've ever seen one and time and consistency will give him that confidence.

 

[unrated]

I cant argue with your reasoning regarding Willemse. He is younger, stronger, fitter and more of a prospect for the future as opposed to FSteyn. He will be there for the next world cup. Can cover the whole backline as you say so its a no brainer for most people i get that.


But Steyn is a SA legend and he is available now, why not use him? Im a big fan of building up young players F Steyn played for us from 19, youngest ever world champion, why let this lifetime of experience go to waste. Its like the Proteas saying we are going to make a young Graeme Smith captain. Its not going to pay off immediately but after years of being a captain from a young age by the time he was in his prime he was already heavilly capped and had real credentials.

Yes he is slow by now, but he is big and chunky usefull for getting over the gain line, he has years of experience and knows the dark arts of the game, he can be cool when joining in the 78th minute to kick the match winning 60m kick. His tactical kicking is better, provides calmness and leadership coming from the bench. For now i believe his package is better.


I would love for South Africa to foster more project players, Pollard is one, groomed from a young age, pick him from his teens and involve him in everything, your team will reap the fruits when that player hits his prime (if) Goosen was supposed to be one of them, Lambie too. For me there is a nice story in doing this. Supplement that with picking form players even if they are a first cap at 30.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I cant argue with your reasoning regarding Willemse. He is younger, stronger, fitter and more of a prospect for the future as opposed to FSteyn. He will be there for the next world cup. Can cover the whole backline as you say so its a no brainer for most people i get that.


But Steyn is a SA legend and he is available now, why not use him? Im a big fan of building up young players F Steyn played for us from 19, youngest ever world champion, why let this lifetime of experience go to waste. Its like the Proteas saying we are going to make a young Graeme Smith captain. Its not going to pay off immediately but after years of being a captain from a young age by the time he was in his prime he was already heavilly capped and had real credentials.

Yes he is slow by now, but he is big and chunky usefull for getting over the gain line, he has years of experience and knows the dark arts of the game, he can be cool when joining in the 78th minute to kick the match winning 60m kick. His tactical kicking is better, provides calmness and leadership coming from the bench. For now i believe his package is better.


I would love for South Africa to foster more project players, Pollard is one, groomed from a young age, pick him from his teens and involve him in everything, your team will reap the fruits when that player hits his prime (if) Goosen was supposed to be one of them, Lambie too. For me there is a nice story in doing this. Supplement that with picking form players even if they are a first cap at 30.

I get where you are coming from. The option to put a long range kick over is a nice one but if its at 60/70 minutes and we are chasing a game I'd prefer Willemse. If we need a replacement at the 15 minute mark, sure, I'd prefer Steyn in close but still Willemse out wide. The only position I'd prefer Steyn over Willemse is 12 but not by a landslide, at 10 its 50/50, elsewhere its Willemse. I'd hate to have to move players out of position. So purely on the balance its Willemse for me. But its splitting hairs.

 

[Derpus]

I hope we rotate the whole squad next game. First try and beat the Aussies in their backyard which is very rare and difficult to do and then rotate, completely different team, let this rotation start preparing for the first All Blacks game.

You guys haven't played this team yet.

This is the worst Wallabies side in at least 40 years - without doubt. It's a team of kids going up against one of the most physical sides in rugby history. If you don't win by 20+ you should be disappointed.

 

[Derpus]

I agree that it's not good for the competition if they win all the time, so I hope the Springboks beat the All Blacks.

I would like to see the Springboks beat the ABs as well. But i doubt they will. And twice? very slim chance. I think South Africa have beaten NZ twice in the last 10 years? And SA are notoriously poor travelers.

That said, i think there are still clear weaknesses in the AB pack. Their locks are aging. Their front-row is workman like at best. Their backrow is undersized with Savea at 8. I think a guy like Akira Ioane is in for a shock when he comes up against a pack that doesn't part for him like the red sea.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

You guys haven't played this team yet.

This is the worst Wallabies side in at least 40 years - without doubt. It's a team of kids going up against one of the most physical sides in rugby history. If you don't win by 20+ you should be disappointed.

