[2016 RBS Six Nations] Round 1: Ireland vs. Wales (07/02/2016)

[profitius]

Ireland still aint named there team!? ..... scared :-D

At 1:45 here. http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/36834.php#.VrSm7PmLSM9

We might already know it.

 

[Amiga500]

S Zebo; A Trimble, J Payne, R Henshaw, K Earls; J Sexton, C Murray; J McGrath, R Best (capt), N White; D Toner, M McCarthy; CJ Stander, T O’Donnell, J Heaslip.


Joke.

1. How can they justify Zebo in the squad, never mind the 23 let alone the friggin team is beyond me.
2. Does Joe see Robbie Henshaw as Ireland's 12 long term? [RWC2019] If not, why is he playing him here?
3. Does Joe see Jared Payne as Ireland's 13 long term? [RWC2019] If not, why is he playing him here?


Best of luck to TOD - good to see him back in green after the injury nightmare. Him and Heaslip need to have big big games on the ground for us to have a chance.

 

[Jakedood]

S Zebo; A Trimble, J Payne, R Henshaw, K Earls; J Sexton, C Murray; J McGrath, R Best (capt), N White; D Toner, M McCarthy; CJ Stander, T O’Donnell, J Heaslip.


Joke. How can they justify Zebo in the squad, never mind the 23 let alone the friggin team is beyond me.

This is insane. Zebo is so out of form. We have 2 fantastic full backs playing centre, and a highly promising centre who would revel in the physical confrontations provided by the welsh midfield. And yet not used. I just don't understand what the plan is if a kick chase doesn't work. I'm baffled

 

[munstermuffin]

S Zebo; A Trimble, J Payne, R Henshaw, K Earls; J Sexton, C Murray; J McGrath, R Best (capt), N White; D Toner, M McCarthy; CJ Stander, T O’Donnell, J Heaslip.


Joke.

1. How can they justify Zebo in the squad, never mind the 23 let alone the friggin team is beyond me.
2. Does Joe see Robbie Henshaw as Ireland's 12 long term? [RWC2019] If not, why is he playing him here?
3. Does Joe see Jared Payne as Ireland's 13 long term? [RWC2019] If not, why is he playing him here?


Best of luck to TOD - good to see him back in green after the injury nightmare. Him and Heaslip need to have big big games on the ground for us to have a chance.

To answer.
1. Who is alternatives? I agree Zebo isn't in best of form but he was always Schmidts 2nd choice 15 and what alternative was there once he said Payne is a centre?
2 & 3. Not necessarily 12&13 but yes he's been on record many times saying he believes this to be their best position.

On TOD I've a feeling he will have a stormer as will CJ.

I slate Schmidt a bit but in
Trimble
McCarthy
CJ
And TOD he's rewarded form.

Earls proven scoring record and signs of a return to form I think got him in.

 

[profitius]

Its not as bad as people make out. The glaring omission is McCloskey who has been one of the form players in Europe this season. Schmidt does love to play players out of position and form means nothing to him.


Positives. Marmion, James Cronin, Furlong on the bench, Stander starting. More dangerous back 3 than the world cup.


Theres still enough firepower there to take care of Wales.


15. Simon Zebo (Cork Con/Munster) 21
14. Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster) 58
13. Jared Payne (Ulster) 10
12. Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht) 15
11. Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster) 46
10. Jonathan Sexton (St Mary's College/Leinster) 56
9. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster) 42

1. Jack McGrath (St. Mary's College/Leinster) 25
2. Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) 89 Captain
3. Nathan White (Connacht) 8
4. Mike McCarthy (Lansdowne/Leinster) 17
5. Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster) 31
6. CJ Stander (Munster)*
7. Tommy O'Donnell (UL Bohemians/Munster) 9
8. Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster) 80 Vice-Captain

Replacements
16. Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster) 48
17. James Cronin (Dolphin/Munster) 2
18. Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster) 3
19. Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster) 34
20. Rhys Ruddock (St Mary's College/Leinster) 6
21. Kieran Marmion (Corinthians/Connacht) 4
22. Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster) 25
23. David Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster) 14

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

To answer.
1. Who is alternatives? I agree Zebo isn't in best of form but he was always Schmidts 2nd choice 15 and what alternative was there once he said Payne is a centre?
2 & 3. Not necessarily 12&13 but yes he's been on record many times saying he believes this to be their best position.

On TOD I've a feeling he will have a stormer as will CJ.

I slate Schmidt a bit but in
Trimble
McCarthy
CJ
And TOD he's rewarded form.

Earls proven scoring record and signs of a return to form I think got him in.

1. Same could be said for Madigan and Jackson, most here think he's got that wrong.
Has TO'D played much rugby and if so has it really been good? VDF is the form 7 in the country.

That team won't likely beat the Welsh team, back three is too weak to go aerial so unless we're going to start throwing the ball around we'll struggle. I like our front five against theirs though Toner needs a big game.

 

[Groundhog]

1. Same could be said for Madigan and Jackson, most here think he's got that wrong.
Has TO'D played much rugby and if so has it really been good? VDF is the form 7 in the country.

