[2016 Super Rugby] Brumbies vs. Chiefs (Round 6) 02/04/2016

[TRF Mr Fish]

Huge win for the Chiefs, did not see that coming...

 

[bazwaz]

...another masterclass from the Mighty Chiefs..

 

[austingtir]

Its a huge win in the complex of the competition as I dont think the Highlanders are going to win let alone with a bonus point against these guys. Although it is a home game for the HL so maybe there is a chance.

The HL have to play the Sharks, Brumbies, Saders, Chiefs all one after the other within 4 weeks! The only shining light in that is three of them are home games. So I can see the Chiefs retaining or maybe even extending that 2 point lead in the NZ conference from here.

 

[smartcooky]

Anyone who thought this Chiefs outfit wasn't the real deal because they were just beating up on a few easy beats will be reviewing that position right now.

Master-class is right. They just totally outclassed the top Aussie team.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Worth noting that all NZ teams are currently ranked in the top 9.

 

[austingtir]

The Scrum is still the obvious weak point in this Chiefs side and is clearly the key to beating them problem with that is that two of the top scrumming teams in the comp have come off second best against these guys already.

 

[nzlizard]

Yep sure but the Chiefs cant be this lucky all season. That Scrum is on shaky ground and every other team in the comp knows it.

Yeah but it is only one aspect of the game.

Chiefs dominating all other areas of the game each pretty much.

Surely it can't be luck each week?

Anyways massive win for the boys, you would have to back Mckenzie to score next week against the Blues and equal the most tries in consecutive matches also, looking forward to seeing him in a black jersey.

Ngatai showing why he will get an AB's call up, and is a 12 that can actually kick the ball and Lowe should be right there beside him.

Chiefs forward pack was outstanding around the field and with a few key players out.

 

[0tago]

Worth noting that all NZ teams are currently ranked in the top 9.

And that's after cutting each others throats. The Lions and Brumbies are the only ones to record a win vs an NZ side this year and that was in round 1 and 2 and the ref completely dicked the Chiefs in that Lions game.

Chiefs have raised the bar now, Brumbies might have been tired after their SA tour sure, but that's a hiding and you need to be better than that, especially at home, even with domination at scrum time the Chiefs backs are unreal. Cruden, Ngatai, McKenzie and Lowe are looking so good and I can't wait to see them in AB jersey's.

 

[austingtir]

Just saw Tony Johnstone say this is the biggest defeat in Brumbies history at home. So I guess that puts this in perspective. Even i'll admit this was a very impressive victory for the Chiefs.

 

[bazwaz]

Just saw Tony Johnstone say this is the biggest defeat in Brumbies history at home. So I guess that puts this in perspective. Even i'll admit this was a very impressive victory for the Chiefs.

..mate you're starting to see the light...we'll make a Chief supporter out of you yet....just repeat after me , Cruden's #1 Standoff in world rugby and Dave Rennie for AB coach..

 

[austingtir]

..mate you're starting to see the light...we'll make a Chief supporter out of you yet....just repeat after me , Cruden's #1 Standoff in world rugby and Dave Rennie for AB coach..

Dan's still playing and Hansens not dead yet!

 

[0tago]

..mate you're starting to see the light...we'll make a Chief supporter out of you yet....just repeat after me , Cruden's #1 Standoff in world rugby and Dave Rennie for AB coach..

Rennie is definitely the best option at the moment, I think he's got a better head on his shoulders than Ian Foster and Wayne Smith obviously isn't interested in the head honcho position. There's a couple of potential coaches overseas to look at, like Joe Schmidt and Vern Cotter, but hiring internally would be the best option. So Rennie gets my vote, I am concerned about his Australian record a tad, having only won 3 times in Aussie in the last 4-5 years, but he looks like he's getting over that with this performance.

Cruden at 10 is great, but with him kicking we might discover we need someone who can actually kick, especially in a "rebuilding year" we need solid points and consistent goal kicker, but what ever we never valued that when DC was out and Cruden improved some what, our try scoring abilities were off the planet though, so hopefully we're the same.

 

[Larksea]

Ive not seen the game but I have a replay recording some time in the next couple of days!

Chiefs seem to be finding that mojo they had for their back to back championships.

Cruden, McKenzie and Ngatai have formed what can now be called a triumvirate. Maybe a little harsh on the other guys but so much is sparked from this combination.

