[2019 Six Nations] England v Scotland (16/03/2019)

[retired9]

Laidlaw has always been primary goal kicker when both he and Russell are on the pitch. I don't think a decision has been made to change that. Laidlaw is not a finisher - if all SH's are fit then he either starts or isn't in the 23. My preference would be for the latter with Horne bringing a greater impact from the bench.

I think its something that maybe they need to do, Russell is a decent kicker and we don't need to rely as heavily on Paterson levels of kicking awesomeness anymore (that said I Laidlaw has been off form a bit anyway). What often puzzles me is if a kicker is having an off day and there are others in the team who can kick, they don't make an on field call and someone else takes a shot, it seems daft (thats at any team btw).

I would like to see Hrone jnr get a chance on the big stage in the near future, not sure about World Cup. He and Hastings certainly can tear up the turf at Glasgow.

For me 3 Scotland changes made the difference (second half obviously), Johnson, Graham and Maitland. With Johnson against Wales we may have actually got a point or 2 from that second half pressure, the backline seemed more cohesive and had pace. Maitland brought some direction and organisation backfield which Kinghorn doesn't have yet, Hogg does a lot more than the camera can show sometimes. Its reassuring to know there is a bit of cover for Hogg with Maitland because its a thinner area for ready talent. Darcy Graham is a find and with any luck Scotland have found their Shane Williams for the next decade.

Couple this with Price/Russell and it showed a bit of what Scotland have previously been capable of. Jones back in the centre and we start to have some threat.

Whats the deal with Hartley for England? Injured/retired/out of favour/didn't send Eddie a Christmas card? Looking on I would suggest England need someone with a bit of his hard aggression to get a hold of the team and kick them up the arse on the field. don't think Farrell is the man for it.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Hartley has a serious knee injury - had multiple surgeries on it. Was due back around this 6N time but then had to have another surgery just as he was about to, which added 3months on

 

[Thingimubob]

In the interest of fairness, should probably also mention how good Launchbury and May's tried were as well - some sublime offloading skills from Genge and Slade.

Few people have picked up on Tuilagi's tackle on Johnson in the first half:

https://twitter.com/GLove39/status/1107414280889094145

Arguably a swinging arm to the head, so potentially could have a been a red?

The angle / speed isn't great to actually see if he made contact with the head though, as others have said it looks more like he made contact with his upper back.

 

[MikeTheNative]

It doesn't look good but as you said without better angles you can't really judge the incident, he could have hit high up the cheat.

 

[General Melchett]

I think its something that maybe they need to do, Russell is a decent kicker and we don't need to rely as heavily on Paterson levels of kicking awesomeness anymore (that said I Laidlaw has been off form a bit anyway). What often puzzles me is if a kicker is having an off day and there are others in the team who can kick, they don't make an on field call and someone else takes a shot, it seems daft (thats at any team btw).

I would like to see Hrone jnr get a chance on the big stage in the near future, not sure about World Cup. He and Hastings certainly can tear up the turf at Glasgow.

For me 3 Scotland changes made the difference (second half obviously), Johnson, Graham and Maitland. With Johnson against Wales we may have actually got a point or 2 from that second half pressure, the backline seemed more cohesive and had pace. Maitland brought some direction and organisation backfield which Kinghorn doesn't have yet, Hogg does a lot more than the camera can show sometimes. Its reassuring to know there is a bit of cover for Hogg with Maitland because its a thinner area for ready talent. Darcy Graham is a find and with any luck Scotland have found their Shane Williams for the next decade.

Couple this with Price/Russell and it showed a bit of what Scotland have previously been capable of. Jones back in the centre and we start to have some threat.

Whats the deal with Hartley for England? Injured/retired/out of favour/didn't send Eddie a Christmas card? Looking on I would suggest England need someone with a bit of his hard aggression to get a hold of the team and kick them up the arse on the field. don't think Farrell is the man for it.

I would imagine it's the captain's call to change kicker on field. So Laidlaw would have to give the green light. He rarely has a bad day in the office in that respect and so perhaps this protocol hasn't been tested as yet.

