[2017 Rugby Championship] Round 2: Argentina v South Africa (26/08/2017)

[TRF_stormer2010]

He might just have the yips honestly, ever since he completely cost that game agaisnt Wales where he took the quick tap and then kicked it out on the full I've been wary of him. When he started the third test I was ready to forgive him, but again he didn't take his opportunity.

At this stage I just think we need one calm head between our 9 and 10. Jantjies is also prone to spazzing out under pressure, so I'd prefer a calmer option at 9 ala Cronje/Vermaak/Paige I do "rate" Hougard in that I think he's got a lot of raw ability, but one also needs a brain to play 9 effectively.

Edit: Pretty much ninja'd by Stormer again.

We should actually just share an account we are so in sync. That'd cut our typing time in half LOL and we'd irritate Heineken so much more effectively.

 

[SomeOke]

We should actually just share an account we are so in sync. That'd cut our typing time in half LOL.

Shhh you're making them jealous, save it for our skype dates.

 

[unrated]

Most people has credited the Lions success to staying together as a group for a few years. Even when the players where cast aways from the other unions they trained and played together in the Cc and Super rugby and became a force.
With the Jaguares I believe something similar could happen provided the player receive the necessary coaching support. These guys are playing together in Super rugby and internationals. If that does not improve them consistently then I don't know what will.
I reckon by the next World Cup these players will know each other so well. Much better prepared that the other teams and I reckon they will be make the semis at the very least in the World Cup. Argentina should keep their selection policy limited to Super rugby at least until the World Cup . If this experiment did not work and they perform worse than in previous years then open up selection for European based players.

For now I hope Argentina is still developing and loses to us as we really need an away win.

On South Africa:
I really like Hougaard. I think he is a great player. And considering our options he seems a level above all of them. He has looked really good in Europe. If they give him an extended run in the squad then he will impress a lot of you. He has good ground skills and can steal the ball in times of need. He might not have the quick service that some others has but overall he is a much more rounded player. Together with Jesse Kriel he seems to be one of our fittest players. If all our players had that level of fitness we would be number one in the world. We could just play at a high intensity and outlast every team we are playing against.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

On Hougaard. I suppose we already are running a hooker who has a reputation of being a poor line thrower (though that seems to be improving game to game thankfully) a winger who is near useless on defense and a flyhalf who has a reputation of his decision making and execution going to pieces under pressure and we are carrying them for the strengths they have elsewhere in relation to other options. Might as well continue placing our bets on our players' strengths I suppose and hope their perceived weaknesses don't come as much to the fore. IE give Hougaard a 44th chance to impress at 9.

I specifically would not call Hougaard a 'rounded' player though. He is strong in contact for his size which helps him ball in hand and on defense and he has an eye for an angle and decent pace. He also has a good pass if not great for one in his position. Its his decision taking and speed off the deck that are major issues. I don't believe a scrummy need be a brilliant kicker if his service is fast and crisp as both serve to take pressure off of the 10. Problem is Hougaard does neither. Pointless to assume he might pick it up now. I for one would rather invest in even the likes of Paige as much as I bag his inclusion. I am starting to drift away from myself saying I'll reserve my opinion on Hougaard again, sorry. But we shouldn't have to wait ong for the line up any way.

 

[WaterboySA]

Can't see reason for the Hougaard bashing?I think he is the best SA 9 by a country mile,and if he gets his chance Ross Cronje will not see the nr 9 again. You read it here first. He's got twice the pass Cronje's got, and he makes me think of Joost regarding his cross defense, something the other 9's can't do. Go Francois!

 

[George Ford]

Can't see reason for the Hougaard bashing?I think he is the best SA 9 by a country mile,and if he gets his chance Ross Cronje will not see the nr 9 again. You read it here first. He's got twice the pass Cronje's got, and he makes me think of Joost regarding his cross defense, something the other 9's can't do. Go Francois!

