[2018 Six Nations] England Squad

[Vieux Talonneur]

Agreed, he is suited to being a 3rd choice 8 when hughes/billy are injured, and first choice 7 currently.

At chiefs simmonds is the 8 and armand is the 6, think EJ will use them the other way around?

Not one out and out specialist 8 in the squad. It's such a key position.

But then I look through the Prem teams and start wondering who.

 

[Scotty]

Not one out and out specialist 8 in the squad. It's such a key position.

But then I look through the Prem teams and start wondering who.

We havnt got many top class 8s in the prem have we, who are our options?

Billy
Hughes
Simmonds
Mercer
Is morgan still alive?
Who else?

 

[curtbob7]

We havnt got many top class 8s in the prem have we, who are our options?

Billy
Hughes
Simmonds
Mercer
Is morgan still alive?
Who else?

wouldn't class either of these as potentially international class 8's to be honest.

Still see Simmonds as a 7 in future. Mercer depends on his weight IMO.

There was Waldrom but he's leaving now.

Form 8 in the prem for past 18 months has probably been Guy Thompson.

 

[TommiG88]

We havnt got many top class 8s in the prem have we, who are our options?

Billy
Hughes
Simmonds
Mercer
Is morgan still alive?
Who else?

Chisholm of Quins looks to be relatively decent from what I've seen.

 

[Scotty]

wouldn't class either of these as potentially international class 8's to be honest.

Still see Simmonds as a 7 in future. Mercer depends on his weight IMO.

There was Waldrom but he's leaving now.

Form 8 in the prem for past 18 months has probably been Guy Thompson.

I meant we dont have many top class 8s. what are our options at 8 in general, not just the better ones because we really dont many to say we have 12 teams

 

[MikeTheNative]

Ford tackle technique is to go high but not too hard to slow down the opposing player and then allow Farrell or whoever else to help him out. He doesn't miss too many tackles but it does allow the opposition to gain a few extra metres over the gain line. This is why teams target him, to get ball over the gain line and from the ruck get quick ball on the next phase not to go bowling over him and make a line-break.

 

[ncurd]

Ford tackle technique is to go high but not too hard to slow down the opposing player and then allow Farrell or whoever else to help him out. He doesn't miss too many tackles but it does allow the opposition to gain a few extra metres over the gain line. This is why teams target him, to get ball over the gain line and from the ruck get quick ball on the next phase not to go bowling over him and make a line-break.

Yes but how many teams have actually exploited it successfully, how many try's have been conceded due to a poor Ford tackle in the next couple of phases? Everyone goes on about it but the actual conversion rate of scoring trys and penalties is very low. Its massively overstated weakness it is one no doubt but you don't lose games because of it.

@Which_Tyler I was reffering to England performances it has happened a couple of times in the Premiership.

 

[curtbob7]

I meant we dont have many top class 8s. what are our options at 8 in general, not just the better ones because we really dont many to say we have 12 teams

Still think Ewers is an option at 8 too.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Still think Ewers is an option at 8 too.

Agreed. Next season I'd like to see Chiefs go with 6. Armand 7. Simmonds 8. Ewers as I think they all seem much more naturally suited to those positions than their current ones and have better chances with England in those positions.

 

[MikeTheNative]

Yes but how many teams have actually exploited it successfully, how many try's have been conceded due to a poor Ford tackle in the next couple of phases? Everyone goes on about it but the actual conversion rate of scoring trys and penalties is very low. Its massively overstated weakness it is one no doubt but you don't lose games because of it.

@Which_Tyler I was reffering to England performances it has happened a couple of times in the Premiership.

I'm not saying he's loosing games, just explaining the tactical thinking behind it. I imagine pro teams analysis is a bit more than 'that guy looks small let's run at him'. Teams crunch the numbers and know they can get over the gain line that way so attack that way.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Chisholm of Quins looks to be relatively decent from what I've seen.

Honestly, more of a 6 imo

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Surprised EJ hasn't looked more at ewers, he'd be my third choice 8 over Simmonds every day (Simmonds would be in my first choice flank pairing atm)

Big unit who will smash people on the carry and in defence. With Binny and Hughes out he's the next logical option there, for the game plan EJ has for his 8s

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Surprised EJ hasn't looked more at ewers, he'd be my third choice 8 over Simmonds every day (Simmonds would be in my first choice flank pairing atm)

Big unit who will smash people on the carry and in defence. With Binny and Hughes out he's the next logical option there, for the game plan EJ has for his 8s

Hasn't he been injured for a large chunk of the season?

 

[curtbob7]

Agreed. Next season I'd like to see Chiefs go with 6. Armand 7. Simmonds 8. Ewers as I think they all seem much more naturally suited to those positions than their current ones and have better chances with England in those positions.

Fit and on form Ewers is an absolute monster

 

[curtbob7]

Its scary what Chiefs have got. They literally have 2, maybe even 3 different 6-8 combo's, all better than Eddies recent selections back-rows.

