2019 England = 2003 England

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

He's prepping them for matches in this and the next international window, rather than matches 18 months away.

AKA, he's stopped beasting them, and is looking to get the best out of them more-or-less now, rather than sacrificing the now in favour of the future.

Either way.
2003 = great players, past their prime as a team, but clinging on by sheer force of will and tape.
2019 = some potentially great players, but few who are there quite yet, still a year or three shy of their prime as a team.

Kinda disagree on the first bit. 18 months ago he started preparing them for 18 months down the line aka now.... maybe seeing the fruits of that labour? Dunno but just a thought

 

[Tayga]

2003
Beats Ireland at Dublin
Beats France at Twickenham

2019
Beats Ireland at Dublin
Beats France at Twickenham

Says it all.

Old saying

« History never repeats itself exactly but it sometimes rhymes «

 

[Tayga]

2003
Beats Ireland at Dublin
Beats France at Twickenham

2019
Beats Ireland at Dublin
Beats France at Twickenham

Says it all.

Old saying

« History never repeats itself exactly but it sometimes rhymes «

Honestly, this team is polar opposite to last year. Dunno what EJ has done, but it's working.

 

[Tayga]

Honestly, this team is polar opposite to last year. Dunno what EJ has done, but it's working.

We had injuries last year and our guys Came back tired from the Lions Tour.

We have virtually a full strength squad to pick from bar Itoje/Mako/JJ and Watson and we have seen the emergence of Curry, Wilson and Slade plus Farrel is now in at 10 resolving the Ford/Farrell conundrum.

We will be strong for the NH nations at this WC but it will be tight between us, the Boks and NZ

 

[TRF_heineken]

Aren't they peaking too soon though?? The World Cup is 6 months away... I'd rather lose a few games now...

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Aren't they peaking too soon though?? The World Cup is 6 months away... I'd rather lose a few games now...

We haven't even begun to peak

 

[Tayga]

We haven't even begun to peak

I think that winning the Grand Slam sends out a strong message to the Southern Hemisphere. It is all about winning and the confidence it brings. Look at the French - they have decent players but a poor coach and team . They have got into the habit of losing games that they should have won ( Wales/Fiji/Boks the moet recent) - and that has shattered their confidence.

The Wales game is massively important when seen in a WC context.
If we play like we did against Ireland, that will be a huge boost to our confidence.

Harking back to 2004, we smashed Ireland to win the GS - we had beaten NZ the year before but the Irish result gave us the confidence to believe that we could win the WC -

I think this Wales game is that significant because neither Scotland nor Italy will have the firepower to contain us at HQ.

Also Wakes are a very good team with good depth and I believe a bonus point win will send out a massive statement that we are serious contenders for the WC.
2018 will be seen as a blip or aberration.

 

[TRF_heineken]

We haven't even begun to peak

Well that's a matter of interpretation.

I think comparing the other teams to your team, then you are peaking while they aren't.

Add to that, looking at last year's results during the EOYT, there has been an upward curve in terms of performance.

After the EOYT, everyone said watch out for Ireland for the World Cup. Now everyone is saying watch out for England. The bookies have even slashed England's odds, twice after the opening 2 weeks of the 6 Nations.

All that has happened now is that everyone will now be gunning for England at the World Cup.

 

[Tayga]

Well that's a matter of interpretation.

I think comparing the other teams to your team, then you are peaking while they aren't.

Add to that, looking at last year's results during the EOYT, there has been an upward curve in terms of performance.

After the EOYT, everyone said watch out for Ireland for the World Cup. Now everyone is saying watch out for England. The bookies have even slashed England's odds, twice after the opening 2 weeks of the 6 Nations.

All that has happened now is that everyone will now be gunning for England at the World Cup.

They would have been gunning for us anyway as we are the side that most countries love to beat.
But I guess you are probably right in the sense that we will be taken seriously !!

 

[Every Time Ref]

Peaked? In years to come we will all be looking back on the Ireland game as the worst England performance in living memory. As well as the beginning of the death of rugby as an international sport because England's domination has made it so pointless that even the English don't care and we're all watching rugby league and pelota vasca instead

You have been warned.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

We will be strong for the NH nations at this WC but it will be tight between us, the Boks and NZ

Oh dear...

