[2020 Six Nations] England vs Ireland (23/02/20)

[Roady26]

Interesting 9 player bench did I miss a law change?
guess you have to drop Thorley or Devoto.

If you have Youngs in your side you get an extra half-back sub, new change from World Rugby

 

[corny]

I think we can win. England have a vulnerable air about them what with the injuries and the world cup hangover. We're not exactly setting the world alight by comparison but we're probably in better shape at the moment.

Not sure Kilcoyne can ever be more than an impact player but it might be worth throwing him in. Healy needs a good kick in the arse. He's capable of so much more but he's well comfortable starting. The talk of Standers position being in jeopardy did him no harm and POM responded well too (still shouldn't be picked though). Maybe Porter might fancy returning to the other side of the scrum.

Hope we have the balls to continue trying to play to the edges.

 

[MarkyH]

Don't get all this England are rubbish talk.

Yes, we need a more exciting selection policy, esp at 8 & 9. But we reached the WC final, playing some absolutely solid rugby mixed with an amazing performance, and an under par performance against a great SA team (and we were still 'in' the game till the last quarter)

We lost away, against a rejuvenated France team where we made mistakes. We beat Scotland in awful conditions.

I don't think we have a WC hangover. I also don't like EJs selections all the time. But we are more than strong enough to win our remaining 6N games even with all the injuries.

England by 7-10 points. Earl to play hopefully, and Tuilagi is back. Front foot ball, or just get the ball to May

 

[TRF_Olyy]

playing some absolutely solid rugby

Debatable,
Everyone was bemoaning how crap we were at finishing off attacks/how brainless we were in the 22 last year, don't let the NZ game overshadow that. We still look equally brainless now.
We absolutely had some flashes of brilliance (sometimes even lasting whole games - Ireland and New Zealand, for example), but we were anything but solid in 2019.

 

[MarkyH]

And if we're classed as inconsistent then EVERY team is inconsistent apart from NZ.

It's like we're so negative about losing the odd game here and there, but so do Wales, and Ireland and France. Scotland just lose all the time tho

 

[MarkyH]

Debatable,
Everyone was bemoaning how crap we were at finishing off attacks/how brainless we were in the 22 last year, don't let the NZ game overshadow that. We still look equally brainless now.
We absolutely had some flashes of brilliance (sometimes even lasting whole games - Ireland and New Zealand, for example), but we were anything but solid in 2019.

Solid (as a metaphor for just above average, not our defence), we were not super.

Didn't we score the most tries in last years 6N? Game management is questionable, but we scored a ton of tries. More so than any other 6N team, so we should be pretty confident we have the better attack, no matter how many times we balls it up.

 

[MarkyH]

in the 2019 6N Ireland and Scotland score 14 tries. France 12. Italy and Wales 10. We scored 24.

Game management and defence should be bigger concerns than our attack based on 2019 figure

 

[Groundhog]

Manu set to pull through apparently. Doesn't altogether worry me I think with the centers we have out being up for a physical battle, and I'm not sure he'll go the distance anyway. I think we will probably be able to field a stronger team, but whether that translates to a result who knows. England do look slightly hungover as happens to a lot of teams, but credit where it's due, a 7 point loss away in Paris is no great shame even though they were initially blown away a bit, and they won a pretty tricky arm wrestle against the Scots many teams would have lost.
I think tactically against Wales we were outstanding. Our back three are all game breakers who have the sense to kick the ball to great effect when the space isn't there and we're looking very capable of moving the ball to them now. Both Aki and Henshaw were getting front foot ball every time they carried and the speed of the ruck for Murray was way better. There was way more variety to our kicking and when Murray did box kick they were contestables.
Against England I do think our wingers will put on similar pressure. I also think they'll struggle to nullify all of our carriers especially if Doris starts. Confident our centers can get on top, but there's no way we'll be left to our own devices in set piece, and we certainly won't get as clean ball or be able to disrupt their possession as well.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I think a few Irish here and elsewhere are being swayed by the opening two rounds, we had two home games, they've had two away games. What beat Wales won't be enough on Sunday.

