[2019 Six Nations] Italy vs Ireland (24/02/2019)

[Reiser99]

Tbh with a bit more discipline and accuracy Italy could have won that. If they had kicked their penalties, not knocked on a couple of times and not given away the sloppy second try.

I agree with above that the Irish players who aren't regular starters missed their opportunity to stake a claim.

 

[Amiga500]

So Jack Carty gets 2 mins.

For **** sake Joe. Game won and you give a man 2 mins. What is he supposed to show you in that? Why bother bringing him out at all?

 

[munstermuffin]

So Jack Carty gets 2 mins.

For **** sake Joe. Game won and you give a man 2 mins. What is he supposed to show you in that? Why bother bringing him out at all?

To be fair game wasn't won long.

 

[Amiga500]

To be fair game wasn't won long.

To be fair nothing. 14 minutes left after the last try I believe.

How bad do Murray and Sexton have to be before he'll even consider looking at someone else?


When did the 6 nations become the arena for playing fellas back into form? Send them both back to Leinster and Munster. Right now they are barely playing at Pro14 level.

 

[Leinster Fan]

To be fair nothing.

How bad do Murray and Sexton have to be before he'll even consider looking at someone else?


When did the 6 nations become the arena for playing fellas back into form? Send them both back to Leinster and Munster. Right now they are barely playing at Pro14 level.

Sexton had a decent second half (nowhere near his best obviously but not awful) I thought. Cooney should have been on earlier but bringing Carty on would have been silly. He's never exactly been a consistent or particularly composed player, throwing him in for a debut away from home with a game we can't afford to lose in the balance would have been ridiculous. Cooney should have been on though.

 

[Amiga500]

but bringing Carty on would have been silly. He's never exactly been a consistent or particularly composed player

He's been the best Irish 10 in the Pro14 this season.

Furthermore, if you (or really Joe) doesn't trust him - then he shouldn't be called up. The game was won with over 10 to go. Yet Carty gets what, two touches of the ball?


It is a ridiculous state of affairs that once again, injury seems to be the best development tool within the Irish rugby setup.

 

[Leinster Fan]

He's been the best Irish 10 in the Pro14 this season.

Furthermore, if you (or really Joe) doesn't trust him - then he shouldn't be called up. The game was won with over 10 to go. Yet Carty gets what, two touches of the ball?

Massive difference between some nice passes against the Dragons and being ready for international rugby. It's not that he's not trusted but more about easing guys in. Throwing a new outhalf in for his debut with the game in the balance is very risky. Like Ross Byrne was left on the bench for the third test in Aus. I wouldn't have said that game was over with 10 minutes to go, I thought Carty was brought on at the right time.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

I'm sure Carty is grateful of the cap (assuming he wouldn't get one if was an unused substitute, like in football)

 

[Hanley!]

I agree with above that the Irish players who aren't regular starters missed their opportunity to stake a claim.

I'd agree in most cases, but I thought that Kilcoyne was one of the best players on the pitch for this game. He really put his hand up. The rest not so much.

 

[profitius]

I'd say Sexton can be fairly toxic for the mood of a group when things are not going well. He should have been hauled off around the 60min mark yesterday.


Murray is a player you can usually rely on to make few mistakes but he was making mistakes all over the place. He should have been subbed the same time as Cronin.


Speaking of toxic, Italy looked much better without Parisse. Another whinger. has been a great player but I bet his teammates love it when he's not there.

 

[Leinster Fan]

I'd say Sexton can be fairly toxic for the mood of a group when things are not going well. He should have been hauled off around the 60min mark yesterday.


Murray is a player you can usually rely on to make few mistakes but he was making mistakes all over the place. He should have been subbed the same time as Cronin.


Speaking of toxic, Italy looked much better without Parisse. Another whinger. has been a great player but I bet his teammates love it when he's not there.

Yeah, he must be terrible when his team is losing, can you imagine?

(Seriously you have a point but I couldn't resist, agree about Parisse and Murray as well)

 

[Amiga500]

Massive difference between some nice passes against the Dragons and being ready for international rugby.

How about going to the RDS and schooling Byrne? [which is arguably why he isn't in the squad]

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I agree Sexalicious should have been taken off if Carbery was available but otherwise nah. Carty is in the squad so Schmidt has 4 tens who are familiar his system and that's about it, Ross Byrne will go to Japan ahead of him.

I absolutely disagree with Sexton being a toxic presence, with the exception of Thomond Park this year he's never been a major negative in any poor team performance and he's always one who's up for the craic with the lads by all accounts. The "died" with Murray and Zebo, his Lions record and him taking the whole Leinster squad back to his house after their Heineken Cup win last year are example enough that he's a great squad man. He also was far from bad yesterday, with the exception of his kickoffs which were way off. (even then Stockdale turned one of them into a try) It was blatantly obvious that players around him weren't where they were told to be an awful lot of the time, when else do you see Sexton check and go himself or shovel shite to the nearest player? It's not his game.

 

[munstermuffin]

I agree Sexalicious should have been taken off if Carbery was available but otherwise nah. Carty is in the squad so Schmidt has 4 tens who are familiar his system and that's about it, Ross Byrne will go to Japan ahead of him.

I absolutely disagree with Sexton being a toxic presence, with the exception of Thomond Park this year he's never been a major negative in any poor team performance and he's always one who's up for the craic with the lads by all accounts. The "died" with Murray and Zebo, his Lions record and him taking the whole Leinster squad back to his house after their Heineken Cup win last year are example enough that he's a great squad man. He also was far from bad yesterday, with the exception of his kickoffs which were way off. (even then Stockdale turned one of them into a try) It was blatantly obvious that players around him weren't where they were told to be an awful lot of the time, when else do you see Sexton check and go himself or shovel shite to the nearest player? It's not his game.

