[2017 RBS Six Nations] Round 3: England vs Italy (26/02/2017)

[Jockstap]

It's spelt "whining"

Irish can't get anything right.

I simply state the truth.

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I mean, we can all laugh at how average and stupid Hartley is but at least he's not Rory "literally diarrhoea's himself under the slightest amount of pressure" Best.

Gatland's an ex-hooker, there's noway someone as ****house as Best is starting/captaining the Lions.

Who then? After Wynn Jones speaking out about his team mates, Hartley being Dylan Hartley, and no other options, who else but Best by process of elimination?

 

[Groundhog]

Pretty sure not many are tipping Hartley for lions captain. You need to be first in your position for that and he's far from that. Still think Warburton is a decent shout .

The irony was very very strong on this post. I'm done being mildly serious today. Warby is a good shout for now, but the competition he faces means he has to be flawless for the next few games to be a guarentee.

I mean, we can all laugh at how average and stupid Hartley is but at least he's not Rory "literally diarrhoea's himself under the slightest amount of pressure" Best.

Gatland's an ex-hooker, there's noway someone as ****house as Best is starting/captaining the Lions.

Well to be fair Hartley would have to not be habitually banned to prove what an average player he is I guess. Every cloud has a silver lining kids.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Lions Captain elect™ Dylan Hartley waiting for Papa Haskell to ask the man with the whistle how rugby works because Hask is charismatic and has a really popular YouTube channel and you're actually more proficient with flinging **** and biting people than with the English language.

I await your response in the form of a ****post Tigs.

I would but I approve of this post so not sure what to do?

Lions captain wise it's obvious it should be Ben Youngs IMO.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Was Campagnaro injured or otherwise unavailable? He is one of the Italian players who is up to the same level of other 6N players and why he hasn't been used baffles me.

No. I'm told by followers of the English league he was injured at the tail end of last year. So perhaps O'Shea was just showing loyalty to Benvenuti who played solidly in the Autumn. If Sarto comes back from injury and Padovani continues adapting to the requirements of a fullback then the Italian backs will include Campagnaro, Sarto, Venditti and Padovani. Not too shabby at all, particularly when they have decent half back pairing options too and a decentish pack (excluding the locks).

O'Shea was more realistic in his post-match assessment of where Italy are and the fact they are competing against 5 teams in the worlds top 8.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Today, Cole Hughes and itoje gave away 10 penalties between them. How awful is that.

I'd have to point out that Cole is a persistent infringer and is becoming a really unreliable kind of player. Or maybe he's reliable, just in the wrong way. As I've said, not watching the game live but being the comments, I'm not surprised by Hughes' penalty count, but surprised at that of Itoje given many were waxing lyrical about his performance.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I would but I approve of this post so not sure what to do?

Lions captain wise it's obvious it should be Ben Youngs IMO.

Luke 24
On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb. 2 They found the stone rolled away from the tomb, 3 but when they entered, they did not find the body of the Lord Addison. 4 While they were wondering about this, suddenly two men in clothes that gleamed like lightning stood beside them. 5 In their fright the women bowed down with their faces to the ground, but the men said to them, "Why do you look for the living among the dead? 6 He is not here; he has risen! Remember how he told you, while he was still with you in Galilee: 7 'The Son of Man must be delivered over to the hands of sinners, be crucified and on the third day be raised again.' "

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Hughes Was the worse player on the pitch today IMO followed by Hartley.

both should be dropped for Scotland but we don't really have another 8 and we Hartley is captain.

 

[munstermuffin]

Hughes Was the worse player on the pitch today IMO followed by Hartley.

both should be dropped for Scotland but we don't really have another 8 and we Hartley is captain.

Haskell was real captain today Hartley couldn't speak to Poite

 

[ncurd]

Haskell was real captain today Hartley couldn't speak to Poite

Haskell was like just go up to him and ask him what the law is. Look if you don't do it I will.