Cruden's actually looking physically more robust which is great you would have to say that and his kicking distance always been his weakness. But their is no doubt at all that Cruden has the best playmaking in the business. He will never be as physically gifted as carter but his mind for the game I think is the best ever in the modern era and he's unique in that he is a small buy with a ridiculous offload game, hes pretty much sonny bill just half the size!

But he's very unique in the way he plays. He has 10 on his back but he doesn't play first receiver nearly as often compared to Barrett/Carter. Will be interesting to see if the AB's allow him to play the same way or if he will be asked to play more as Carter/Barrett have been playing..

Having McKenzie there is definitely helping cruden as well. Mckenzie is getting to the point where he cannot be ignored as far as the All Blacks go. They can't say "oh he's still a bit young" or "not quite ready". he's burning the house down... Where to put him is the tricky part. Cruden will get the 10 and Ben Smith should be at 15, then Barrett has that bench spot pretty much locked in as well... Would they dare move Ben Smith to 14? Best option IMO is McKenzie at 14.

The prospect of the All Blacks having Aaron Smith, Ben Smith, Cruden, Ngatai and Mckenzie on the field at the same time must surely be giving test coaches around the world nightmares right now, throw Barrett in the mix as well. After they were sleeping easy knowing Carter, Nonu & Smith had stepped down.

 

[Larksea]

Rennie is definitely the best option at the moment, I think he's got a better head on his shoulders than Ian Foster and Wayne Smith obviously isn't interested in the head honcho position. There's a couple of potential coaches overseas to look at, like Joe Schmidt and Vern Cotter, but hiring internally would be the best option. So Rennie gets my vote, I am concerned about his Australian record a tad, having only won 3 times in Aussie in the last 4-5 years, but he looks like he's getting over that with this performance.

Cruden at 10 is great, but with him kicking we might discover we need someone who can actually kick, especially in a "rebuilding year" we need solid points and consistent goal kicker, but what ever we never valued that when DC was out and Cruden improved some what, our try scoring abilities were off the planet though, so hopefully we're the same.

Ian foster will never get the respect he deserves in some circles. He's a very good coach. No he never won a ***le with the chiefs but he stuck to selecting players who were actually from the chiefs region and he did very well with the squads he had which were constantly weak in the tight 5 and he basically never had a good 12. His chiefs were maybe the last NZ super rugby team to truly represent their region in terms of where the players were from. But it was a weakness compared to other franchises in terms of results.

Renee came in and the number of Waikato players in the chiefs squad went from something like ~14 to ~3-4 and he used his player connections and experience from under 20's coaching.

I think with Ian Foster we are now just seeing just how good of a coach he is, the aspects of the AB's he's been in control of have hardly skipped a beat.

As far as Hansen's replacement goes people better get used to the idea of Ian Foster. Graham Henry has established somewhat of a dynasty and Hansen has maintained that momentum. I don't believe NZRU will be keen on a scenario where the Coaching team are cleaned out and a completely new team come in. What I can see happening is a scenario where Ian Foster stays on and maybe becomes head coach and Renee comes in as his assistant, and if that goes well then Renee has a good change of eventually being head coach... Either way ian Foster is the Guy who is there that can maintain continuity in the setup when Hansen steps away, which could be after the Lions tour?

The Aussie Record aside though there is a lot to like about Dave Renee's coaching, he produces good squads year in year out and his teams have performed well even during injury crisis periods like now.

 

[smartcooky]

Larksea

Cruden's offload game isn't ridiculous, its bordering on outrageous. We saw the beginnings of it in the four matches v England in 2014, and it is a shame that was brought to a temporary halt with the 2015 injury that scrubbed his RWC chances.

Cruden
Sopoaga
Barrett
West
Mo'unga


The AB's are well covered with talented, skilled, and quick thinking 10's

 

[bazwaz]

...if you're going to argue continuation, one could probably also make a succession planning case involving Wayne Smith... with him being heavily involved with the ABs as he has with the Chiefs...

...and we already know what a great team Wayne Smith and Dave Rennie make with back to back Super Rugby ***les...not to mention the three world ***les the U20s team won with Rennie at the helm...a third Super Rugby ***le could just swing the vote in Rennie's favour whereas Foster is largely an anonymous figure in the background somewhere..

..but can't see Hansen giving away the sweet number he's got just yet somehow anyway just to spend time with his family...not something you can just walk away from easily I imagine after being at the helm of one of the greatest teams in world sport...what an anti-climax that would be...

