[2015 RWC] Pool C: New Zealand vs. Argentina (20/09/2015)

[Kiwi_]

I'm probably Sonnys biggest critic on here, he has his positives and negatives. He's the 4th best centre in the country, so there for he's there, there isn't another centre in NZ that would currently keep him out and justify it. I highly doubt we will see much of Sonny come the knock out games and he can write a book and complain to his mates all he wants about it after the RWC, Shag and Ted know his limitations more than anyone.

You can make half a$$ attempts to say Crotty or Ngatai should have gone, but realistically they are not better currently. I feel Aaron Cruden has played a huge part in making Sonny look some what decent during his time at the Chiefs and games with the ABs. With out him he's looked pretty ordinary.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

I actually rewatched some of the game back in 2001 when they nearly beat us, very average All Black side. Ben Blair was playing.. That small kid from Hokitika, not that he was awful, just not test match quality. Richie McCaw had an outstanding game, the commentators even said he looked like a future leader, that was his first year as an All Black, straight out off Otago Boys High School.

he'd actually been out of OBHS for about 3 years

 

[ABs2015]

I'd have Vito ahead of Kaino. Vito will be a crucial player for us this RWC.

Listening to radio sport and consensus is Kaino is the 1st choice 6. The debate appears to be the make up of the bench. Will Romano get one spot and then the other between the remaining loosies? OR will They have Vito on the bench with Cane/Messam at the expense of specialist locking cover. Consensus seems to be in the minor games the choice is largely irrelevant but against the big boys, Argentina included, they won't risk not having specialist locking cover.

That being the case one would imagine we will see Romano and Cane on the bench.

 

[Mcfadden]

I think I would use Kaino for blindside against the bigger teams (in terms of our pool, 'bigger' is defined by Argentina and Tonga) and the knockout games. Vito has returned to form this year but let's keep things in perspective. He had a belter at Eden Park, a bounce-back test against the Wallabies (who didn't have their top team) in our own fortress where almost everyone did well. Things are going to get bloody tight in those knockout games. Maybe not all of them, but most of the time that's how finals are - and Kaino is well suited to contributing to powerful defense.

You'd probably need to do the maths and tally up the minutes certain players have played this year so you don't burn people out. But my way of thinking was that Vito could team up with Romano or whoever against the minnows at lock. Retallick and Whitelock should be used sparingly because imo from Tonga onward they'll need to be in the starting 15 every match.

In terms of the bench, I think Romano would have to be there. But again, I think we'll need him against the minnows a few days later so I would probably avoid subbing him on to the field so he doesn't get too buggered.

 

[LiRFCMatt]

What do people think of the likelihood of an Argentina making the semis?

Quarters would be against Ireland/France... for a side that beat South Africa it isn't the biggest step up in the world, especially as the Argies beat the French the last time they played, in Paris, and although the last time they beat Ireland was 2007, it was during the World Cup.

 

[Pampas]

What do people think of the likelihood of an Argentina making the semis?

Quarters would be against Ireland/France... for a side that beat South Africa it isn't the biggest step up in the world, especially as the Argies beat the French the last time they played, in Paris, and although the last time they beat Ireland was 2007, it was during the World Cup.

Not likely, but i believe it is possible, and maybe even beating Australia/England in semis wouldnt be that crazy. We have beaten both, including a victory in Twickenham.
The facts you mentioned are true, however every game is a new story and both Ire and Fra have the edge against us.
Personally, I d prefer to face France, considering the pshycilogical aspect (or I may say the phsycological advantage we have over them), since we know them very well, we beat them many times, and we play the type of rugby that bothers the french.
But the thing with the Pumas is that one day they are capable of putting an amazing performance and beat the best, and the next day they look like a tier 3 team. And you never know what Puma side you are going to face.

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Probable Argentina Line Up:

15. Tuculet
14. Juan Imhoff
13. Marcelo Bosch
12. Juan Martín Hernández
11. Santiago Cordero
10. Nicolás Sánchez
9. Tomás Cubelli
8. Leonardo Senatore
7. Pablo Matera
6. Corcho Fernández Lobbe
5. Guido Petti
4. Tomás Lavanini
3. Nahuel Tetaz Chaparro
2. Agustín Creevy
1. Marcos Ayerza

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Its sad to see that missing players like Albacete, Carizza, Figallo and Camacho would be a great improvement over current players, specially the first two when they are out because of problems with the coach and his staff.

 

[Mcfadden]

I don't think Argentina have as strong of a side as in 2007 but honestly, anything can happen. Despite a scrappy performance against the ABs (their first international match together this year) they aren't easy beats. They did beat the Springboks. Keep an eye on Imhoff. Pretty sure he bagged about 3 tries in the RC. Against Ireland or France anything can happen. Ireland might be a bit shakey and have to be very strong psychologically. France...well, we never know what we'll get. I don't think they'd get past Aus or England though. Very happy to be proved wrong though!

 

[ABs2015]

A win over OZ in 2014 and a win over SA in 2015 and every now and then they push the ABs pretty hard - for sure they can make the semis. They will need to play well on the day and have things go their way, but there is no reason they can't beat either France or Ireland to make the semis I think. They should have no troubles getting out of pool play either although the game against Tonga will be a good one.

 

[rugby_mad]

agree that the Pumas is improving, anything can happen.. potential semi-finalist meeting the Boks!

 

[Dizzy]

We're gonna sweep the Argies.. 13+

 

[Adakins]

Im looking forward to this game, as Im not to sure which Puma team is gonna show up. I hope it turns into a good game. But AB's to win.

 

[Icemn]

Wayne Barnes...senraB enyaW

not fcking way the AB are winning this one...

