[2015 Six Nations] Wales vs England (Round 1)

[Patchey]

First thoughts:

The red had a shocker at the breakdown for both sides.

Watson really stepped up. Haven't really rated him in the past and would have chosen Nowell myself. But tonight he really shone.

Joseph was as good as I hoped.

North should never have stayed on the pitch. I hope some review of concussion policy comes soon.

Easter is great.

I thought Biggar was Wales' best player. Great in defense and his game management was solid.

England's front row subs were disappointing.

That WAS a try,

What a man.

 

[Ospreylian]

Congratulations England. A crap day to be a Wales fan. Haven't had a chance to read much reaction yet, but I'll just post my little bit.

I might just be talking with emotion after such a deflating defeat, but I feel like tonight was a huge step backwards for this Welsh team. It felt like in the Autumn Wales were growing with each game and gradually beginning to iron out some of their main areas of concern. But tonight we really struggled in areas that I thought we had sorted out to some degree. The scrum was a massive concern, and obviously expected Lee to hold his own a bit better than he did. It's why I still believe Adam should be in that squad as valuable back-up. The line-out seemed to start off solidly in the first half (which I was fairly surprised with because that very rarely is the case for Wales) but then Hibbard seemed to lose his cool again and didn't look confident at all.

Next to the attacking game, or lack thereof. I hardly saw Roberts, Davies, Cuthbert or North make any decent ground. Why Cuthbert is even in the 23 I will never know. He was inept tonight, and showed no spark whatsoever. Liam Williams should easily be starting ahead of him, he did more in the 3 or 4 minutes he was on as a replacement for North than Cuthbert did all game. Halfpenny was a shining light in the back three, and Biggar played out of his skin too, but Wales have again stuck to their predictable attacking game plan and England had them sussed. I really still do believe Scott Williams should be in the starting XV potentially ahead of Davies, who made a lot of errors tonight. Williams offers more creative flair in attack and it's always worth a shot at this point.

I do sometimes wonder if this is all primarily the fault of Howley, rather than Gatland. Wales' attacking game seems to have stagnated for the last few years and nothing new ever seems to be brought to the table. Why is it that North can be involved so much in Northampton games and score 4 tries against the Ospreys and then you never see him touch the ball for Wales?

In fairness to England they really choked Wales in the second half, especially Haskell, who I thought deserved MOTM. He was being a real nuisance in the rucks and mauls, holding Welsh attackers up on numerous occasions. He'll be chuffed with his performance this evening, and rightly so. Watson is also a great prospect for England, an exciting player.

A few big calls need to be made for Wales for next week, or we could be facing tough times in Murrayfield. I'd drop Cuthbert and Davies and bring in Liam and Scott, let's get this back line moving and creating more. Would also potentially consider giving Baldwin a chance to prove himself in the lineout, or get Owens on the job if he is fit.

 

[Patchey]

Swing loooowww sweet Billy T
Coming forth to roger your mmmmuuuummmm

Dying. He has to start, if only so I can sing that.

 

[SharksFan86]

Well first half Wales looked pretty good but we also made it easy for them giving penalties away in our own half and they were punished, was a good fight back though and a great pick up and dive over line by Watson.

Onto second half and what a start, our forwards dominated and a 20 phase try showed great effort, guts but more importantly patience and from then we looked solid and carried it on for the whole half.

We really do have great strength in depth and was also impressed with Twelvetrees when he came on.

George Ford played well but didn't think he deserved MOM, I would have given it to Attwood who was brilliant but there were a few contenders really.

Overall great to start with a win over Wales and bring on rest of 6 nations.

 

[Bigbee]

Launchberry is the single player in that list that can turn a game around. The rest are great players in there own right but Lauchers is a workhorse that keeps grinding away doing what he is supposed to do very well. The pulls out a touch of genius as well

Go launchers ......make a difference.!

Get well soon!

 

[Rich Taff]

Dear all.
We that was a close game. Good and bands from both sides. I hate all the rubbish and gamesmanship at the beginning of a game. It's particularly disgraceful and masks wales to so pityful when they loose.

There was on aspect of the game I thought was absolutely disgusting to watch. I am a licensed RFU coach we are heavily instructed and taught the consequences of concussion on the field and repeated knocks to the head. Look up shontay harpe!

George North great player he is took a couple of very severe knocks to the head. The third knocked him out cold . The whole rugby club cried out he's out cold virtually as he hit the ground!
The welsh officials must of seen this . If not they were grossly incompetent. They chose to keep him on because Cuthbert was in the sin bin and they didn't want to loose North.......that's an absolute disgrace to do that to a player for the sake of a win. A disgrace on rugby. Hold your head low in shame!
How will Wales feel if the unthinkable happens tomorrow and he collapses. For the sake of a win. Will wales sink to any depth.
Note the rules are very clear and specific in the event of concussion or Suspected concussion. The welsh officials should be cited!

