[2016 Super Rugby] Jaguares vs. Stormers (Round 5) 26/03/2016

[TRF_heineken]

Venue: Estadio Jose Amalfitani
Time: 23:40 CAT (SA, GMT+2)​

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Looking forward to this one. If the Jaguares play clever they ought to take but I am hoping they continue playing beautiful but reckless rugby. Lleyds, Zas and Kolbe can punish a loose team while we might struggle against an organized defense (Sharks) while without Du Preez and De Allende. And the Jagueres have a pack that can match or outmatch us.

Burger and De Jongh we probaby need there still but these two seniors need to step up this game. So far they have been speed bumps in an otherwise dynamic team.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Looking forward to this one. If the Jaguares play clever they ought to take but I am hoping they continue playing beautiful but reckless rugby. Lleyds, Zas and Kolbe can punish a loose team while we might struggle against an organized defense (Sharks) while without Du Preez and De Allende. And the Jagueres have a pack that can match or outmatch us.

Burger and De Jongh we probaby need there still but these two seniors need to step up this game. So far they have been speed bumps in an otherwise dynamic team.

I don't think the Stormers should play the same tactic they played against the Brumbies, with kicking so much to the back 3. The Jaguares' back three is a lot more dangerous than the Brumbies back three, and their pace is also better. But other than that, the Stormers should be up to the task.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Thanks for taking the time to post all the games H, much appreciated.

About the game, we need to win. We have to make a statement and we have to do it right now. No hiccups, no excuses, no bs. The team knows it and i am not sure that pressure is good for us, prolly not. They will go out for blood, all in. Not sure that is the smartest way tbh. Stormers defense is solid enough to contain us and make us pay with counterattack. I'm afraid that will leave us too exposed on defense, even more than we usually are.

I don't mind the jaguares being offensive, it's entertaining, but so far it's clearly not working. We either need to finish what we start more consistently when we attack or we need to pick when to play open and when not to. Clearly playing open rugby from your own 5 yds is not working for us. Either we raise our game or we need another strategy. You could argue it's a work in progress thingie, but in such case we need to go up the learning curve faster if we want to be competitive.
We've also become predictable and other teams are making us pay for it. I can't believe i'm saying this, but we need to kick more.

We're also a very temperamental team. We need to keep our composure and be patient. I think we've got the raw talent to bully most teams, but we are just not playing smart/tidy enough.

Additionally, i believe the people at UAR (who can barely throw a pissup at a brewery) will put even more pressure as losing our first 2 home games (and 3 on a row) would be huge blow to the franchise. They'd lose momentum.

The other thing i don't get is the time of the game. I can let it slide vs NZ and AUS teams, but they could play this way earlier and make it more convenient for SA and European people to watch.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Thanks for taking the time to post all the games H, much appreciated.

About the game, we need to win. We have to make a statement and we have to do it right now. No hiccups, no excuses, no bs. The team knows it and i am not sure that pressure is good for us, prolly not. They will go out for blood, all in. Not sure that is the smartest way tbh. Stormers defense is solid enough to contain us and make us pay with counterattack. I'm afraid that will leave us too exposed on defense, even more than we usually are.

I don't mind the jaguares being offensive, it's entertaining, but so far it's clearly not working. We either need to finish what we start more consistently when we attack or we need to pick when to play open and when not to. Clearly playing open rugby from your own 5 yds is not working for us. Either we raise our game or we need another strategy. You could argue it's a work in progress thingie, but in such case we need to go up the learning curve faster if we want to be competitive.
We've also become predictable and other teams are making us pay for it. I can't believe i'm saying this, but we need to kick more.

We're also a very temperamental team. We need to keep our composure and be patient. I think we've got the raw talent to bully most teams, but we are just not playing smart/tidy enough.

Additionally, i believe the people at UAR (who can barely throw a pissup at a brewery) will put even more pressure as losing our first 2 home games (and 3 on a row) would be huge blow to the franchise. They'd lose momentum.

The other thing i don't get is the time of the game. I can let it slide vs NZ and AUS teams, but they could play this way earlier and make it more convenient for SA and European people to watch.

Stormers fans will stay up for it. SARU knows the Capetonians will go the extra mile for WP/the Stormers. That's also the reason why we get the '2nd class' international fixtures; SA vs World XVs etc rather than the proper thing; we'll actually pitch up for it.

