[2015 RWC] Final: New Zealand vs. Australia (31/10/2015)

[RugbyTackle91]

A great many on this website always put the boot in to the Wallabies and give them no chance. Basically every rugby championship half this forum reckon they will come last and they will always lose to Argentina (typically they tend to be either kiwi's or english fans with grudges). I always believed the would be a strong favourite to get out of their group, Wales were always the underdogs given form and history. Wales tbh are not a mentally strong team and they always seem to come unstuck against the southern heavyweights. England getting knocked out early was a surprise, Aussie advancing was pretty obvious.


When it comes to World Cups and given NZ is always a favourite and we have only won at home and are 2/7 tournaments we cop a lot of flak. We are basically written off in knockout games, but maybe things are changing. This current crop has only lost 3 games in the last 4 seasons. We appear to be peaking at the right time and we have a strong 23 man team not just strong starters. We have the most experienced team of all time and many of our players have actually won a world cup. These things make a huge difference in big matches, you need those big time players.

If you look deeper at aussies progression getting past a poor England and nearly losing to Scotland doesn't seem like the stars are aligning it looks like they will need to be 1000% better than they have been to beat us,

I agree with a lot of what you said actually and I think New Zealand would be expected to win by most of us really. I thought just crossed my mind as to whether New Zealand actually have enough decent opposition in the world at the moment. Not to take anything away from the hugely impressive run of form, but i recall in 2003 for example Australia, all blacks and England all had fearsome teams, it is a shame really that 1 or 2 NH teams haven't got to a level near New Zealand after all this time.

 

[Yobbo]

it is a shame really that 1 or 2 NH teams haven't got to a level near New Zealand after all this time.

It is hard to see them doing this any time soon so long as their first instinct is to try not to lose rather than trying to win.

 

[ABs2011]

If you do lose it could be an epic one. You didn't look amazing against SA, and there's still the matter of a great many of your top guys being off form. Read and Conrad Smith shouldn't really be in the team so Hansen will take a lot of ****. No idea why these guys haven't been dropped yet.

Boy oh boy. Does this post truly reflect your rugby knowledge? For ur sake I hope not.

I'll give u a hint re Conrad Smith - 96% Tackle success. Is there a centre in the world that has topped that this year?

 

[gamine]

Well Kerr-Barlow has well and truly over-taken TJ, I guess it was because TJ is a bit like Aaron Smith and Kerr-Barlow can offer that defensive, more physical side at halfback. TJ is more of a starter as well. But other than that it's business as usual with that 23. Starting to get the nerves a bit, excited..

So, does anyone think the Aussies will have something up their sleeve for the Haka? I'm guessing some face pulling and sledging and a few "COME ON"'s ^.^

I have thought for ages that when, (if?!) England play the ABs they should do some morris dancing, with the bells and hankies, and a bloke bopping people on the head with a pig's bladder!

Seriously though, why don't Australia do an aboriginal war dance?

 

[OverGore]

I

Seriously though, why don't Australia do an aboriginal war dance?

cos they apologiezd for aborigenes extermination not even 10 years ago?

 

[Kiwi_]

I have thought for ages that when, (if?!) England play the ABs they should do some morris dancing, with the bells and hankies, and a bloke bopping people on the head with a pig's bladder!

Seriously though, why don't Australia do an aboriginal war dance?

Because they don't care about "Abo's", in Australia they're the butt of a lot of jokes, racially discriminated for years and cast out into the outback and essentially ignored. Nothing about their culture is respected or has been respected by Australians. They're at a huge minority now as well, there's little over 200,000 of them because of the genocide that occurred and very little integration was attempted throughout history.

 

[ENZED-88]

Boy oh boy. Does this post truly reflect your rugby knowledge? For ur sake I hope not.

I'll give u a hint re Conrad Smith - 96% Tackle success. Is there a centre in the world that has topped that this year?

Yea he's proved it once again he had a very limited knowledge of the game. Keep in mind this is the same guy who tipped Ireland to make the semis and the ABs to get knocked out in the quaters.

 

[KeyboardWorrier]

NZ gave away a few too many penalties in the SA game. But other than that they were outstanding. The rain I think made it look closer than it was.

 

[PacDuran]

Because they don't care about "Abo's", in Australia they're the butt of a lot of jokes, racially discriminated for years and cast out into the outback and essentially ignored. Nothing about their culture is respected or has been respected by Australians. They're at a huge minority now as well, there's little over 200,000 of them because of the genocide that occurred and very little integration was attempted throughout history.