- - - Updated - - -

Dear all.
We that was a close game. Good and bands from both sides. I hate all the rubbish and gamesmanship at the beginning of a game. It's particularly disgraceful and masks wales to so pityful when they loose.

There was on aspect of the game I thought was absolutely disgusting to watch. I am a licensed RFU coach we are heavily instructed and taught the consequences of concussion on the field and repeated knocks to the head. Look up shontay harpe!

George North great player he is took a couple of very severe knocks to the head. The third knocked him out cold . The whole rugby club cried out he's out cold virtually as he hit the ground!
The welsh officials must of seen this . If not they were grossly incompetent. They chose to keep him on because Cuthbert was in the sin bin and they didn't want to loose North.......that's an absolute disgrace to do that to a player for the sake of a win. A disgrace on rugby. Hold your head low in shame!
How will Wales feel if the unthinkable happens tomorrow and he collapses. For the sake of a win. Will wales sink to any depth.
Note the rules are very clear and specific in the event of concussion or Suspected concussion. The welsh officials should be cited!

First up, I dispute your 'I'm a licensed RFU coach' claim, due to the fact you cannot spell, nor use grammar, and are so incredibly blinkered. I suggest making another account on a different forum (maybe there's a fantasy rugby fan forum, where you can pretend to be older/more intelligent/experienced/less of an idiot?)
Secondly...well I don't think a second point is needed.

 

[BraddersTheDog]

Excellent second half performance, particularly in defence.

 

[Spartan]

Brilliant performance by us, Twelvetrees was magnificant along with Jonathan Joseph. Gives us a nice start to the competition still a way to go though.

People were literally LIVID in the pub George North was still on the field, English media now picking it up though and questioning Gatland over it, absolutely senseless.

 

[Patchey]

Who do you drop after a performance like that? them selection headaches cold be Englands undoing.

Ben Youngs, Burrell, Kruis, Mako Vunnipola,

One of Croft or Easter needs to go for a second row.

But at the end of the day the guys who played today did a pretty damn good job so...

 

[j'nuh]

Brilliant performance by us, Twelvetrees was magnificant along with Jonathan Joseph. Gives us a nice start to the competition still a way to go though.

People were literally LIVID in the pub George North was still on the field, English media now picking it up though and questioning Gatland over it, absolutely senseless.

Yeah, it seems strange to blame Gatland for that. If North was concussed, then it's the responsibility of the medical team to be monitoring it and forcing the change if necessary.

Ben Youngs, Burrell, Kruis, Mako Vunnipola,

One of Croft or Easter needs to go for a second row.

But at the end of the day the guys who played today did a pretty damn good job so...

Why Ben Youngs?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

It feels weird to say it but 12trees actually did well... Could this be the moment of delivery? Could he have FINALLY found his form and be the 12 we've always wanted him to be? It's in his damn name!

In all seriousness I was worried when he came on but damn he put in a nice shift.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yeah, I'd keep playing Youngs as long as this form holds up! Passed well, few little darts to keep defeces honest and defensively excellent.
Can't remember how his box kicking was, but that's probably an improvement as it's usually pretty crap so stands out.

 

[Spartan]

Yeah, it seems strange to blame Gatland for that. If North was concussed, then it's the responsibility of the medical team to be monitoring it and forcing the change if necessary.

Wasn't blaming Warren, just saying the press were asking him about it, medical team definitely at fault.

 

[Patchey]

Yeah, it seems strange to blame Gatland for that. If North was concussed, then it's the responsibility of the medical team to be monitoring it and forcing the change if necessary.


Why Ben Youngs?

About the first point, yes and no. He obviously passed the concussion test when he came off first time. But after that hit on Brown, which was shown on the big screen, I'd expect any decent coach to bring a player off. He was so obviously out of it that it was both embarrassing and a little sad to see him kept on. If that has been Watson or May I would have been furious at Lancaster for not taking him off.

About Youngs, I though he kicked terribly and gave some dodgy service. His habit of stepping away from the ruck before he passes kills our momentum, Care and Wigglesworth (of the EPS 9s) for me.

 

[j'nuh]

About the first point, yes and no. He obviously passed the concussion test when he came off first time. But after that hit on Brown, which was shown on the big screen, I'd expect any decent coach to bring a player off. He was so obviously out of it that it was both embarrassing and a little sad to see him kept on. If that has been Watson or May I would have been furious at Lancaster for not taking him off.