I concur fuly with your statements. A more balanced and pragmatic approach would serve the Jaguares well. Sure, they want to play entertaining rugby to promote the game but you'll lose casual fans if you don't win a couple of the bigger fixtures as well. You certainly have the player roster to play a balanced game and be able to adapt to conditions and play more than one style. If you play posession rather than territory the Stormers will beat most teams 9 times out of 10. That said the Jaguares have the pack to potentially counter our strengths. I suppose we'll have to wait and see. I expect the Jaguares should still be seen as favorites for this match though.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Stormers fans will stay up for it. SARU knows the Capetonians will go the extra mile for WP/the Stormers. That's also the reason why we get the '2nd class' international fixtures; SA vs World XVs etc rather than the proper thing; we'll actually pitch up for it.

I concur fuly with your statements. A more balanced and pragmatic approach would serve the Jaguares well. Sure, they want to play entertaining rugby to promote the game but you'll lose casual fans if you don't win a couple of the bigger fixtures as well. You certainly have the player roster to play a balanced game and be able to adapt to conditions and play more than one style. If you play posession rather than territory the Stormers will beat most teams 9 times out of 10. That said the Jaguares have the pack to potentially counter our strengths. I suppose we'll have to wait and see. I expect the Jaguares should still be seen as favorites for this match though.

Yup...

Also I don't think the time of this match would bother many Saffas, specifically this weekend. It's Easter, so Friday and Monday is a public holiday.

 

[Jaguares]

Jaguares' back three is a lot more dangerous than the Brumbies back three, and their pace is also better.

Are u serious? I'm not sure about it. Tomane is on fire ATM and Speight is top class. Maybe Aidan Toua is the Achilles heel. On the Jaguares side, Boffelli has great potential but he hasn't experience at international level (At least Toua played in Top 14) and Cordero has a lot of growing. The only reliable player is Joaquin Tuculet ATM.

 

[0tago]

I must thank the Stormers for giving the Landers a template on how to beat the Brumbies.

This fixture is very tasty, I would dearly love the Jags to win this one, I do respect the Stormers footy this season, but can't help but love the passion of the Jags, hope the Jags record their first home win, they deserve it after some fantastic rugby.

 

[Jaguares]

I must thank the Stormers for giving the Landers a template on how to beat the Brumbies.

Don't forget that Jaco Peyper was the MOTM

 

[TRF_heineken]

Are u serious? I'm not sure about it. Tomane is on fire ATM and Speight is top class. Maybe Aidan Toua is the Achilles heel. On the Jaguares side, Boffelli has great potential but he hasn't experience at international level (At least Toua played in Top 14) and Cordero has a lot of growing. The only reliable player is Joaquin Tuculet ATM.

Cordero's pace is unmatched. Since the World Cup I have taken a keen interest in him and he just keeps on performing. Tomane wasn't a threat at all against the Stormers and they kept him quiet the whole week. Speight only had that one good run and that was it.

If I look at current form, then the Jaguares back 3 are more dangerous, yes.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

@TRF_heineken, I think Tomane had a great game against us actually. If it wasn't for the fact we had 2 waves of cover defense and the brumbies were having to play from within their own half he'd have done more harm. Speight is IMO a step down from Tomane but a small one and still a winger I'd have in any SA team ahead of our own. The Brumbies are missing Mogg though. Add Kuridrani to the mix and the fact that they have play makers at 12 and 10 I'd say their backline and wide play is the Brumbies' key strength against the more serious teams, or at least those teams with good packs. The Jaguares are looking to keep the ball alive more out wide its true but IMO that can easily back-fire and though that willingness is to be commended and if it comes off then watch out.. the Stormers are smart operaters in defense. Don't be surprised if we see loose balls being collected and run in for a try or two from the likes of Kolbe, Lleyds, Zas, De Jongh and Van Wyk who are all dangerous on the counter even if we seem to be struggling to get the tries from constructive play sans Du Preez and De Allende.

That said I think the Jaguares have a somewhat similar setup with JMH back at 12 now and though I see their backline as a tad behind the Brumbies' as a unit I think we'll struggle to get the type of setpiece dominance against Creevy and co. than what we enjoyed vs the Brumbies and which was where the game was won for us. That coupled with superior field kicking where the Jaguares will be step up from the Brumbies if they choose to go that route especially with El Mag back- I am of course hoping they keep free-wheeling it like in these opening rounds.

@Jaguares, while I agree Peyper added to the size of our win I don't think he made as much of an impact as you suggest. Take away Lleyds' try and we still had a penalty advantage. Other than that weird call there was nothing out of the ordinary or at least more so than in every other game you've seen or will see this tournament. With the Stormers ussualy at the short end of those types of calls you'll hopefully excuse me for not being too embarrassed those few times we get the rub of it.

 

[0tago]

@

That said I think the Jaguares have a somewhat similar setup with JMH back at 12 now and though I see their backline as a tad behind the Brumbies' as a unit I think we'll struggle to get the type of setpiece dominance against Creevy and co. than what we enjoyed vs the Brumbies and which was where the game was won for us. That coupled with superior field kicking where the Jaguares will be step up from the Brumbies if they choose to go that route especially with El Mag back- I am of course hoping they keep free-wheeling it like in these opening rounds.

