[2015 Six Nations] England

[Tony Manx]

Telegraph reporting that Cips and Easter have or will be talked to about 6n call up!

 

[goodNumber10]

Telegraph reporting that Cips and Easter have or will be talked to about 6n call up!

except that later in the article he says cirpiani will be called into the saxons squad...

 

[Tony Manx]

except that later in the article he says cirpiani will be called into the saxons squad...

Does he say that or the writer of the article?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

To be fair it's not exactly a massive stretch to say Cipriani will be in the Saxons.

Ford, Farrell, Myler in the EPS,
Cipriani, Slade in the Saxons

Burns ain't getting enough game time to be a viable option, imo, and the game time he is getting isn't good enough.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Can't see Cipriani having much motivation to stay in England if French clubs offer him a nice salary. He must realise by now that he simply will not get the 10 position regardless of what he does.

 

[McTallshort]

Can't see Cipriani having much motivation to stay in England if French clubs offer him a nice salary. He must realise by now that he simply will not get the 10 position regardless of what he does.

And if he does will it really be a problem? Lets have it right having Cipriani at 10 might win you a few games but would you want him there for a world cup semi final?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

And if he does will it really be a problem? Lets have it right having Cipriani at 10 might win you a few games but would you want him there for a world cup semi final?

Over Farrell/Myler?
Every time.


People love to play him off as some flash in the pan, every now and then he'll pull something out of the bag, maverick, but he really isn't.
Sure he's got that side to his game, but some of our "biggest" wins (Bath away, Saints home, last season, and Saints home this season) have been proper slogs with him quietly pulling the strings in the background.
People really need to start paying attention to how he's playing now and not how he played years ago.

 

[McTallshort]

Over Farrell/Myler?
Every time.

Over Farrell? really last minute penalty to win it and you would rather have cips? No sorry Farrell for is faults is mentally much stronger and frankly tougher and although it would be nice watching Cips dancing round the defenses of Italy or Samoa against the bigger boys I would rather have any of the other 3.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Farrell misses more tackles than Cipriani per game. Danny also makes more, so it's not like he's hiding.
Danny's also kicked his fair share of match winners.

4 points down with 5mins on the clock - camped in your 22. Would you rather Farrell passing to a static receiver 10m behind the gain line, or Cipriani pulling the strings?

 

[McTallshort]

Farrell sorry I just dont think Cipriani is mentally tough enough for the top level and if he did go to France like Steffon Armitage before him its wouldnt be as greater loss as the media makes out.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

You're wrong

 

[McTallshort]

Im right

 

[j'nuh]

Farrell couldn't pull the strings of a puppet, let alone an international backline. His kicking game in-field is about as average as his kicking game from the tee. And he can make a big hit, provided he doesn't tackle air. His saving grace is that he's silently bad, more likely to choke his own team by being mediocre throughout, than by making obvious blunders.

 

[McTallshort]

Have you been drinking j'nuh?

 

[Peat]

the England coaching team singled Defence out for JJ to improve.

I'm not sure it's worth comparing Burrell against JJ as they play different positions at club level, where LB is a pretty solid defender at 12 and has been pretty solid for England at 13 (I don't recall him getting minced at any point but feel free to correct me).

On Eastmond, i think you have to look at where the system in NZ was failing. In short it's all very well saying it's only one game and he wasn't alone and so on but the point is NZ singled him out for specific treatment and that had a huge detrimental effect on the entire defence - that is a huge point to take into consideration.

Second test against NZ was a pretty bad day at the office for him defensively and one that's led me to look very hard at Burrell's defensive game ever since.

I am very surprised to read that they've asked JJ to improve on his defence; I thought it was a strength.

 

[goodNumber10]

Farrell misses more tackles than Cipriani per game. Danny also makes more, so it's not like he's hiding.

that's pretty misleading though mate.

You have to look at a few things like how Sarries defend, and where those missed tackles are made. Sarries have a much more aggresive defence than Sale. It's all about line speed, so Fazlet might miss more tackles etc... but his defence has far more of a positive outcome on the game than cipriani's does.