Although one win and one draw represent a poor return for the campaign I think GT will have learned a lot about certain players which can only be a good thing ahead of the WC. For me the back three has to be Hogg, Maitland & Graham. Bradbury and Ritchie have also shown they can handle the international stage. I would like to see the following 15 start against Ireland in the WC:

15. Hogg 14. Graham 11. Maitland
12. Johnson 13. Jones
9. Price 10. Russell
1. Dell 2. McInally 3. Nel
4. Gilchrist 5. Gray/Skinner
6. Barclay/Ritchie 7. Watson 8. Bradbury

 

[spartan32]

Well it's taken me a while to recover from that game. Quite spectacle. Well done to Scotland for the no quit attitude and some great rugby in the second half. Think jones needs to have a serious think about the lack of leadership and general poor form in the second half, and not for the first time. Not to take anything away for. Scotland, but that should have been done a dusted. Terrible game management.

Not sure what England take away from all this. Big Joe needs more time. We have some great hands and can win in all sorts of ways and score lots of tries but apparently can't play properly for 80 mins?

 

[Jimbo]

The Only positive I can see from this is that it has highlight to a massive degree a problem that has been around for a fair time in our lapses as has already been pointed out it was a similar story in the SA series but not to the same degree I rather it highlighted now than in the WC providing it is fixed.

 

[spartan32]

I think this problem for England runs very deep. We have the greatest choice of players of pretty much all the NH countries, certainly way more than Wales and Scotland, and yet we can't beat one and struggle to draw with the other. It can't be down to what's available to us player wise, because you look at those guys of paper and they are right up there with some of the best. And it can't be down to money because we're the richest rugby nation in the world.

We have seen what we can do when it all clicks. That opening section against SA last year, the Ireland game, the first half against Scotland etc. When we play like that we can beat any team in the world. But we only have flashes of that and then it all just descends into chaos. I think the issue has to be on the pitch leadership, or lack there of. Is it just a coincidence that when we notched those 18 wins in a row we had Hartley steering the ship, and since he has been sidelined things have been up and down?

We also suddenly have a very fesh pack. Some great talent but no experience. No hardened worriers able to tighten things up when they start to come unstuck. Wales have AWJ, Ireland have Best and a few others, and it shows, especially for Wales.

England don't need to find any more new talent. We have plenty. What we need is seasoned leadership. Faz has shown that he may be a good 10, but he ain't no Captain, and with no Hartley who do England look to? If we can't answer that question, and quickly, I fear the World Cup may well be a quick and painful exit, likely at the hands of the Welsh in the quarters. Another early shower for the rose, and another World Cup opportunity wasted.

 

[bushytop]

I think this problem for England runs very deep. We have the greatest choice of players of pretty much all the NH countries, certainly way more than Wales and Scotland, and yet we can't beat one and struggle to draw with the other. It can't be down to what's available to us player wise, because you look at those guys of paper and they are right up there with some of the best. And it can't be down to money because we're the richest rugby nation in the world.

We have seen what we can do when it all clicks. That opening section against SA last year, the Ireland game, the first half against Scotland etc. When we play like that we can beat any team in the world. But we only have flashes of that and then it all just descends into chaos. I think the issue has to be on the pitch leadership, or lack there of. Is it just a coincidence that when we notched those 18 wins in a row we had Hartley steering the ship, and since he has been sidelined things have been up and down?

We also suddenly have a very fesh pack. Some great talent but no experience. No hardened worriers able to tighten things up when they start to come unstuck. Wales have AWJ, Ireland have Best and a few others, and it shows, especially for Wales.

England don't need to find any more new talent. We have plenty. What we need is seasoned leadership. Faz has shown that he may be a good 10, but he ain't no Captain, and with no Hartley who do England look to? If we can't answer that question, and quickly, I fear the World Cup may well be a quick and painful exit, likely at the hands of the Welsh in the quarters. Another early shower for the rose, and another World Cup opportunity wasted.

Yep... a team without any hardened 'worriers' aren't worrying nearly enough!

 

[Scotty]

I think this problem for England runs very deep. We have the greatest choice of players of pretty much all the NH countries, certainly way more than Wales and Scotland, and yet we can't beat one and struggle to draw with the other. It can't be down to what's available to us player wise, because you look at those guys of paper and they are right up there with some of the best. And it can't be down to money because we're the richest rugby nation in the world.

