[2018 November Tests] England vs New Zealand 10/11/18

[Mike Rolls]

I only saw the highlights, so I may be doing him an injustice, but I don't remember hearing Slade's name mentioned once. Must have another look to see if he does actually do anything. Thought Daley performed better at FB than he did last week. Must say I thought Kaplan's comment was spot on - why do scrum halves expect to get enough time to write their memoirs with the ball out but, in their eyes - and it would seem the ref's - not out?
I DO wish we got live coverage instead of just the highlights.
Mike

 

[RugbyTackle91]

The only real negative from that game for the English players is the they're English.

Careful mate, your comments are walking on a thin line of making you sound racist. Joking or not

 

[RugbyTackle91]

The only real negative from that game for the English players is the they're English.

Careful mate, your comments are walking on a thin line of making you sound racist. Joking or not

 

[dullonien]

How good was Underhill?

England probably should have won that after going into a 15 point lead in those conditions, but fair play to NZ for clawing their way back into the game. Underhill's try was correctly disallowed, but it was a great finish nonetheless.

 

[Paulo]

Great wet weather game. Tough conditions to play the All Blacks normal game and struggled early on under intense pressure from England. ABs seem to leak a few early points these days before getting into the rythym of a game. I think that will eventually cost us more games. Hard luck England, got off to a lead, but couldn't score after the 25min mark. Lineout really let you down.

ABs errors were high and uncharacteristic for later in the game, but is starting to be par for the course early on (helping teams get off to an early start).

Ref missed calls on both sides. Lawes was offside though, was not behind hindmost foot when TJ picks up the ball. Clear and obvious by where the rest of the D-line was lined up. They were on the offside line, Lawes was atleast a half metre in front.

Not surprised by all the complaining of the English fans on here, but this talk of a kiwispiracy with officials is tiresome and makes no sense.

 

[smartcooky]

What's irritating is the amount of time people spend offside at ruck time, and are not penalized throughout an entire rugby match. I am betting I could capture at least 10 instances from every test match where defenders are not behind the last foot in a ruck. There was much fuss made of it in the last lions tour, which i was at pains to point out there too. Players spend their time being offside at rucks. If there is a try, then it somehow needs review. At best today, England were unlucky it was called back. It was marginal.

Point is, if we replayed every offside at ruck, England would have the slow, break down to break down game they really try to impose on the ABs

You've actually answered your own point.

Yes, there are offsides all over the park, there are also instances of playing the ball on the ground and a number of other offences that seem to go unpunished, but for the most part, the ones where the infringer gets a material gain from his infringing are the ones that get penalised.

There is a very simple answer to the problem of offsides, and it lies with WR. The problem we have with this in Rugby is not dissimilar to the problem Wendyball has with referees copping torrents of vile invective from players. They who are in charge of the referees have allowed the behaviour to go unpunished, and when you do that, it insidiously gets worse and worse as the boundaries of what will be tolerated are forever retreating. If Wendyball really wants to put an end to referee abuse, the answer is simple... red card each and every player that yells at or shouts abuse at a referee or match official. Suspend those players for several weeks. It will bugger up some games, but the players will soon learn.

A similar course of action would deal with these continual offsides - penalise offside out of the game. Penalise the players so hard and so often (with yellow cards if they don't learn quickly enough) that they will be afraid to stand anywhere near the offside line. It may lead to a few games early in the season with high penalty counts and playing a few players short for a few minutes, but do it consistently and mercilessly enough, and it will change the behaviour of players. Then an incident like the one in the England match would be unlikely to happen, and even if it did, it would be entirely uncontroversial.

 

[BPM]

Great wet weather game. Tough conditions to play the All Blacks normal game and struggled early on under intense pressure from England. ABs seem to leak a few early points these days before getting into the rythym of a game. I think that will eventually cost us more games. Hard luck England, got off to a lead, but couldn't score after the 25min mark. Lineout really let you down.

ABs errors were high and uncharacteristic for later in the game, but is starting to be par for the course early on (helping teams get off to an early start).

Ref missed calls on both sides. Lawes was offside though, was not behind hindmost foot when TJ picks up the ball. Clear and obvious by where the rest of the D-line was lined up. They were on the offside line, Lawes was atleast a half metre in front.

Not surprised by all the complaining of the English fans on here, but this talk of a kiwispiracy with officials is tiresome and makes no sense.

Good summary.

FWIW, I agree with your assessment on the disallowed try. Not all England fans are moaning about the officiating.

As I see it, we came close but we could/would have won the game but for a few mistakes of our own making.

Had Farrell kicked the conversion for Ashton's try, those points could have been crucial. The restart he kicked off the park and the dumb decision not to to take safe points when they were on offer were critical points too. Five more points and we might have pulled it off.

 

[Bean]

Careful mate, your comments are walking on a thin line of making you sound racist. Joking or not

No one cares.

 

[NDC89]

Very frustrating second half for England. I've been critical of Hartley in the past, but we seem rudderless without him. I have no doubt we would have taken the penalty kicks to win the game if he had been on. Though, also, we might have won a few more lineouts.

