[2017 Six Nations] - England

[Ragey Erasmus]

Used to bother us when Roberts was good and had a gainline 10! New Zealand didn't do too badly with Nonu either.

To counter that, Nonu didn't really shine until he stopped being just a battering ram and added a decent passing and kicking game to his abilities, that was when he became one of the best 12's ever.

 

[martinspoonboy1]

I think teo has more subtly to his game than Roberts and it might be a bit of a disservice to think of him as simply a battering ram. His jink for the linebreak vs Wales showed some decent footwork.

 

[Peat]

To counter that, Nonu didn't really shine until he stopped being just a battering ram and added a decent passing and kicking game to his abilities, that was when he became one of the best 12's ever.

Yeah, but NZ were still doing decent with him in the side before that point.

And pick a bunch of other examples of teams with crash 12s. Its a legit style.

 

[ALJ]

Yeah, but NZ were still doing decent with him in the side before that point.

And pick a bunch of other examples of teams with crash 12s. Its a legit style.

It's legit for sure but Roberts and Nonu make for a good example of how one worked on his skills and turned himself into a world class I/C, whereas the other hasn't progressed beyond that crash ball style and is now being viewed as slightly ineffective and past his best at 30 y/o.

 

[RedruthRFC]

We can probably put out 4 or 5 XVs that would beat this Italian side. I hope Eddie is looking towards Scotland and Ireland and starts with as close as possible to the likely XV for those games, possible exception being at hooker. Despite two wins we haven't been convincing yet and I think the starting XV needs more game time together. By all means bring on the cavalry early and give Sinkler etc a good run. Hask should start, Mako should bench.

Isn't Jones on record as saying that he intends to experiment against Italy? I take your point, but what other chances has he got to look at how x, y or z works within the current setup? There's plenty to be learned in Argentina, but as most or all of England's key players will be missing, it's a different situation.

 

[stormmaster1]

With crash-ball centres, I think the overall balance is more important. In the first 2 games of the 6N a crash ball centre would have been noticeable as we have less physical ball carriers in the side. Having 2 fly halfs at the expense of a physical centre works best if you have other players that get you over the gain line. If you have lots of physical ball carriers, e.g. off the wing or forwards then the crash ball centre adds less. If your pack is more mobile but has less ball carriers then you may need stronger ball carriers in the backline.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

He probably did, Redruth, but what does he know? And I wouldn't necessarily take everything he says at face value....

Good post, stormmaster. No matter how much rugby has changed, the truth remains that it's a lot easier to play on the front foot. And to my mind getting the team going forward is still the pack's primary role.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I just don't see what we would learn. If we play a different game plan and smash them it doesn't teach us anything.

What we should be doing is continuing with the game plan and players and find some form before we play an in form Scotland team.

 

[Which Tyler]

I just don't see what we would learn. If we play a different game plan and smash them it doesn't teach us anything.

No, but it does teach the coaches things.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yeah, I don't understand people's aversion to it?
You test out new combos against weaker opposition because you can always revert if things don't go well.
I'd rather we tested a Farrell/Teo/JJ or Daly midfield vs Italy than have it implode vs Ireland, for example.

Definitely understand the find some form comments, though. For me I'd just switch out misfiring players. Hartley for George, Youngs for Care, Clifford for Haskell.
If we build up a healthy lead in the first half then I'd sub on Teo to get 40.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

First priority for me is helping out of sorts players find some form. Granted there aren't many of those in the starting 15, although most could stand to improve. But for example Ben Youngs has to start. Whilst I love the ida of a Teo/Daly midfield, I don't see the point if for the Scotland game we revert to the usual.

 

[Goodey]

Yeah, I don't understand people's aversion to it?

I think I'm just preemptively ****** off about the following argument

> Ford/Farrell does badly when under pressure in hard tests
> Farrell/Te'o does well when under no pressure in an easy test
> Therefore Farrell/Te'o is better

 

[Which Tyler]

Yeah, but that's idiots being idiots.
The coaches would learn plenty - and plenty more from pairing Ford with Te'o - as that's not actually been seen yet (as 10/12)

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

I think I'm just preemptively ****** off about the following argument

> Ford/Farrell does badly when under pressure in hard tests
> Farrell/Te'o does well when under no pressure in an easy test
> Therefore Farrell/Te'o is better

Well, the alternative is to play the same players forever and ever.

You don't replace players on the back of one game against Italy, you give them the chance to prove themselves competent enough to be risked against Scotland, then off the bench against Ireland, or whatever.

 

[MarkyH]

I think I'm just preemptively ****** off about the following argument

> Ford/Farrell does badly when under pressure in hard tests
> Farrell/Te'o does well when under no pressure in an easy test
> Therefore Farrell/Te'o is better

Me too, so annoyed.

And you're being generous when you say Ford/Farrell goes badly in hard tests. They may not be as creative or elusive but that channel has been targeting by ALL teams we've played, and we've won them all. They may not shine together every game, but they've never been bad.

FWIW I'd stick to Ford - Farrell axis as I feel they keep the play wide, and the game moving. Tiring out defenses even when not playing fantastic. That enables us to bring on Teo, or similar to keep up the tempo against flagging teams....

- - - Updated - - -

Also, Argie tour in the summer. That's going to be a tough tour and it will be chance for players on the edge of the squad, or players with potential to get a call up and get some intense test match experience in what is a tough place and team to play.

Lets focus on the 6N, winning with a BP and not showing any laziness against Italy.. Ideally keeping players sharpness up, and hopefully a couple of others getting a return to form, don't want players going 4 weeks without a game before we play Scotland... Thats's another tough one...

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

My take is that you integrate players slowly into a winning team when they merit it. You have to avoid the team getting old together (2004.....) or not having viable back ups, but those are much easier achieved with multiple substitutions.

A complete rash of changes will do nothing for continuity and is frankly insulting to Italy and the tournament, not to mention the paying fans.That said I think there are a few positions up for grabs against Scotland so I do expect some changes.

 

[Scotty]

First priority for me is helping out of sorts players find some form. Granted there aren't many of those in the starting 15, although most could stand to improve. But for example Ben Youngs has to start. Whilst I love the ida of a Teo/Daly midfield, I don't see the point if for the Scotland game we revert to the usual.

I think care faz teo daly ti start, maybe we will revert but gives a view of how they perform over a longer game and how much impact the usual starters make off the bench. I get its against italy but still holds a little merit plus they have earned a start

 

[ratsapprentice]

Kyle Sinckler, Mako Vunipola, Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby), Mike Williams (Leicester), Paul Hill (Northampton Saints) and Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers) will be released back to their clubs

Forwards (16)
Jack Clifford (Harlequins), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers), Jamie George (Saracens), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), James Haskell (Wasps), Paul Hill (Northampton Saints), Nathan Hughes (Wasps), Maro Itoje (Saracens), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins), Mako Vunipola (Saracens), Mike Williams (Leicester), Tom Wood (Northampton Saints).
Backs (11)
Mike Brown (Harlequins), Danny Care (Harlequins), Elliot Daly (Wasps), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Bath Rugby), Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby), Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs), Ben Te'o (Worcester Warriors), Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers).

Aight den.

 

[Maverick1987]

Aight den.

What do you think that means ?

 

[ratsapprentice]

What do I think what means?