We have seen what we can do when it all clicks. That opening section against SA last year, the Ireland game, the first half against Scotland etc. When we play like that we can beat any team in the world. But we only have flashes of that and then it all just descends into chaos. I think the issue has to be on the pitch leadership, or lack there of. Is it just a coincidence that when we notched those 18 wins in a row we had Hartley steering the ship, and since he has been sidelined things have been up and down?

We also suddenly have a very fesh pack. Some great talent but no experience. No hardened worriers able to tighten things up when they start to come unstuck. Wales have AWJ, Ireland have Best and a few others, and it shows, especially for Wales.

England don't need to find any more new talent. We have plenty. What we need is seasoned leadership. Faz has shown that he may be a good 10, but he ain't no Captain, and with no Hartley who do England look to? If we can't answer that question, and quickly, I fear the World Cup may well be a quick and painful exit, likely at the hands of the Welsh in the quarters. Another early shower for the rose, and another World Cup opportunity wasted.

Even having itoje helps, not exactly a hardened warrior in the same vein of AWJ given is lack of age or experience in comparison but he cheers to the sky when we get a penalty from a scrum. I think even that would have made a difference. Bringing itoje and hartley back would sure up that team no end IMO.

Said it many times but a forward should be the captain. Faz should be a leader in the team without responsability on his shoulders.

 

[bushytop]

Even having itoje helps, not exactly a hardened warrior in the same vein of AWJ given is lack of age or experience in comparison but he cheers to the sky when we get a penalty from a scrum. I think even that would have made a difference. Bringing itoje and hartley back would sure up that team no end IMO.

Said it many times but a forward should be the captain. Faz should be a leader in the team without responsability on his shoulders.

Yep, England missed that trademarked 'hand-clap' alright.

 

[The Seeker]

So do I...sort of.

Here's the highlights!

 

[87Dreamer]

Nothing quite like a grand slam to bring out the best in some fans... Eg 87Dreamer has only ever posted on match games with NZ (to whinge every time) or threads about England (every single one just slagging England off). It's quite sad really.

I only Slag off Farrell, not England . I actually think you have the makings of a decent team. Leadership core is poor.
Quaterfinals seem a stretch, pretty tough pool to navigate 1st

 

[General Melchett]

I agree with many that Farrell is not the answer as captain. He doesn't seem to thrive with the captaincy nor lead by example - spends too much time trying to get thug life sunglasses.

Is George Kruis an option? Had a very solid 6N but I don't know what his leadership skills / rugby brain are like.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Well it's taken me a while to recover from that game

You're English and you've got over that? Already??

 

[Lé Ddanno]

You're English and you've got over that? Already??

We're only three months out from 2018, the year of getting over these things.

 

[TommiG88]

You're English and you've got over that? Already??

I'm not over it, and can't bring myself to watch the highlights.

 

[Scotty]

I'm not over it, and can't bring myself to watch the highlights.

Just first half of the extended highlights its great, oh how i love denial

 

[Jashay]

Just watching those highlights; with England's second try, the maul, I'm left wondering if Scotland set up poorly, or England were quite sneaky?

Looking at the setup, all the England jumpers are at the back, with Billy, Genge and Sinkler at the front. None of them are jumpers, so Scotland stack the back, leaving Dell and Price covering the short.

Throw comes in without a jump, and the maul is moving before Gilchrist (I think?) can get there, meaning he's got little chance of getting into position to stop it legally. Poor old Dell can't do it on his own, and away the maul goes.

If that was planned by England, and not just a Scotland mess-up, then I've got to say I'm thoroughly impressed by the craftiness of that play.

 

[General Melchett]

Just watching those highlights; with England's second try, the maul, I'm left wondering if Scotland set up poorly, or England were quite sneaky?

Looking at the setup, all the England jumpers are at the back, with Billy, Genge and Sinkler at the front. None of them are jumpers, so Scotland stack the back, leaving Dell and Price covering the short.

Throw comes in without a jump, and the maul is moving before Gilchrist (I think?) can get there, meaning he's got little chance of getting into position to stop it legally. Poor old Dell can't do it on his own, and away the maul goes.

If that was planned by England, and not just a Scotland mess-up, then I've got to say I'm thoroughly impressed by the craftiness of that play.

I'm inclined to credit England for executing a crafty piece of play from the training ground. I also credit England for not resorting to dirty or sinister play in the second half which other teams might have done when under the cosh. I have a feeling that the chip and chase by Price would have been cynically blocked by certain other sides.