Yeah they'll go the way of the American Indian soon enough. Disgraceful treatment by the Ozzie authorities but they do themselves no favours in their behaviour. I suppose you could make an excuse for it by saying it's the post traumatic stress of conquest filtered down through generations.

 

[Jaguares]

Because they don't care about "Abo's", in Australia they're the butt of a lot of jokes, racially discriminated for years and cast out into the outback and essentially ignored. Nothing about their culture is respected or has been respected by Australians. They're at a huge minority now as well, there's little over 200,000 of them because of the genocide that occurred and very little integration was attempted throughout history.

Are u a Maori?

 

[PacDuran]

NZ gave away a few too many penalties in the SA game. But other than that they were outstanding. The rain I think made it look closer than it was.

Or perhaps SA did by scoring nearly as many points as the ABs. Don't forget that Victor Matfield came on and had a disastrous game, giving away two crucial penalties, one of which reversed an easy shot at goal that would have drawn the saffers level.

You constantly look at things through silver fern tinted glasses boss lol Don't try to lie.

 

[Crazy Horse]

Yeah they'll go the way of the American Indian soon enough.

Soon enough? They are already there.

 

[PacDuran]

Soon enough? They are already there.

In terms of numbers relative to the population of the country they used to own they are not at that point yet.

 

[Crazy Horse]

3 million full blooded Native Americans out of 300 million, so 1 in 100. 400k(?) Aborigines out of 25 million, so about 2 out of 100? Approxinately same ratio.

As far as status is concerned,

1. Disenfranchised? Check.
2. Culture ignored and/or trivialized? Check.
3. Lands stolen? Check.
4. Rampant social neglect with resultant ills like alcoholism? Check.
5. Persistent inability by majority population to even honestly recognize, leave alone correct, historical injustices? Check.

I'd say the parallels between the plight of Native Americans and the Aborigines are quite striking.

But this is a topic for another forum.

 

[smartcooky]

Read and Conrad Smith shouldn't really be in the team so Hansen will take a lot of ****. No idea why these guys haven't been dropped yet.

OK, I'll give you Kieran Read. His form has not been crash hot, but he's is on the improve, and I think he is set for a really big game. When someone coined the phrase, "form is temporary but class is permanent", I think they had Kieran Read in mind. The guy is pure class; such an excellent player that even when he is not at his best, he is still better than most 8s in international rugby. I cannot think of a specialist No. 8 from anywhere in the world that I'd rather have in my team.

However, I won't give you Conrad Smith. His form as been outstanding. In the five matches Conrad has played so far (he didn't play in the QF against France)

Metres Run 127 (25 per match)
Clean Breaks & defenders beaten 8
Offloads 4
Turnovers 4
Tackles made/missed 23/1 (96%)

This is not form that would get him dropped from an All Black team.

 

[ENZED-88]

Yeah they'll go the way of the American Indian soon enough..

They're well past that point.

 

[Kiwi_]

One thing about Hansen is, he's loyal and never kills a players confidence.. which is one of the most important things about being a coach. Read is an integral part of this side, he's still winning turnovers and being physical, but he's playing poorly in every other department, my major concern is not his knock-ons or penalty count, but his missed tackles, which is a real worry against this Aussie outfit.. We can only hope he comes right in the final.

 

[gamine]

3 million full blooded Native Americans out of 300 million, so 1 in 100. 400k(?) Aborigines out of 25 million, so about 2 out of 100? Approxinately same ratio.

As far as status is concerned,

1. Disenfranchised? Check.
2. Culture ignored and/or trivialized? Check.
3. Lands stolen? Check.
4. Rampant social neglect with resultant ills like alcoholism? Check.
5. Persistent inability by majority population to even honestly recognize, leave alone correct, historical injustices? Check.

I'd say the parallels between the plight of Native Americans and the Aborigines are quite striking.

But this is a topic for another forum.

Interesting and thoughtful responses, but I really asked because of the NZ haka, and the question raised about what a team should do to counter it. I don't think the haka is decisive in determining who wins, but, in my opinion, it does 'summon up the blood'!

 

[Kiwi_]

Interesting and thoughtful responses, but I really asked because of the NZ haka, and the question raised about what a team should do to counter it. I don't think the haka is decisive in determining who wins, but, in my opinion, it does 'summon up the blood'!

The Haka should only be performed against sides that have beaten the All Blacks in the last 20 years.

It should be an honour to face the Haka, doing the Haka against minnows feels pointless.

 

[Crazy Horse]

What do you think is the problem with Read? Is it just a loss of form that happens to the best of players, or it something more insidious, like lingering effects from concussions or something like that?