That team won't likely beat the Welsh team, back three is too weak to go aerial so unless we're going to start throwing the ball around we'll struggle. I like our front five against theirs though Toner needs a big game.

Zebo shouldn't be playing. That's just glaringly obvious I think, but I think O'Donnell is a safe bet. The rugby he's played since he came back has been picking up where he left up. Engine looks huge. VDF is the real deal but it's still a big call throwing a guy that young into a baptism of fire like that. He only came on the scene this year. He should win his first cap from the bench. Really like that backrow

 

[munstermuffin]

1. Same could be said for Madigan and Jackson, most here think he's got that wrong.
Has TO'D played much rugby and if so has it really been good? VDF is the form 7 in the country.

That team won't likely beat the Welsh team, back three is too weak to go aerial so unless we're going to start throwing the ball around we'll struggle. I like our front five against theirs though Toner needs a big game.

Yes TOD has played a fair bit in good form. But I'd agree VDF is in better form. But Stander has been the form back row player and Schmidt probably didn't want to throw the 2 in together.
Yes I agree Jackson should be ahead of Madigan but it's not like for like. However bad people rate him there Madigan has been at 10 a lot. Zebo and RK are our only 2 15s. Yes Payne and Henshaw can play there and if I was picking I'd put Payne to 15 and McCloskey at centre but Schmidt has said he sees both as centres.

Our back 3 are very good to chase which is key to kick chase. We were never going to out catch North etc but still potential to do damage and play the perfect kick chase game. Our pack I think can come up trumps and despite many others fears I think we've the better bench to impact a game. If Sexton and Murray turn up we could do serious damage.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Yes TOD has played a fair bit in good form. But I'd agree VDF is in better form. But Stander has been the form back row player and Schmidt probably didn't want to throw the 2 in together.
Yes I agree Jackson should be ahead of Madigan but it's not like for like. However bad people rate him there Madigan has been at 10 a lot. Zebo and RK are our only 2 15s. Yes Payne and Henshaw can play there and if I was picking I'd put Payne to 15 and McCloskey at centre but Schmidt has said he sees both as centres.

Our back 3 are very good to chase which is key to kick chase. We were never going to out catch North etc but still potential to do damage and play the perfect kick chase game. Our pack I think can come up trumps and despite many others fears I think we've the better bench to impact a game. If Sexton and Murray turn up we could do serious damage.

That's fair, I've watched Munster the least of the provinces. If TO'D's going well Im happy, he's always performed in green!

 

[profitius]

11 changes from the 23 that played Argentina.

Avg caps
forwards: 32
backs: 35
squad: 28


Retired: POC
Injured: POM, SOB, Henderson, Healy, R Kearney, Bowe, Ross, Moore, Henry

 

[munstermuffin]

That's fair, I've watched Munster the least of the provinces. If TO'D's going well Im happy, he's always performed in green!

TOD zillion not let us down and as I said only selections really people have real issue with are
15. Zebo was last 1 left.
Centre. McCloskey unlucky but Joe made the call.
And to a lesser extent back row but I think Stander fully justifies his spot. TOD in as SOB out and playing well. VDF and Ruddock are playing well too. Heaslip there for experience. But it wasmore a case there of which form guys to pick.

 

[Amiga500]

To answer.
1. Who is alternatives? I agree Zebo isn't in best of form but he was always Schmidts 2nd choice 15 and what alternative was there once he said Payne is a centre?

Both Henshaw and Payne are better 15s.

Henshaw is not Ireland's long term 12 and neither is Payne Ireland's long term 13. So why persist playing them there.


If Joe doesn't want to go back on his previous statement(s) of saying they are better centres, then not seen to date stubbornness and pride is going to cost Ireland in both short and long term

- - - Updated - - -

Zebo and RK are our only 2 15s

:huh:

On what f__king planet?

Neither are even the 2nd best full back in the squad.

 

[lynam1104]

As I said I don't agree with it, and I can't really see any reasonable justification made for the calls made in regards to centre's and FB. It was announced in the initial squad announcement that Payne was a centre not an outside back so it's not shocking, I just firmly believe its the wrong call.

 

[munstermuffin]

Both Henshaw and Payne are better 15s.

Henshaw is not Ireland's long term 12 and neither is Payne Ireland's long term 13. So why persist playing them there.


If Joe doesn't want to go back on his previous statement(s) of saying they are better centres, then not seen to date stubbornness and pride is going to cost Ireland in both short and long term

- - - Updated - - -



:huh:

On what f__king planet?

Neither are even the 2nd best full back in the squad.

Ok I'll start at the top and spell it out.

Joe Schmidt is coach. He's been saying he sees them as Ireland's centres. If Henshaw goes to Leinster it was to play at centre. So whether you like it or I like it that is where he seemingly is seen going forward with regards Ireland. Schmidt has said time and time again he wants Payne at 13. So again (and I rate him as best 15) that is where he will be when with Ireland it seems.

As for bottom I guess you answered on top bit. If you read properly I stated Schmidt sees Zebo and RK are only 2 15s in squad. Yes Henshaw and Payne are 15s but on this planet neither will be considered as a 15 at this moment.