 

[0tago]

The ideal situation is Hansen stays on until 2019 barring everything goes well, then Rennie comes in. We really run the risk of Rennie taking up another position else where though. I'm sure the big dollars will be coming his way if he's not brought into the AB's circle sooner rather than later. A pre-contract would be nice, or something giving him solid hope or tying him down mean time.

 

[nickdnz]

God I would hate Ian Foster to ever get near the head coaching role.

I disagree that continuation will really be a deciding factor after 2019. Yes Hansen was selected to take over in 2012. He had 8 years or so of experience as part of a coaching team which finally won a World Cup. But unlike Foster; who who was Plan B to Hansen? When Hansen was made head coach, the last Super Rugby coach to win a Super Rugby ***le was Robbie Deans back in 2008 (who at the time of Hansen's appointment was the Wallabies coach). The candidates were so thin I remember reading John Kirwan was interviewed (along with some credible coaches like Cotter and Schmidt). Now we have a coach who has won 2 ***les (and potentially more by the time 2017 / 2019 rolls around).

The other thing to consider is that if you continue selecting coaches from in-house - you're simply going to lose more and more Super Rugby coaches to overseas clubs and teams. It would be a reasonable reward making Rennie the head coach post 2019.

I think Rennie is an extremely astute coach - but not without flaws. He rotates more than any other coach I know of; and he does seem to have a knack for getting all of his players injured every single pre-season (that is probably bad luck as well, but it is every single season!). That said I think if he is overlooked it would be ridiculous.

 

[Larksea]

I think in the current setup that Ted has been the founding father of is that the workload is shared in a big way. Hansen has the label of "head coach" but in reality that means he does more work as a co-coordinator & or team leader rather than he has the greatest influence on the team itself. That and he takes the lions share of the media obligations. But behind the scenes his actual influence on the team is likely not anymore than people like Foster who's basically been in charge of everything to do with the backs and attack for the AB's since hes been there. I think he did defense for a while as well then Smith took that over again when he came back.

I think if anything the Robbie Deans vs. Ian Foster comparison/debate is a good one. Deans had a stellar super rugby record, failed in 2003 as Assistant AB coach and underachieved as head coach for the wallabies and now basically exists in rugby limbo coaching in Japan. Ian Foster got close but never won a super rugby ***le, was a surprise selection for the AB coaching staff which has proven to be a fantastic appointment. Probably shows super rugby success isn't always a good indicator.

I do have concerns over Renee coaching the AB's as well. His coaching style that overall has been successful with the chiefs probably isn't whats needed at test level... Heavy rotation, picking obscure players and turning them into really good super rugby players. I honestly think that if the AB's had lost the last WC and weren't playing well. Renee would be a great choice to rebuild and find success. But with the AB's in a situation where they have dominated world rugby for years, basically since 2005 with only a couple of blips along the way. We need to focus on evolution and maintaining momentum. I feel like if Renee came in and became the dominant personality in the AB coaching setup it would inevitably mean big changes, because his style is just so different.

 

[smartcooky]

Deans had a stellar super rugby record, failed in 2003 as Assistant AB coach and underachieved as head coach for the wallabies and now basically exists in rugby limbo coaching in Japan. Ian Foster got close but never won a super rugby ***le, was a surprise selection for the AB coaching staff which has proven to be a fantastic appointment. Probably shows super rugby success isn't always a good indicator.

Hang on a bit, lets be a little fairer than that!

Firstly, in 2001-2003, he was assistant to John Mitchell, who would have to be one of the worst coaches the All Blacks have had in a very long time. Mitchell was incomprehensible as he mumbled and stumbled his way through media engagements and crapped on and on about "outcomes" and "journeys". Mitchell could spend ten minutes answering a simple "yes or no" question with such a wide variety of gobbledegook that when he was finished. everyone was totally confused and still had no idea what his answer was. Someone like Deans, a no-nonsense sheep farmer from Glenmark, is never going to do well in a new-age bullsh¡t environment like that.

Then when Deans was made Wallabies coach, the knives were out for him right from the get-go. The Sydney Suits in the ARU did not want him in the job and did everything they could to undermine him. Add to that the Wallabies reputation for "player power", and really, Deans tenure was doomed from the outset. His record was the equal of Eddie Jones' and, the man who replaced him, Ewen McKenzie - hailed as "the saviour of Wallaby rugby", fared even worse.