This ain't bashing the guy. In fact some guys have gone at length to compliment his raw talent for the game which is undeniable. He is the kind of player who could fit in almost anywhere in the backline, if needed- and that right there i'm afraid is also his downfall (to a certain degree) in that he never really specialized in 1 position. His development as a player throughout the years was rooted in being versatile, which is actually excellent for a coach to have at your disposal for a match day squad

@TRF_stormer2010 is on the money with this:

On the scrum halves. Lets put it like this; I'd be feeling uncomfortable if Hougaard were to start. He is a 9 for when the game opens up and legs are tired. Not for feeling each other out and early kicking exchanges looking for an upper hand tactically and looking for position. I'll leave it at that.

... last year the Pumas aerial game put us under immense pressure and the over-eagerly glorified Faf De Klerk couldn't counter.

 

[SomeOke]

No one is bashing Hougard, I want every single SA player to succeed, but you can't deny he's had a lot of chances, and I can't remember him having a good game when starting for us at 9, and since he's not even that young anymore I don't see much reason to force him into the side.

Anyway it's a small quibble but quite an important one since we have lost quite a few tests where our 9 and 10 just didn't function. Anyway I won't be annoyed if Hougard does start, selection wise I have minor quibbles with the side but the only glaring weakness is Rhule. There is an argument for every other player in their position (even Beast adds experience).

It's got to be all about consistency and getting our tactics and basics right at this stage.

 

[petite]

we need to match up our forwards Allemano must start. I would put Kramer as n8. and pieretto as reserve so Herrera starts. (more experience) and more penalties

 

[The Jones Boy]

Home advantage should put a spring in the Puma's step as they look to lift their defence to another level.

 

[Brigantine]

Going by WR rankings, South Africa are the favourites, but only by 62%-38%

A 15+ point win by South Africa would lift them above Ireland (into 3rd, unless Australia also win)
Any size win by Argentina would leave South Africa in 5th (below Australia) and Argentina in 8th (above Fiji and France) - and also make Argentina the favourite in a re-match. (with home advantage)

Despite those numbers, I'll be surprised if South Africa doesn't win this.

 

[FNS]

They should field the bigger players no doubt but avoid being so frontally and go back to offload and playing from odd places. Move the ball, dont let SA use they strength, keep them running.

 

[Durbanite]

They should field the bigger players no doubt but avoid being so frontally and go back to offload and playing from odd places. Move the ball, dont let SA use they strength, keep them running.

I agree, couple that with some territorial kicking, chips, grubbers and some rush/smother defence with emphasis on going for the legs then over the ball and SA will have a headache of a day. They can be tired out, and trying to out muscle SA won't work for the Pumas imo. We saw what kicking did for them last year in Salta and how dangerous they can be in broken play, why not stick to strengths. Just have to have better hands, less mistakes and fix up the scrums this week and it should be much more of a contest.

 

[Durbanite]

Hougaard starting at 9 and Paige off the bench are the only changes to the bok squad. Would've preferred it the other way round and with Vermaak instead of Paige but it definitely makes a lot of sense to have experience at 9 and Hougaard is a fine choice looking at the options we have

 

[SomeOke]

Hope Hougard proves me wrong and has a cracker!

 

[George Ford]

Hougaard starting at 9 and Paige off the bench are the only changes to the bok squad. Would've preferred it the other way round and with Vermaak instead of Paige but it definitely makes a lot of sense to have experience at 9 and Hougaard is a fine choice looking at the options we have

Hope Hougard proves me wrong and has a cracker!

AC giving Hougie the chance to make that 9 jersey his..

They should field the bigger players no doubt but avoid being so frontally and go back to offload and playing from odd places. Move the ball, dont let SA use they strength, keep them running.

Based on last week's game and the respective teams' showings so far this year, the Boks should have too much for los Pumas. Where the former have shown improvement on all aspects of their game, the home side has not i'm afraid. Would be bit of an upset if Argies come out on top.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Nothing ynexpected at this juncture.