 

[Groundhog]

I think a few Irish here and elsewhere are being swayed by the opening two rounds, we had two home games, they've had two away games. What beat Wales won't be enough on Sunday.

Well the way I see it you don't need to be such a massive pussy about it. Away wins happen literally 100% of the time in these fixtures if you only look at the last two six nation meetings you doomsaying West Brit.

 

[munstermuffin]

I think a few Irish here and elsewhere are being swayed by the opening two rounds, we had two home games, they've had two away games. What beat Wales won't be enough on Sunday.

I think the opposite. Well aware had Gogg not been a clown we were beat and vs Wales had the got that try that was knocked on just as grounding it could have been a different result. Just feel Ireland are in a better place and can get much better. Yes England have been away for 2 rounds but they seem to be just missing something. Not sure if it's the Eddie effect is dropping or what but that and injuries to key players are issues.
Curry is a top top player. But not an 8. Manu is fit but is he 100% fit and sharp?
9 is issue for England at moment and I think 15 is iffy. Furbank is a good player and will become international class but he isn't just yet

 

[Leinster Fan]

15. Jordan Larmour (St Mary's College/Leinster) 23 caps
14. Andrew Conway (Garryowen/Munster) 20 caps
13. Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Leinster) 42 caps
12. Bundee Aki (Galwegians/Connacht) 25 caps
11. Jacob Stockdale (Lurgan/Ulster) 27 caps
10. Jonathan Sexton (St Marys College/Leinster) 90 caps CAPTAIN
9. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster) 80 caps

1. Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster) 97 caps
2. Rob Herring (Ballynahinch/Ulster) 10 caps
3. Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster) 43 caps
4. Iain Henderson (Academy/Ulster) 55 caps
5. James Ryan (UCD/Leinster) 25 caps
6. Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster) 66 caps
7. Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster) 25 caps
8. CJ Stander (Shannon/Munster) 40 caps

Replacements:
16. Ronan Kelleher (Lansdowne/Leinster) 2 caps
17. Dave Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster) 38 caps
18. Andrew Porter (UCD/Leinster) 25 caps
19. Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster) 69 caps
20. Caelan Doris (St Mary's College/Leinster) 1 cap
21. John Cooney (Terenure College/Ulster) 10 caps
22. Ross Byrne (UCD/Leinster) 5 caps
23. Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster) 83 caps

As expected really.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Debatable,
Everyone was bemoaning how crap we were at finishing off attacks/how brainless we were in the 22 last year, don't let the NZ game overshadow that. We still look equally brainless now.
We absolutely had some flashes of brilliance (sometimes even lasting whole games - Ireland and New Zealand, for example), but we were anything but solid in 2019.

Yep, we go from the sublime to the ridiculous often in the space of the same half. Far from solid in my book.

If I'm Ire I'm not looking at the likely Eng team with great trepidation. Of course we'll always put up a good physical fight at HQ, but who are they really going to fear? Manu maybe if he can stay fit, May although he can be isolated.

If you go through it unit by unit - front row, locks, back row, half backs, centres, back 3 I'm not seeing (m)any where we're likely to have a clear advantage. Maybe the benches will have a big influence.