Hartley still didn't understand after the match 30mins after he was taken off. I have no idea what Hartley was doing.today as captain. Robshaw made the wrong decisions at times but I get the feeling he wouldn't be that bamboozled.

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Mind you I suppose we should be happy Hartley didnt punch or bite.anyone out of frustration.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Mind you I suppose we should be happy Hartley didnt punch or bite.anyone out of frustration.

I think you've solved the mystery. Hartley is focusing so hard on not biting anyone that he has no brain left to play rugby.

 

[martinspoonboy1]

The irony was very very strong on this post. I'm done being mildly serious today. Warby is a good shout for now, but the competition he faces means he has to be flawless for the next few games to be a guarentee.

Well to be fair Hartley would have to not be habitually banned to prove what an average player he is I guess. Every cloud has a silver lining kids.

No irony pal. He's the best of a bad bunch and due to his form could start at either 6 or 7. Possibly 7 due to the cracking form of stander. Who else would you start at 7. If prefer him to obrien and Haskell . Watson put his hand up for sure, but warburtons international and lions experience will count for him.

You said the irony was very strong and then said he's the best for now. Slightly confused by this. Can you elaborate?

 

[Mumbles119]

Who then? After Wynn Jones speaking out about his team mates, Hartley being Dylan Hartley, and no other options, who else but Best by process of elimination?

Warburton was suggested, but feels like a step backwards.

For something new and hopeful, what about Jonny Gray or CJ Stander?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Today, Cole Hughes and itoje gave away 10 penalties between them. How awful is that.

I'd have to point out that Cole is a persistent infringer and is becoming a really unreliable kind of player. Or maybe he's reliable, just in the wrong way. As I've said, not watching the game live but being the comments, I'm not surprised by Hughes' penalty count, but surprised at that of Itoje given many were waxing lyrical about his performance.

No becoming about it, he's been a penalty machine for years. I seriously can't understand why he is still a starter... He is decent in the scrum but is being marched backwards or folding too frequently to say he really is on top of his opponents. In open play he gives away a ****ton of stupid penalties, has non-existent carrying, can be overtaken by an asthmatic amputee auntie and can only defend someone running directly at him.

 

[smartcooky]

I like the law cause it makes a tackle a small stoppage in open play instead of a new set piece type occurrence.

I do believe the NZ law trial made the offsides line start when an offensive player was over ball. I'd have @smartcooky confirm that though.

That's right, but they combined that with a Law change that made the jacker release the ball if someone bound to him. This resulted in three examples of "Merton's Law (a.k.a. the Law of unintended consequences)

1. Defending teams didn't commit players to the ruck.

2. Those players who did commit tended to stand more upright and tried to kick the ball through

3. Teams stopped trying to use fetchers to turn over the ball

The end result was endless phases in a "procession of possession" as defending teams "lined the trenches" while attacking teams tried to batter their way through.

The experiment was an abject failure IMO. The only way I see this working is for a return to the ELV they tried in 2008 with the "offside at the tackle", with some kind of provision that offside players who are in the act of retiring as they "chase back" to a tackle will be made onside when the ball is cleared, but that players who loiter in an offside position must retire all the way to the offside line. Without such a provision, a midfield break can become completely impossible to legally defend.. as the video shows.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10yjOe3zSQw

 

[TRF_Olyy]

No becoming about it, he's been a penalty machine for years. I seriously can't understand why he is still a starter... He is decent in the scrum but is being marched backwards or folding too frequently to say he really is on top of his opponents. In open play he gives away a ****ton of stupid penalties, has non-existent carrying, can be overtaken by an asthmatic amputee auntie and can only defend someone running directly at him.