Hougaard starting at 9 and Paige off the bench are the only changes to the bok squad. Would've preferred it the other way round and with Vermaak instead of Paige but it definitely makes a lot of sense to have experience at 9 and Hougaard is a fine choice looking at the options we have

Hope Hougard proves me wrong and has a cracker!

Sure. Me too on both accounts.

I would add Rhule to the 'hope he proves me wrong' list. I still need convincing that he deserves his place ahead of Lleyds and Combrinck. I am beginning to wonder whether it might the backline coaches' and Brendan Venter's own Cheetahs connection that sees Rhule there. I am going to stop assuming Rhule is there based on quotas and is the odd baal pick we see with coaches; I couldn't believe Spies being picked ahead of Vermeulen for what felt like forever under White for instance and the man did take us a RWC ***le at the end of the day despite his shrtcomings (both Spies and White).

 

[SomeOke]

I'm completely unconvinced by Rhule and would rather see him replaced ASAP.
It's not even about quotas if we must have a quota player there I'd rather have someone younger with more potential like: Nkosi/Ulengo/Senatla
He's just average, you can't tell me he offers more on attack than Nkosi or Senatla and both are far better on defense. Ulengo would be your safe option, he has plenty of pace and is a good defender. Why is Rhule in the mix?

Edit: OK so he's 24 maybe I should give him a chance.

 

[George Ford]

The Springbok side to face Argentina in Salta:

15. Andries Coetzee (Emirates Lions), 4 caps, 0 points
14. Raymond Rhule (Toyota Cheetahs), 4 caps, 5 points (1 try)
13. Jesse Kriel (Vodacom Bulls), 20 caps, 25 points (5 tries)
12. Jan Serfontein (Vodacom Bulls), 30 caps, 20 points (4 tries)
11. Courtnall Skosan (Emirates Lions), 4 caps, points (1 try)
10. Elton Jantjies (Emirates Lions), 15 caps, 147 points (1 try, 26 conv, 30 pen)
9. Francois Hougaard (Worcester Warriors, England) 43 caps, 25 points (5 tries)
8. Uzair Cassiem (Toyota Cheetahs) 2 caps, 5 points (1 try)
7. Jaco Kriel (Emirates Lions), 9 caps, 0 points
6. Siya Kolisi (DHL Stormers), 20 caps, 5 points (1 try)
5. Franco Mostert (Emirates Lions), 11 caps, 0 points
4. Eben Etzebeth (captain, DHL Stormers), 58 caps, 15 points (3 tries)
3. Coenie Oosthuizen (Cell C Sharks), 27 caps, 20 points (4 tries)
2. Malcolm Marx (Emirates Lions), 6 caps, 5 points (1 try)
1. Tendai Mtawarira (Cell C Sharks), 91 caps, 10 points (2 tries)
Replacements:
16. Bongi Mbonambi (DHL Stormers), 9 caps, 0 points
17. Steven Kitshoff (DHL Stormers), 14 caps, 0 points
18. Trevor Nyakane (Vodacom Bulls), 29 caps, 5 points (1 try)
19. Pieter-Steph du Toit (DHL Stormers), 24 caps, 15 points (3 tries)
20. Jean-Luc du Preez (Cell C Sharks), 5 caps, 0 points
21. Rudy Paige (Vodacom Bulls) 8 caps, 5 points (1 try)
22. Curwin Bosch (Cell C Sharks), 1 cap, 0 points
23. Damian de Allende (DHL Stormers), 23 caps, 15 points (3 tries)

https://www.supersport.com/rugby/springboks/news/170824/Hougaard_to_start_against_Pumas

 

[mdaclarke]

This will be a real test of how far the Springboks have come as although they have 4 wins in a row they have all been at home. This is their first away game this year. For me Boks by 12

 

[petite]

well this looks a bit better juani had great 20 min last game and sanchez has been low. herrera and allemano in! good cubelli is also in i prefer him over landajo, hes been dreadfull latelly