Danny's also kicked his fair share of match winners.

4 points down with 5mins on the clock - camped in your 22. Would you rather Farrell passing to a static receiver 10m behind the gain line, or Cipriani pulling the strings?

What big games has Cipriani won? Was he goal kicking when he won his medals with Wasps?

Second test against NZ was a pretty bad day at the office for him defensively and one that's led me to look very hard at Burrell's defensive game ever since.

I am very surprised to read that they've asked JJ to improve on his defence; I thought it was a strength.

Do you have some specifics @Peat ?

I don't have a particular worry about JJ's defence, his pace gives him the ability to recover quickly....

 

[ratsapprentice]

JJ's defence is second only to Barritt's IMO.
Honestly, it's really ****ing good.

 

[Tony Manx]

You're wrong

I am not qualified to really comment with any knowledge on their differences, positive or negative, as have not seen either of them playing a huge amount this season.

What I would say is that, from what I have seen and heard from pundits like Greenwood, Cips has been excellent this season. The little I have seen of Farrell has not been very good at all.

I feel that Cips will never live down his past reputation which is sad and that he will go to France but will he have the motivation and also Diamond to kick his .....?!!

 

[Patchey]

The thing about that article re Cips that confused me was that is suggested Lancaster took the meeting last week as an opportunity to tell him what he needed to do to be selected. Two game days before the EPS is announced and three before the squad goes into camp...

If that is true is seems mad to have waited so late.

 

[goodNumber10]

Just watched the 1st half of the 2nd Test against NZ from the summer off the back of @Peat 's comments about Burrell – not done much wrong to be honest – got stepped twice by Ben Smith but then if you drift at such a shallow angle as England do you're outside backs will get stepped and it drives him back into 36 which is kind of the point of that drift. 36 gets walked through a couple of times – just falls off the tackle once he hits the ankles – and Farrell falls off the defence as the injury he has starts to take its toll, but overall not awful – but could be better.

Aaaaanyway...... had intended to focus on Burrell but ended up just watching, and that first 40 minutes is some game of Rugby, regardless of the final outcome I reckon it might just be the best 40 minutes of attacking Rugby England have played under this coaching team (big call).

The main thing is the attacking width of our game is just on a different level to anything else I've seen under this set up. Farrell and 36's passing is frankly superb and the pair of them rip NZ open a couple of times 36 makes a couple of nice breaks and Farrells break on his own try line is especially sweet. Yarde is running nice attacking lines. But the main difference is how especially good 36's passing is - big crisp zipping 10 metre passes to the wide channels, no floating just 'bang!' out in front bringing the man onto the ball at pace and really stretching the NZ defence. Wood is sitting wide a lot and England are playing a 3 pod system with Forwards setting up with the back units and it works well.

Farrells tactical kicking is better, his decision making seems a lot surer – and even off the cuff he takes good decisions, he plays flatter and doesn't try to do too much, just interests his man and then lets 36 make the decisions.

It's actually quite a shock watching it now, with a bit of distance between it and comparing it to the AI's where we look so drastically different, the main thing is our pack though is just going forward the whole game, allowing Farrell and 36 to play flat. Launchbury, Parling Webber and Tom Wood are absolutely immense. You really don't realise how good they are until you compare it to this past AI's. They are everywhere, Launchbury is a massive loss, and it's surprising how much of an impact Parling has when you consider how good Lawes and Attwood have been.

****Edit:
Planet Rugby's predicted starting 15 for the Wales game:

http://planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16016_9644260,00.html

England's expected XV to face Wales: 15 Mike Brown, 14 Anthony Watson, 13 Luther Burrell, 12 Brad Barritt, 11 Jonny May, 10 George Ford, 9 Ben Youngs, 8 Billy Vunipola, 7 Chris Robshaw, 6 Tom Wood, 5 Courtney Lawes, 4 Dave Attwood, 3 David Wilson, 2 Dylan Hartley, 1 Joe Marler.