Who's a better scrummaging tight head?
It's a depressing thought but I can't think of anyone. I know I'm in the minority these days but props (especially tight heads) should be judged on their scrummaging first.
There's plenty better in open play etc. but coles adequacy in the scrum is the best we've got, and we need it.
Hopefully Sinckler comes on leaps and bounds under Adam Jones' tutelage because he's v.v.good away from the scrum

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Who's a better scrummaging tight head?
It's a depressing thought but I can't think of anyone. I know I'm in the minority these days but props (especially tight heads) should be judged on their scrummaging first.
There's plenty better in open play etc. but coles adequacy in the scrum is the best we've got, and we need it.
Hopefully Sinckler comes on leaps and bounds under Adam Jones' tutelage because he's v.v.good away from the scrum

I can't think of one but scrummaging is supposedly Cole's only strength, so you'd expect him to have to be pretty phenomenal at it to make up for his deficiencies elsewhere yet I'd say he is merely a good scrummager, no dominant enough to merit what we lose elsewhere. I hope in the tour of Argentina we try a new starting TH prop because Cole just isn't cutting it any more. The days of a front row being able to scrummage and not much else are gone, that is not an acceptable standard any more.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Luke 24
On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb. 2 They found the stone rolled away from the tomb, 3 but when they entered, they did not find the body of the Lord Addison. 4 While they were wondering about this, suddenly two men in clothes that gleamed like lightning stood beside them. 5 In their fright the women bowed down with their faces to the ground, but the men said to them, "Why do you look for the living among the dead? 6 He is not here; he has risen! Remember how he told you, while he was still with you in Galilee: 7 'The Son of Man must be delivered over to the hands of sinners, be crucified and on the third day be raised again.' "

Understand **** man! JC = Joey Carbery.

As ror Lions captain - Heaslip lads, trust me!

 

[The Jones Boy]

I'm still wondering what young Master Daly has to do to get a man of the match award.
He was head and shoulders beyond any of his team mates in the Italy game.
He always looks to be positive and dangerous, he is super reliable.
He doesn't get himself stood up the way that Brown did when that Italian winger ran at him. (Gosh that was woeful)

But hey, England won comfortably and Eddie Jones and Dylan Hartley march on to yet another game and as they play worse so the scoreboard shows more points.
If this is what playing worse than the week before gets you, then all power to it.

 

[Mike Rolls]

This won't ever happen again, it's a tack tick very easily negated.
When the tackle is made and 'no ruck' is formed - defending side can come around within 1m of the tackle zone - because a ruck isn't formed the attacking side DONT have to play the ball, they can all stand there for 40 mins if they wish. Meaning the defending side will have to form a ruck by putting a man in and the players that have flooded round are all now offside when the ball is played which would result in a penalty without fail to the attacking team.

O'Shea has outed a sly trick the likes of Chiefs/LaRochelle have used in moderation and still lost heavily, but now it's been thought about its extremely easy to defend and probably won't be seen again .

I certainly hope so - if it is employed continually and successfully it will make a real mess of running Rugby. What really worried me, though, was how long England took to work out what was going on and how to counter it. I can't imagine the All Blacks getting that flummoxed!
Mike

 

[Peat]

Who's a better scrummaging tight head?
It's a depressing thought but I can't think of anyone. I know I'm in the minority these days but props (especially tight heads) should be judged on their scrummaging first.
There's plenty better in open play etc. but coles adequacy in the scrum is the best we've got, and we need it.
Hopefully Sinckler comes on leaps and bounds under Adam Jones' tutelage because he's v.v.good away from the scrum

As you know, I'm a big fan of getting as much loose play as you can out of the front row, but there is definitely a basic level of competency under which they can't fall as set-piece players.

Right now, Cole is the only guy we've got who manages that. He's not flawless, he's not a bully, but he's still a good international scrummager. I hope someone takes his place but right now I don't think anyone's all that close.

Will also wait and see just how dynamic the young tightheads look once they're all bulked out and are routinely playing 60+ minutes of internationals. Sinckler, to be fair, has passed the first bit of the test, but I wouldn't be surprised if Paul Hill slowed down. Hope not, but a lot of young props loose their zip quite early.