 

[The Jones Boy]

I'm taking my wife to this match, there's no way we are losing this one or I will be hearing about it for the rest of my sorry life...

 

[Pampas]

All Blacks by 15

 

[ABs2015]

Team Named - Full strength as was suggested by Hansen.

All Blacks: Ben Smith, Nehe Milner-Skudder, Conrad Smith, Ma'a Nonu, Julian Savea, Dan Carter, Aaron Smith, Kieran Read, Richie McCaw (c) , Jerome Kaino, Brodie Retallick, Sam Whitelock, Owen Franks, Dane Coles, Tony Woodcock. Reserves: Keven Mealamu, Wyatt Crockett, Charlie Faumuina, Victor Vito, Sam Cane, TJ Perenara, Beauden Barrett, Sonny Bill Williams.

Interesting talking points for me are the preference to go without specialist locking cover on the bench (hence Cane and Vito on the bench), Kaino to start, Faumuina fit and on the bench, & SBW as midfield cover

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Argentina named as well:
Argentina: 15 Joaquin Tuculet, 14 Santiago Cordero, 13 Marcelo Bosch, 12 Juan Martin Hernandez, 11 Juan Imhoff, 10 Nicolas Sanchez, 9 Tomas Cubelli, 8 Leonardo Senatore, 7 Juan Martin Fernandez Lobbe, 6 Pablo Matera, 5 Tomas Lavanini, 4 Guido Petti, 3 Nahuel Tetaz Chaparro, 2 Agustin Creevy (c), 1 Marcos Ayerza
Replacements: 16 Julian Montoya, 17 Lucas Noguera, 18 Ramiro Herrera, 19 Mariano Galarza, 20 Juan Manuel Leguizamon, 21 Martin Landajo, 22 Jeronimo De La Fuente, 23 Lucas Gonzalez Amorosino

 

[austingtir]

SBW is always going to be involved in the big games. Anybody that think otherwise is just kidding themselves. He can basically cover 12-13 and wing if we are in a spot. Theres a reason Hansen's played him in 12 and 13 recently.


From the England match this match this morning the breaks in play for video analysis are falling into teams like SA, Eng and Argentinas hands imo just as I predicted 6months ago.


Thats an amazing bench and when you think of the other players that arent involved we are in a very good position from that standpoint. No other team in the world has even close to this depth. I do think Hansen's going to have to make some big decisions though if guys like Woodcock, Carter, Beauden, Faumuina and Franks dont step their game up to the required level.

 

[Mcfadden]

That's basically the team I predicted, apart from Romano being excluded. I have a feeling Romano will feature prominently in the minnow matches (we do only have 3 locks after all, and the other two will need to be managed carefully).

I don't think Woodcock has done too much wrong in terms of errors, but I do think he'll need to be on target against Argentina. Almost like a last chance kinda thing. Crockett probably has more speed around the field, with the only concern being around Crockett's tendency to have a bad day at the office in the scrums (thereby giving away penalties.) Barrett and Faumuina have been injured so they need some more game time against the minnows. Can't really seeing anyone other than Carter being our man to start the major tests.

I would like to see our tackling game strong and our speed to the breakdown being a lot better than it has been in the RC. I don't think we'll lose, but we'll need to improve in those areas to avoid a messy match.

 

[ABs2015]

SBW is always going to be involved in the big games. Anybody that think otherwise is just kidding themselves. He can basically cover 12-13 and wing if we are in a spot. Theres a reason Hansen's played him in 12 and 13 recently.

Really? I'm not so sure about that. Time will tell I guess but I certainly don't think Fekitoa offers anything less in terms of bench cover. The debate will be who is better. Fekitoa has played in all the big matches off the bench this year so he is clearly up there in terms of their thinking. Personally I like them both and think both can and will do the job well. I just like the slightly more dynamic play of Fekitoa off the bench vs SBWs D and offload. Either way pretty outstanding backs cover.

 

[Kiwi_]

SBW is always going to be involved in the big games. Anybody that think otherwise is just kidding themselves. He can basically cover 12-13 and wing if we are in a spot. Theres a reason Hansen's played him in 12 and 13 recently.


From the England match this match this morning the breaks in play for video analysis are falling into teams like SA, Eng and Argentinas hands imo just as I predicted 6months ago.


Thats an amazing bench and when you think of the other players that arent involved we are in a very good position from that standpoint. No other team in the world has even close to this depth. I do think Hansen's going to have to make some big decisions though if guys like Woodcock, Carter, Beauden, Faumuina and Franks dont step their game up to the required level.

No he's not.

 

[austingtir]

Really? I'm not so sure about that. Time will tell I guess but I certainly don't think Fekitoa offers anything less in terms of bench cover. The debate will be who is better. Fekitoa has played in all the big matches off the bench this year so he is clearly up there in terms of their thinking. Personally I like them both and think both can and will do the job well. I just like the slightly more dynamic play of Fekitoa off the bench vs SBWs D and offload. Either way pretty outstanding backs cover.

Fekitoa is better from broken play. SBW is better defensively and with a structured game imo. They will run who they think is the best option. But I really cant see Fekitoa featuring much in the big matches if Nonu and Conrad are fit.

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No he's not.

Well wheres Fekitoa then? Barring a couple of players that can swap in and out of basically the reserves with no real difference (id include Fekitoa and Messam in that) this is clearly what Hansen thinks is the top selection right now. I believe Vito's match against Aust has moved him up the pecking order for now and really alot of players there are selected on past glories and hoping they will find real form (id put Carter, Kaino, Franks, Woodcock, Savea, Faumuina and Mealamu all in that basket which is a slight worry).