 

[Groundhog]

15. Jordan Larmour (St Mary's College/Leinster) 23 caps
14. Andrew Conway (Garryowen/Munster) 20 caps
13. Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Leinster) 42 caps
12. Bundee Aki (Galwegians/Connacht) 25 caps
11. Jacob Stockdale (Lurgan/Ulster) 27 caps
10. Jonathan Sexton (St Marys College/Leinster) 90 caps CAPTAIN
9. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster) 80 caps

1. Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster) 97 caps
2. Rob Herring (Ballynahinch/Ulster) 10 caps
3. Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster) 43 caps
4. Iain Henderson (Academy/Ulster) 55 caps
5. James Ryan (UCD/Leinster) 25 caps
6. Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster) 66 caps
7. Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster) 25 caps
8. CJ Stander (Shannon/Munster) 40 caps

Replacements:
16. Ronan Kelleher (Lansdowne/Leinster) 2 caps
17. Dave Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster) 38 caps
18. Andrew Porter (UCD/Leinster) 25 caps
19. Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster) 69 caps
20. Caelan Doris (St Mary's College/Leinster) 1 cap
21. John Cooney (Terenure College/Ulster) 10 caps
22. Ross Byrne (UCD/Leinster) 5 caps
23. Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster) 83 caps

As expected really.

Genuinely thought Doris would come in.

 

[CAB]

I am not of those who fire on the ambulance. England hasn't become crap because they lost to France in the opening match IN France and that they had harsh time to beat Scotland IN Scotland under an awful raining.
I think it will be a stressing match, and also an interesting one. England, at home will find more cohesion than in their 2 previous 6N encounters.
I think England to win this one, not easily, but strongly. They will come back on their forces. It will be a harsh contest in the forwards game. Ireland is a trong team overall, but I was reflecting myself that in France, and maybe in other rugby countries, we know better the english players... I think (maybe I'm wrong) that individually, most of the english players are superior to their irish coutnerparts (no disrespect here, it's a feeling). Ireland know to play their guys at their best and they have more automatisms than most other teams of the 6N due to his system of clubs (more based on regional system) ... Munster, Leinster etc... it helps to have players which usaually play together, it advantages greatly the national team.

England by 7 or less.

 

[Dai Perk]

This match will be the cracker of the weekend, I imagine. I feel like this game will give us a much better picture of where these two nations are right now, it feels like we're very unsure of both... Ireland seem erratic, and England seem rattled, possibly by all the Saracens fallout ... but both teams are capable of being absolutely incredible, and both are still likely top 5 in the world. I'm hoping both sides bring it all, as we could be in for an instant classic!

I'm rotting for Ireland, but I think England will have too much, especially at Twickenham, which will be an absolute loony bin. Give me England by 3, but Go Ireland!

 

[Groundhog]

Almost forgot the Triple Crown is on the line this weekend. Remember when that was a big deal?

 

[klitarris]

This match will be the cracker of the weekend, I imagine. I feel like this game will give us a much better picture of where these two nations are right now, it feels like we're very unsure of both... Ireland seem erratic, and England seem rattled, possibly by all the Saracens fallout ... but both teams are capable of being absolutely incredible, and both are still likely top 5 in the world. I'm hoping both sides bring it all, as we could be in for an instant classic!

I'm rotting for Ireland, but I think England will have too much, especially at Twickenham, which will be an absolute loony bin. Give me England by 3, but Go Ireland!

I agree, I that the Saracens furore has probably created far more issues than have been admitted to, particularly for the Saracens guys, but probably the rest of them as well to a certain extent. I thought that against France, where we didn't look at the races (not to take any credit away from France, they looked on it!) none of the Saracens players looked particularly focused. Against Scotland they looked a bit more with it, although not much can be taken from that match. I'm hoping that with the extra weeks in camp and the extra weeks since the scandal erupted, the players will have gotten past it a bit and will be able to focus in on England - tbh the 6 nations has probably come at a good time for them.

I'm expecting a tight, physical affair (when do England ever produce anything else?!), with home advantage being the deciding factor in an England win by <10.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Almost forgot the Triple Crown is on the line this weekend. Remember when that was a big deal?

It's basically been equal to the grand slam for a while now, last three were both, England in 2014 was the last time it wasn't.

 

[Dai Perk]

It's basically been equal to the grand slam for a while now, last three were both, England in 2014 was the last time it wasn't.

What's the Triple Crown?