I think there is no question of Sexton being toxic. He is as you point out a squad player. He comes across alot as a moody spoilt brat lately. But all 10's do. ROG, Farrell, Wilkinson, Stephen Jones and many more did. Andy Goode is the only exception.
The issue here is for alot. Sexton (and Murray) are out of form by a long shot. And these things happen but people then will look to add in to it.
Simple fact is Sexton is out of form and alot of what he is trying just isn't coming off. It doesn't help then that others around him are also out of form and the team as a whole are out of form.

The 3 scenarios I see possibly coming are:
1. They return to provinces and really lift game. And well be back as a good team for RWC.
2. The Schmidt effect has possibly went stale and we struggle in RWC possibly peaking a year too early.
3. A knock on from 2 we try to be stubborn and not change the blatantly obvious until it's too late and crash out. Blatantly obvious would be like if it was clear Best can't physically last at this level anymore but we still pick him. Not saying that the case just an example.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I think there is no question of Sexton being toxic. He is as you point out a squad player. He comes across alot as a moody spoilt brat lately. But all 10's do. ROG, Farrell, Wilkinson, Stephen Jones and many more did. Andy Goode is the only exception.
The issue here is for alot. Sexton (and Murray) are out of form by a long shot. And these things happen but people then will look to add in to it.
Simple fact is Sexton is out of form and alot of what he is trying just isn't coming off. It doesn't help then that others around him are also out of form and the team as a whole are out of form.

The 3 scenarios I see possibly coming are:
1. They return to provinces and really lift game. And well be back as a good team for RWC.
2. The Schmidt effect has possibly went stale and we struggle in RWC possibly peaking a year too early.
3. A knock on from 2 we try to be stubborn and not change the blatantly obvious until it's too late and crash out. Blatantly obvious would be like if it was clear Best can't physically last at this level anymore but we still pick him. Not saying that the case just an example.

To be honest Sexton and Murray still look like they're lacking fitness. Murray's passing form is completely different and looks to be compensating for something. You'd obviously know if I'm right or wrong but if it's not forced to some degree he has decided to start passing in a manner no coach would teach.

Sexton is similar but not quite as bad, his kicking game has taken a knock and diminishing one of his biggest strengths is going to have a knock on affect.

Without those two running the show individual errors are sneaking in elsewhere. I think we'll stumble past France and win with a big performance in Wales to get us back in track. I highly doubt Schmidt has gone stale, that's never happened in his 9 years in this country.

 

[munstermuffin]

To be honest Sexton and Murray still look like they're lacking fitness. Murray's passing form is completely different and looks to be compensating for something. You'd obviously know if I'm right or wrong but if it's not forced to some degree he has decided to start passing in a manner no coach would teach.

Sexton is similar but not quite as bad, his kicking game has taken a knock and diminishing one of his biggest strengths is going to have a knock on affect.

Without those two running the show individual errors are sneaking in elsewhere. I think we'll stumble past France and win with a big performance in Wales to get us back in track. I highly doubt Schmidt has gone stale, that's never happened in his 9 years in this country.

Don't get me wrong both have reasons. Lack of match fitness, injuries and what not. Conor has an attitude issue too. And I'm saying that in past from working with these guys daily. Alby has 100% outplayed, outperformed and out-thought him for Munster.
Has for Sexton. People will say he is toxic etc. Issue is he is probably getting frustrated as he is forcing things a bit too due to dip in form.

As you say if those 2 are off the virus spreads. Although that doesn't stick for poor lineouts etc so hence it's by no means just them.

The issue and this is a fragile area is I really think Joe has to freshen this up a bit. I think he knew that when trying Henshaw at 15. But got the call wrong. Beirne may be a man, hooker may be an area I don't know.

Like I think he has in a way by now showing Kilcoyne is ahead of McGrath on form but maybe 1 or 2 more. It not easy to say where or who.

 

[Leinster Fan]

How about going to the RDS and schooling Byrne? [which is arguably why he isn't in the squad]

He hardly 'schooled' Byrne. He played brilliantly but Byrne had a decent game as well. It's not like outhalves are in direct competition with their opposite number the way props/wingers/centres are anyway.

I'd much rather Byrne was playing for Leinster than getting two minutes off the bench against Italy anyway. I'd definitely pick him ahead of Carty but from a selfish perspective him not being in the Ireland squad is great.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Carty played as much a role in Connacht throwing that game away as he did building a lead...

 

[bushytop]

Not really thread specific but about Ireland moving forward.

Big fan of Ronan O Gara, like his insights, like the fact that he went out of his comfort zone to develop as a coach etc. Now with the headlines that O Gara would be open to the idea of assisting Robertson, if he were to get the head coaching job with the All Blacks post World Cup... would/should Andy Farrell consider bringing him on as backs coach of Ireland after he succeeds Schmidt?

 

[Leinster Fan]

Not really thread specific but about Ireland moving forward.

Big fan of Ronan O Gara, like his insights, like the fact that he went out of his comfort zone to develop as a coach etc. Now with the headlines that O Gara would be open to the idea of assisting Robertson, if he were to get the head coaching job with the All Blacks post World Cup... would/should Andy Farrell consider bringing him on as backs coach of Ireland after he succeeds Schmidt?

The general assumption here seems to be that he'll definitely coach Munster and/or Ireland at some point. I definitely wouldn't have anything against it.