@[URL="http://www.therugbyforum.com/member.php?u=63264"]Jaguares, while I agree Peyper added to the size of our win I don't think he made as much of an impact as you suggest. Take away Lleyds' try and we still had a penalty advantage. Other than that weird call there was nothing out of the ordinary or at least more so than in every other game you've seen or will see this tournament. With the Stormers ussualy at the short end of those types of calls you'll hopefully excuse me for not being too embarrassed those few times we get the rub of it.

Sadly he killed the game and any contest with a lot of poor decisions, what's worrying is performances like that are just being accepted.

But I do agree The Stormers played the superior game, but they were allowed to and got away with murder at the breakdown which completely suffocated the Brumbies. But it's evident the Brumbies do not have a kicking game or a strong counter attacking game and actually really miss Mogg.

 

[Jaguares]

Jaguares starting XV to face Stormers:

1 Santiago Garcia Botta
2 Agustin Creevy
3 Felipe Arregui
4 Matias Alemanno
5 Tomas Lavanini
6 Pablo Matera
7 Tomas Lezana
8 Leonardo Senatore
9 Martin Landajo
10 Nicolas Sanchez
11 Gonzalez Amorosino
12 Jeronimo De La Fuente
13 Matias Moroni
14 Matias Orlando
15 Joaquin Tuculet

16 Julian Montoya
17 Roberto Tejerizo
18 Enrique Pieretto
19 Guido Petti
20 Facundo Isa
21 Gonzalo Bertranou
22 Santiago Gonzalez Iglesias
23 Santiago Cordero

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Are Petti and Corderon injured?

 

[argie]

No, natural rotation of players to prevent further phisycal load.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Thanks for the insight.
Considering the circumstances, i think it's a bad move. A very bad move. We've only played 3 games so far and we've had a game off in between those.

Heineken mentioned that Springbok contracted players cannot play more than 5 consecutive games, to prevent burn out before the international tests window starts. Is there something along the same lines for Pumas or is this a judgement call by management? Anyone know?
Still, both Cordero and Petti have played one consecutive game (round 3 we got a bye).

This game is super important imo. I'd rather go to NZ tired than with a 1-0-3 record. That would destroy us psychologically. We are a very temperamental team in that sense. 3 loses on a row, and then travelling to NZ?
This game is do or die for us. I can understand someone not playing for tactical reasons or injury but saving a player, for this game, just sounds silly.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Maybe they want to let loose Cordero against tired jetlagged legs for a big last 30?

 

[0tago]

Thanks for the insight.
Considering the circumstances, i think it's a bad move. A very bad move. We've only played 3 games so far and we've had a game off in between those.

Heineken mentioned that Springbok contracted players cannot play more than 5 consecutive games, to prevent burn out before the international tests window starts. Is there something along the same lines for Pumas or is this a judgement call by management? Anyone know?
Still, both Cordero and Petti have played one consecutive game (round 3 we got a bye).

This game is super important imo. I'd rather go to NZ tired than with a 1-0-3 record. That would destroy us psychologically. We are a very temperamental team in that sense. 3 loses on a row, and then travelling to NZ?
This game is do or die for us. I can understand someone not playing for tactical reasons or injury but saving a player, for this game, just sounds silly.

This is true, I agree with this 100%.

Mentally in rugby you have to be there and fighting, like no other sport. If the damage is done mentally, it can turn into a very long season that doesn't reflect the true quality of the squad. A loss to The Stormers here would put them in a really tough mind set going to NZ. It's a shame the Jags didn't get some slightly easier home fixtures first, along the lines of the Kings or Force etc.

With that being said, I still think the Jags have a very good chance of winning this game. They just have to be more clinical.

 

[Jaguares]

Stormers starting XV to face the Jaguares:

15 Cheslin Kolbe
14 Kobus van Wyk
13 Johnny Kotze
12 Juan de Jongh (co-captain)
11 Leolin Zas
10 Kurt Coleman
9 Nic Groom
8 Nizaam Carr
7 Siya Kolisi
6 Sikhumbuzo Notshe
5 JD Schickerling
4 Eben Etzebeth
3 Frans Malherbe (co-captain)
2 Scarra Ntubeni
1 JC Janse van Rensburg

Replacements:

16 Bongi Mbonambi, 17 Oli Kebble, 18 Vincent Koch, 19 Jan de Klerk, 20 Schalk Burger, 21 Louis Schreuder, 22 Jean-Luc du Plessis, 23 Huw Jones.

 

[0tago]

How long until the game starts?