 

[TRF_Olyy]

We're in 2nd, MAYBE third gear

We've got 3-4 gears left, baybee

 

[Tayga]

We're in 2nd, MAYBE third gear

We've got 3-4 gears left, baybee

Well EJ has said he feels this team has plenty of growth left in it- can we play better and at higher or same level of intensity than we did against Ireland ? We will find out in the next game. But if we do I don't think Wales will be able to contain us. We look very fit as a side - France had a much better second half against us but remember they did not score .

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Aren't they peaking too soon though?? The World Cup is 6 months away... I'd rather lose a few games now...

We were a year ahead of the game on that.

And we were past our peak in 03......

And I'd say we haven't peaked yet anyway. The back row and centre combos are at the v early stages of bedding in and its still fairly early days of Faz being the undisputed 10 and George as first choice hooker. If everyone stays fit, we have the scope to get quite a bit better. We've now mostly got the players in place, but still a lot developing to do as a team.

Who knows what will happen in Japan? All a team can do is put themselves in the best possible position and I'd absolutely rather be going into it with a winning mindset.

 

[ncurd]

Add to that, looking at last year's results during the EOYT, there has been an upward curve in terms of performance.

After the EOYT, everyone said watch out for Ireland for the World Cup. Now everyone is saying watch out for England. The bookies have even slashed England's odds, twice after the opening 2 weeks of the 6 Nations.

But the EOYT were the beginning of upward curve you compare last 6 nations and the SA tour to the way we played in the Autumn and you could see a markedly improved performance.

As to peaking too early the 6N schedule was brutal on us this year we had to hit the gate running to win the damn thing and I'll be honest any talk about not winning the 6N being better to win the RWC is poppycosh momentum is everything right now.

The reality is after Saturday (if we win) I expect a drop in performance, I'd expect at least one loss in the RWC warm-ups matches possibly 2. Thats where we need to dial it down not now (like the 2003 team) what we need to do currently is make the statement and build confidence into the team after a tough previous season.

Italy, Tonga and USA will likely see a slight uplift and maybe a maulling or two. Then come Argentina we should firing on the cylinders we are now hopefully with up kick ready for RWC.

 

[TRF_heineken]

But the EOYT were the beginning of upward curve you compare last 6 nations and the SA tour to the way we played in the Autumn and you could see a markedly improved performance.

As to peaking too early the 6N schedule was brutal on us this year we had to hit the gate running to win the damn thing and I'll be honest any talk about not winning the 6N being better to win the RWC is poppycosh momentum is everything right now.

The reality is after Saturday (if we win) I expect a drop in performance, I'd expect at least one loss in the RWC warm-ups matches possibly 2. Thats where we need to dial it down not now (like the 2003 team) what we need to do currently is make the statement and build confidence into the team after a tough previous season.

Italy, Tonga and USA will likely see a slight uplift and maybe a maulling or two. Then come Argentina we should firing on the cylinders we are now hopefully with up kick ready for RWC.

Fair enough. But during last year's 6 Nations, you didn't have John Mitchell as part of the coaching team, and during the SA tour, you guys were actually on good form, it's just that the SA team managed to counter attack late in the game in the highveld at altitude where your guys weren't used to the conditions, plus SA had a whole new coaching team too.

It's just how I'm perceiving things as an outsider.

 

[Thingimubob]

We're in 2nd, MAYBE third gear

We've got 3-4 gears left, baybee

*INTENSIFIES*

 

[Bill]

EJ when everyone started writing England off last year



He was just lulling everyone into a false sense of security

what a terrible actor.

 

[Bill]

To clarify further the 2003 team always get labeled as 'boring' when the reality was teams were still not used to being walloped by expert penalty kicking. So when under pressure in defence teams would infringe and then England said '3 points thank you very much' now teams defenses (except England cause heaven forbid we learn from ourselves) are way more geared to not infringing thus not getting destroyed by metronomic penalty kickers. Its why all teams rely on a specialist now to take advantage.

Never forget though England back then were extremely strong in attack teams just committed penalties in the hope to quell them.

As well as Robinson, Dallagio and Back were excellent ball carriers. As were Lewsey and Cohen. Greewood was no slouch and Catt regularly got bought in as an extra playmaker. Dawson was a brilliant sniping Scrum-Half always looking for a quick tap or gap in the fringes.

It was 'boring' because the opposition didn't want us to play and they still couldn't beat us.

it seems odd to describe wings as "ball carriers". if a wing can't run with the ball then there's something wrong.

 

[bushytop]

Oh... this threads still here