For me...

The Good
- Underhill looked immense to me. 7s are like London busses apparently. Underhill and Curry both playing out of their skins.
- Discipline was sooooo much better than it has been this year. Out of sight.
- Youngs had one of his good games. Probably be shocking for a couple of games now.
- Slade and Shields, who have been taking a lot of stick, had decent games. Possibly theor best in an England shirt so far.
- Moon looks very comfortable at this level to me, not that I am a prop expert as a SH.
- Ford made our attack look dangerous.
- Lawes looked dangerous and hungry in defence.

The Bad
- Farrell isn't a captain. This isn't actually a criticism of his performance, he did what I expected, a solid but unspectacular 10.
- George had a nightmare, especially at the lineout, but actually didn't look like he did much in the loose either.
- Whoever calls the lineout, stop throwing to where Retallick is!

Overall, was a good game. Enjoyed watching it and glad England put in a good performance. Lawes possibly was offside to be fair, having watched it again this morning. bviously I felt he was fine during the game.

What really lost us the game was the decision to not take the points and keep going to the corner. Combine this with the fact that the ABs clearly had our lineout in trouble and we still did it, doesn't make Farrell and Kruis (I think he calls lineouts) look very smart. Is that to be expected from the robotic Saracens? (Club bias here!)

 

[Pom in Exile]

Loose head seems to be a bit of an issue now, because Moon has come in and played well. Mako is great in the loose, but not in the scrum. Genge seems like he's closer to being better all round. Mullan and Obano also around when fit. Hepburn I think has fallen in the rankings. I think Moon could be Marler's replacement and secure the scrum with a better impact sub in the loose than Hepburn.

Yep, Hepburn doesn't look up to it to me, not sure what he offers. Moon seems like he's got something about him.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Yep, Hepburn doesn't look up to it to me, not sure what he offers. Moon seems like he's got something about him.

Yeah, but both are well short of what we've come to expect from our LHs. Would like to see VRR given some time in the next couple of games.

 

[Pom in Exile]

Congratulations NZ, great test match to watch.

Some bad calls from officials in the final few minutes IMO (non-release and rolling away being ignored easily the worst call) but can't blame the loss on that at all, England had the chances but chiefly George can't throw. Way too low and inaccurate. Most telling was one slow motion replay where Maro is much higher but is trying to catch the ball with his arms horizontally and Brodie is reaching up vertically and still gets it. Unacceptable at international standard similar to SA last week, Hartley will be livid. England need another hooker as George just isn't up to it mentally.

Think both teams will come away from that fairly happy and things to work on. Bodes well for the world cup but I guess it's a year out so things can happen. Enjoy it Kiwis, deserved and well played.

George has one bad day at the office and he's not up to it mentally? Mmmh.

 

[Nudger]

Barnes still rubbing off to Farrell forgetting it was his poor decision instead of kicking the points is why we are behind.

I'm going to be quite peeved of we lose this by 1 or 2 points.

Reading through yesterday's comments and wanted ask on a scale of 10 how peeved are you

 

[NDC89]

George has one bad day at the office and he's not up to it mentally? Mmmh.

Still our obvious bench option for big games, but just in case, I wouldn't mind seeing someone else get some game time next week. LCD or Taylor I would think. Reckon we will see George start and Hartley on the bench though...

 

[RugbyTackle91]

No one cares.

Maybe no one has called you out before but I do care and other people viewing this forum might. I don't think you should be so openly hateful towards anyone's nationality.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Still our obvious bench option for big games, but just in case, I wouldn't mind seeing someone else get some game time next week. LCD or Taylor I would think. Reckon we will see George start and Hartley on the bench though...

Is he really, though?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

George has one bad day at the office and he's not up to it mentally? Mmmh.

Had a poor summer as well

 

[NDC89]

Is he really, though?

Who else though?

LCD has been our number 3 for a few years, but he isn't the most consistent in the set piece (for England, always looks good for Exeter). He is monster in the loose, but that isn't were we fell down.

Bring in someone completely new? Taylor maybe?

Go for experience and bring in T Youngs? Again, like LCD, we know he is decent in the loose but has never been solid at lineout either!

 

[User1245]

I only saw the highlights, so I may be doing him an injustice, but I don't remember hearing Slade's name mentioned once. Must have another look to see if he does actually do anything. Thought Daley performed better at FB than he did last week. Must say I thought Kaplan's comment was spot on - why do scrum halves expect to get enough time to write their memoirs with the ball out but, in their eyes - and it would seem the ref's - not out?
I DO wish we got live coverage instead of just the highlights.
Mike

Not to worry. I was assured last week that Kaplan doesn't know what he is talking about.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

George has one bad day at the office and he's not up to it mentally? Mmmh.

Yeah, his basics are usually pretty good. But he doesn't seem to bring the degree of impact he once did (maybe because Hartley's upped his game a bit) and he failed to nail down the starter shirt when given the chance. Should definitely have a look at LCD or Taylor to keep George on his toes if nothing else.