 

[Scotty]

Agreed. Next season I'd like to see Chiefs go with 6. Armand 7. Simmonds 8. Ewers as I think they all seem much more naturally suited to those positions than their current ones and have better chances with England in those positions.

For chiefs you could have 6 7 8
ewers armand simmonds
Armand simmonds ewers
Ewers simmonds armand.

Its just the way baxter likes to play them, but in open play they all get stuck in.

Armand is an out and out 6 in my eyes
strong big carrier, great work rate and not quick but not a bad turn of pace at all.

Simmonds deffinatly most suited to 7.
Strong runner, very quick acceleration and again a high work rate.

Ewers, most suited to 8 in terms of being a very strong carrier and very physical.

Not saying this should be englands back 3 but Armand 3rd choice 6 after Robshaw(who wont be dropped so why try) and underhill who offers something different.

Simmonds, englands first choice 7, yes ben curry could overtake him with game time but least top 2

Ewers 3rd choice 8 even if he players 6 for chiefs, we need a big carrier at 8 if we want ford faz to work IMO

What spot is mercer fighting for? All round very good player but dont know where to put him and if he gets close when all fit?

 

[curtbob7]

Simmonds England's first choice 7 and yet only the 3rd best Jackling 7 at his club.

 

[higgik]

Sod it.

My team for Ireland:

1. Marler (Vunipola for impact, Marler the better scrummager)
2. George
3. Sinckler (Cole is knackered, been massively oversued by club (enforced) and country
4. Itoje
5. Launchbury
6. Armand
7. Robshaw -got no choice have we really
8. Haskell - Simmonds against this Irish side. No. Again we're short...would love Fearns and Shields right now.
9. Wigglesworth -Care cant start, no control and even worse behind an underperforming pack.
10. Farrell
11. May
12. Teo -Ake match up
13. Slade -why not
14. Watson -close with Daly
15. Brown

16. Hartley (Cowan-Dickie if he's not fit)
17. Vunipola
18. Williams -Eddie wont do this but Cole is in a bad way right now
19. Kruis
20. Simmonds - not happy with this but there's no one else. He's class for Exeter because their pack beats everyone else up.
21. Care
22. Ford
23. Daly

Like this a lot, but with some swaps between starters and finishers.

Williams and Sinckler to swap as Sinckler's speed at the finish is really noticeable. George and Hartley to swap or drop Hartley altogether, George is a far better finisher, the other way round slows the game up. Totally agree with the SH roles, if you are going to have a controlling SH then play them first to organise and set up the game plan, leaving Care to come on and use his natural ability to see space in broken defences. I would also swap Daly and May, who still doesn't do it for me as an international and is only doing well for club because of the Leicester midfield. The one change out of the 23 would be Ewers for Kruis. Love the way you have got Slade in at OC, which keeps the 2 playmaker system, but in a slightly wider pattern to help get width on the attack. Like the idea of giving Mako a rest and giving him a chance to show his handling skills in the last quarter, ATM he is too tired when the game opens up to be a threat of trucking up or passing on.

But all in all the sort of team that I would like to see, as it has a nice balance of aggression and also a good mix of experience and youth, it is the base of something to move on with.

The game is a no lose match as far as I am concerned, the Irish have won the tournament, we need to regroup and find the Sri that we had when EJ first arrived, so what a better way than going out all guns blazing and either losing big with many positives or winning big and upsetting the form book.

 

[RugbyMarvel]

If all fit (Daly currently a doubt), from the squad announced yesterday I'd go:

M

Like this a lot, but with some swaps between starters and finishers.

Williams and Sinckler to swap as Sinckler's speed at the finish is really noticeable. George and Hartley to swap or drop Hartley altogether, George is a far better finisher, the other way round slows the game up. Totally agree with the SH roles, if you are going to have a controlling SH then play them first to organise and set up the game plan, leaving Care to come on and use his natural ability to see space in broken defences. I would also swap Daly and May, who still doesn't do it for me as an international and is only doing well for club because of the Leicester midfield. The one change out of the 23 would be Ewers for Kruis. Love the way you have got Slade in at OC, which keeps the 2 playmaker system, but in a slightly wider pattern to help get width on the attack. Like the idea of giving Mako a rest and giving him a chance to show his handling skills in the last quarter, ATM he is too tired when the game opens up to be a threat of trucking up or passing on.

But all in all the sort of team that I would like to see, as it has a nice balance of aggression and also a good mix of experience and youth, it is the base of something to move on with.

The game is a no lose match as far as I am concerned, the Irish have won the tournament, we need to regroup and find the Sri that we had when EJ first arrived, so what a better way than going out all guns blazing and either losing big with many positives or winning big and upsetting the form book.

Marler and Williams provide similar traits, clearing rucks and making hits. Having them both in the front row as well as George would be unbalanced.

I think Marler/George/Sinks is good. Williams and Mako come on and you still have a ball carrier in Mako and a hard worker in Williams. LCD on bench for me, not Hartley. Means you end match with two ball carrier in the front row - good impact.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Genge ---------> Mako.