[2020 Six Nations] Wales vs Scotland (31/10/20)

[Which Tyler]

I was so excited with 20 to go, I went off for a hand shandy, then a bitter shandy.
Sounds like I made the right call.

 

[dullonien]

******* hell Wales were **** again today. Don't know what's wrong with the players but the basics are appalling at the moment, especially at the breakdown where they were outmuscled again.

There may be issues with the coaches, but the players also need to take a long hard look at themselves as well. There were occasions where the Scottish players just seemed to want it more and that's not good enough! Most of the pack were poor and in those conditions we were always going to lose even in Scotland weren't great either.

 

[McTallshort]

Nevermind Wales, finished 5th after 5 defeats in a row

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Nevermind Wales, finished 5th after 5 defeats in a row

I really didn't want people to hop on Pivac too quickly but... Jeez that's bad.

 

[The Seeker]

Congratulations Scotland.

 

[j-dawg]

I still think that's a pretty bold statement when we know how good Mako can be. Sutherland is definitely a stronger scrummager. I'm not sure he's the better player.

Mako got ripped apart in the RWC final against the boks.

When will people realise that scrumming is the be all and end all of propping? Anything else is a bonus.

 

[Johnny Storm]

Tough for Gats now when he picks his Wales Lions team for next year.

 

[BPM]

Pivac is in a tricky spot. Gatland was a master at getting the squad to perform at a level that was more than the sun of it's parts. Understandably, Pivac's not quite there yet and given the age profile of the squad he inherited and some injuries to key players, he's had little choice but to mix it up.

For starters, key players have been poor or absent.

AWJ might be Wales' talisman, but he's becoming a bit of a liability on the field. I seem to remember him being personally responsible for a number of dumb penalties. These days he's pretty much there to lead by example, but the example he's setting is poor and the team seem to be folllowing suit. Wales' lock options behind him aren't stellar, but I really do wonder if they wouldn't be better playing a few games without him? Particularly given they'll need a successor for the 2023 RWC.

Similarly, Owens is a big loss right now, but he's 34 in January and is another who's unlikely to make 2023. This should have been an ideal opportunity for Elias to really lay down a marker to be his heir, but he hasn't done that. Parry has been included on form. Why not give him a start to see if he can offer more than Elias has?

It's not just those two either. North has been at best average for quite a long time now and his place is rightly being questioned. Jonathan Davies is not long back from injury, but since returning has been pretty much anonymous. Hopefully he gets back to his best, but at 32, I think there's a question mark over that too.

I'm not sure Pivac has any choice but to look at alternatives, even if results do suffer in the short term.

 

[TheOvalBall]

Boring game. Not much to talk about. Some nice handling and that maul try was good. Wales are awful.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

In a way Pivac is having similar headaches to England post 2003. The "golden generation" are all aging, form is slipping and the need to almost be replaced en-masse. The issue is the predecessor had not bedded in any replacements so the new coach is essentially working from scratch or with underperforming older player yet expected to instantly turn things around. With France the younger players were clearly better in many cases so sweeping changes have brought about an instant improvement. Wales youngsters however are really not that great. The French young replacements are U20's champs, Wales haven't come close to winning U20 for a while. French clubs are highly competitive and a mix of young and world class players, Welsh clubs suffer the same problems as the Welsh national side.

Pivac may turn things around but Scarlets achievement was not a sustained period of dominance, it was a flash in the pan moment and has not been backed up since. Ultimately Pivac will need to learn the same lessons as Townsend, you can't go out there with a mindset of constant attack and hope to simply outscore your opponents. It can work to a degree at club level but tends to fizzle out once the attacking structures get nullified and you still have sub-standard defence. Scotland now generally play a pragmatic game with only Russell really still offering the flair moments. Wales were strongest playing simple, pragmatic rugby and much as many Welsh fans may dream of a return to the flair of the 70's, I think it's safe to say Welsh flair is a thing of the past and will be for some time.

 

[BPM]

Mako got ripped apart in the RWC final against the boks.

When will people realise that scrumming is the be all and end all of propping? Anything else is a bonus.

I believe I was originally responding to a comment saying 'Sutherland has everything you want from a loosehead and is so far ahead of all other options' or words to that effect anyway.

I agree Sutherland is a very strong all rounder and a very strong option. However, I don't think he's 'so far ahead' of Mako, Marler or Healy for that matter. I wasn't making a point about specific attributes/skills and more overall ability because 'scrumming' is not actually 'the be all and end all of propping' in modern rugby. I'd actually say more or less the opposite as there are very few props who can get away with offering nothing outside of the scrum.

Mako (along with the rest of England's front row) was certainly bested in the final. I don't dispute that. I also think Sutherland is making a strong case to be a possible starter BUT, I can't help but feel that he's been hugely hyped of the back of what is (at this point in time) just a handful of good games.

 

[The Hog]

Scotland are still sh*t. It's just that we are currently even sh*tter.

Pivac is very inexperienced at this level, and quite possibly out of his depth, which has been compounded by the shambles that is his backroom team - Hayward & Humph? Give me a f*****g break.

I fear he may not last past the break clause in his contract. Whilst I'm not a fan of knee-jerk sackings (although his was a keejerk appointment!), if we don't improve massively in early 2021, then we need to bite the bullet & do it, to give someone else a chance before 2023.