 

[munstermuffin]

As I said I don't agree with it, and I can't really see any reasonable justification made for the calls made in regards to centre's and FB. It was announced in the initial squad announcement that Payne was a centre not an outside back so it's not shocking, I just firmly believe its the wrong call.

This is my whole point. Same for Henshaw. If Schmidt sees Rory Best as a 10 then it wouldn't matter what we think as its that mans opinion that counts.

 

[Slamdunk]

Its not as bad as people make out. The glaring omission is McCloskey who has been one of the form players in Europe this season. Schmidt does love to play players out of position and form means nothing to him.


Positives. Marmion, James Cronin, Furlong on the bench, Stander starting. More dangerous back 3 than the world cup.


Theres still enough firepower there to take care of Wales.


15. Simon Zebo (Cork Con/Munster) 21
14. Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster) 58
13. Jared Payne (Ulster) 10
12. Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht) 15
11. Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster) 46
10. Jonathan Sexton (St Mary's College/Leinster) 56
9. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster) 42

1. Jack McGrath (St. Mary's College/Leinster) 25
2. Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) 89 Captain
3. Nathan White (Connacht) 8
4. Mike McCarthy (Lansdowne/Leinster) 17
5. Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster) 31
6. CJ Stander (Munster)*
7. Tommy O'Donnell (UL Bohemians/Munster) 9
8. Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster) 80 Vice-Captain

Replacements
16. Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster) 48
17. James Cronin (Dolphin/Munster) 2
18. Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster) 3
19. Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster) 34
20. Rhys Ruddock (St Mary's College/Leinster) 6
21. Kieran Marmion (Corinthians/Connacht) 4
22. Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster) 25
23. David Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster) 14

Hmmmm, that's confidence with a hint of arrogance laced with complacency. Especially when you consider that the last two times we have met with full squads (discounting the World Cup try out in Cardiff) the one thing full-strength Ireland certainly didn't have was firepower. One can never predict with any accuracy but even allowing for bad weather, Wales have just been handed a huge boost with this Irish line-up. Everyone wants Grand Slams and championships but in our case this year it all rests on the game in Dublin, we can get momentum and move on with confidence if we win.

With both teams at full-strength even if BOD and POC Were available and SOB not injured this game would be 50/50. Given Irish injuries and this selection Wales simply have to take advantage and get stuck into the task at hand.

If our very strong 15 cannot get past Ireland on Sunday then we don't really deserve anything out of this years 6N. We cannot argue that we are not favourites now, and have to assume that mantle and handle it. We should have too much grunt, pace and power up front to lose this. If our pack can get on top in poor conditions, Sexton will not gave the time and platform to deliver your game plan. It's the only plan you have.

Ireland's whole game rests on the shoulders of one player, that's a massive risk at this level.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

This is my whole point. Same for Henshaw. If Schmidt sees Rory Best as a 10 then it wouldn't matter what we think as its that mans opinion that counts.

Ulster should try this next time IHump goes off form, I could see him managing the game beautifully from the bench.

 

[collace]

Next time iHumph goes off form? When was the last time he was on form? I'd put Mike Ross in there ahead of him the way he's playing at the minute!

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Hmmmm, that's confidence with a hint of arrogance laced with complacency. Especially when you consider that the last two times we have met with full squads (discounting the World Cup try out in Cardiff) the one thing full-strength Ireland certainly didn't have was firepower. One can never predict with any accuracy but even allowing for bad weather, Wales have just been handed a huge boost with this Irish line-up. Everyone wants Grand Slams and championships but in our case this year it all rests on the game in Dublin, we can get momentum and move on with confidence if we win.

With both teams at full-strength even if BOD and POC Were available and SOB not injured this fame would be 50/50. Given Irish injuries and this selection Wales simply have to take advantage and get stuck into the task at hand.

If our very strong 15 cannot get past Ireland on Sunday then we don't really deserve anything out of this years 6N. We cannot argue that we are not favourites now, and gave to assume that mantle and handle it. We should have too much grunt, pace and power up front to lose this. If our pack can get on top in poor conditions, Sexton will not gave the time and platform to deliver your game plan. It's the only plan you have.

Ireland's whole game rests on the shoulders of one player, that's a massive risk at this level.

Joe's smarter that that bro! I'd have Wales as 1-3 point favourites and nothing more. Looking into it more I'm getting a whiff of Schmidt genius too, we're going to play a wider game with that backrow and back three, the halfbacks and centres have won championships and the front five can more than cope too. I think this game will be a lot different to anything we've witnessed under Schmidt.

- - - Updated - - -

Next time iHumph goes off form? When was the last time he was on form? I'd put Mike Ross in there ahead of him the way he's playing at the minute!

He wasn't actively losing games last I saw him! This thread is proving I didn't watch enough rugby in January!!

 

[Peat]

Unless my hasty maths are mistaken, Rory has more caps than the rest of the tight 5 combined. Or more caps than the least experienced half of the 23.


The centre thing is a bit baffling.