As I understand it, if the medical team force North off, then he can come back on if he passes the concussion test. If Gatland makes the substitute of his own accord, then he won't have the option to bring that player back on. If the medical team doesn't act appropriately to bring a concussed player off, then coaches may be inclined to delay bringing that player off, hoping that the medical team will make the change for him, so that the player might be able to come on later. Also, for all Gatland knows, North could be "acting out of it" to cover up for mistakes, or North's body language may be off for another reason. It's for the medical team to assess every head injury and determine when a player needs to be brought off for further assessment. If a player is so obviously out of it, then you have to wonder why the medical team aren't acting, rather than why Gatland wasn't.

About Youngs, I though he kicked terribly and gave some dodgy service. His habit of stepping away from the ruck before he passes kills our momentum, Care and Wigglesworth (of the EPS 9s) for me.

I went with Youngs for MOTM. I thought his darting was very effective. For example, it was one of his darts that shortened the Welsh blindside enough to create the space for Brown and Watson to work a try together. If you watch that try again, it only works because North is pulled inwards and Halfpenny has to come onto the wing to make up the numbers, leaving behind the spot in which Brown kicked into. He also played at a much higher pace than we are used to seeing.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Bring on Shane Williams!
Dire performance in 2nd half by Wales.

This +1
Too many big lumps out wide is too predictable. Wales nee some sharp footwork, wicked acceleration and a shimmy instead of more Jonah Lomu wannabees

 

[stus768]

.


I went with Youngs for MOTM. I thought his darting was very effective. For example, it was one of his darts that shortened the Welsh blindside enough to create the space for Brown and Watson to work a try together. If you watch that try again, it only works because North is pulled inwards and Halfpenny has to come onto the wing to make up the numbers, leaving behind the spot in which Brown kicked into. He also played at a much higher pace than we are used to seeing.

He was integral to speeding the game up in the second half. He started to pass in front of some players and the runs off the base worked well when people ran off him.

The only thing that does annoy me is the little dip he does with the ball before he passes.

 

[Groundhog]

Seriously, what was up with the North thing. If a guy goes limp falling to the ground after a head nock, there's no way he should be allowed to play on. Regardless of everything else, it's the medical teams job to put their foot down and put the player's welfare first. Somebody ****ed up here.

 

[Every Time Ref]

What a game, not a great spectacle for a neutral but gritty and tense, classic six nations stuff. Of course England winning automatically makes it a better game for me.

Really good game from Youngs, I'd still like to see him sometimes fire passes straight from the base rather than always taking a couple of steps, but I've been a big critic of him and today he was very good. Ford was also good, very composed for a youngster in a pressure environment, kept the defence interested and brought his class short passing game (one of his biggest strengths) at opportune moments, although I'd question his MOM award following a slightly shaky first half. Credit to him for not letting it affect him though.

I was also impressed with Billy Vunipola, in a way he had a quiet game, he certainly didn't make the big headline-grabbing runs he sometimes does, but I really liked the way he lasted 80 minutes, put in a lot of carries and tackles and generally seemed to work hard - a sign of maturity in my opinion, understanding that the less obvious stuff can be crucial. Haskell's performance unfortunately will be remembered for a missed tackle for the Wales try (really no excuse from a dominant scrum) and the idiotic running into the post when clean through, but aside from those two he had a really good game, making good yards and tackles and having an impact on every ruck he hit. The back row in general was the best I've seen an England back row for a while.

I admit I am pretty biased on Jonathan Joseph, and have been calling for him to get a chance for England for a while, but thought he was excellent - not a day for his style of attacking rugby but defended very well, was organised and made good decisions and looked very much at home - and of course a great try, yes the tackling was poor, but he showed good footwork and a nice bit of inventiveness for the audacious dummied offload before going over. Watson also looked good, dealt with the high balls well (which has been a slight weakness in the past) and looked solid in defence and threatening in attack.

I'm pretty ****** now, and was even more ****** while watching the game not to mention very emotionally charged, so maybe all that is rubbish but whatever, I just watched England win at the Millenium stadium, I don't really care if my analysis is crap ...

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I think as well this is yet another nail in the coffin of the claim that the Bath backs can't defend. None of Ford, Joseph or Watson struggled with gainline defending and infact our biggest defensive messup was Haskell and May (missing the tackle and then not trusting the inside defender, funnily enough Ford). Hopefully we can put this to bed once and for all, the Bath backs are not liabilities in defense. Now perhaps we can stick with choosing them for what they can offer in attack?