Well, I would be surprised if we absolutely trounced the Wallabies. Like you said we tend to not travel well traditionally though I do hope that is behind us. Our record away these last few years reads a lot better but even then the Wallabies have had a way of getting around our expected forward dominance in the past and we will need to convert pressure into points f we are to put Aus away. I expect us to win by 13 but wouldn't be surprised if we ended up getting caught out.

I wondered about my 13 point margin. I see bookies tend to give us a 10/11 point handicap so close enough to general expectation I guess.

 

[WaterboySA]

I can't see us bumping the Wallabies hard. I think the score will be close, less than 10 points either way. It's gonna be a hard match, hope everyone gets through it with no injuries.

 

[Oliver Madden]

Having seen the Wallabies in all of their games this year I can't see anything other than a huge win for the Boks. I know SA have a poor record in Australia but this Aussie side is awful. They can't defend and they can't play against teams that go direct. I think the Boks will win by 15 points. Wallabies will score a couple of tries but not much else.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Its a Smart Selection by the boks. The wallabies threat comes late in the game when the opposition is tiring, at which point the boks will have a whole new loose forward trio plus a fresh marx. If the boks can get turnovers at this time they will likely capitalize. Marx may feel hard done by not to start given his form, but the last 30 minutes is often more important than the first 50 (I would guess more points are scored), and his ability to get turnovers is greater in the last 30, which could be especially useful against the wallabies.

Its hard to see how the wallabies will challenge in this game, but I hope they do. McDermott and white will pose a different kind of challenge to what the boks have faced this year, but the boks will likely rise to that.

the pumas looked good at the end of the last game, when they started taking more risks, likewise the lions with Russell trying to play a faster game, more actively looking for opportunities. So there is a glimmer of hope for the wallabies, especially if their playmakers manage to coordinate with the rest of the team (which they often failed to do against the all blacks).

the wallabies defence is poor (though much improved its still not international standard, or even the standard of top teams the next level down, throughout the world ), but at least the boks don't use the ball a lot, so they're lucky there.

 

[ChicagoKid]

Quade Cooper gets the start. Gotta be honest, I recently started watching rugby in the past few years and don't know much about Cooper. But after four years out of test rugby, this seems like a drastic move from the Wallabies.

Thoughts from the more knowledgeable posters?

 

[saulan]

Quade Cooper gets the start. Gotta be honest, I recently started watching rugby in the past few years and don't know much about Cooper. But after four years out of test rugby, this seems like a drastic move from the Wallabies.

Thoughts from the more knowledgeable posters?

Flair player, very attack focused and willing to try things. He will either pull something amazing off or he will be absolutely useless and completely cost his team the game. I remember his goal kicking being pretty average as well. Was a fun one to watch though. No clue what he is like at 33 though.

 

[Derpus]

Flair player that hasn't played test rugby in 5 years... Even at his peak he was hit and miss. Although, he usually went well against the Springboks.

Why must they torture us like this?

 

[NZbloke]

i think there are still clear weaknesses in the AB pack. Their locks are aging. Their front-row is workman like at best. Their backrow is undersized with Savea at 8. I think a guy like Akira Ioane is in for a shock when he comes up against a pack that doesn't part for him like the red sea.

What ??? ...how are our locks aging that much ? - Scott Barrett is 27 & Retallick is 30, the bloke is 6' 9'' and runs like a back.
Ridiculous to say our front-row is workmanlike at best, like our locks & loosies they're athletic & have top ball skills... Aumua is starting his first test for the AB's against Argentina at hooker on Sunday, the bloke is really fast, he's the same type of hooker as Dane Coles.
Number 8 doesn't have to be 115kg - Ardie Savea might be just over 100kg, but the bloke is very strong, shows that by how explosive he is off the back of a scrum, breaking tackles through his powerful leg drive.

 

[NZbloke]

Quade Cooper gets the start. Gotta be honest, I recently started watching rugby in the past few years and don't know much about Cooper. But after four years out of test rugby, this seems like a drastic move from the Wallabies.

Every time the ABs use to put the pressure on him he would fall to pieces, real brain explosion material - you always want a player to play with flair, but it has to be in a controlled manner, does he have the mindset to show much more composure ? ...if he doesn't he's going to put his team under big pressure yet again.