[2014 TRC] South Africa v New Zealand in Johannesburg (04/10/2014)

[Darwin]

What a great game of rugby. It perhaps wasn't quite up to the level of last years test at Ellis Park (but few tests are!), but was certainly the best match of this years Rugby Championship IMO. Despite being a bit lenient on the the tacklers at the breakdown (as alluded to by the posters above) I felt Wayne Barnes refereed quite well and deserves credit for the open match we saw too (I feel all dirty saying that...). After the last close AB's test (vs South Africa in Wellington) I felt I wasn't yet ready to watch the AB's lose, so was actually surprised how little pain this loss caused me!

While it is always fashionable to attribute an AB's loss down to a poor performance I don't think was the case at all. It certainly wasn't an outstanding AB's performance - I was getting immensely frustrated with some basic errors we kept making at times - but I felt that this performance would have beaten most teams in world rugby reasonably comfortably. The problem was the Boks just played better than us. How inconsiderate of them!

I was really impressed with the way the Boks played what was in front of them. If they saw they had space they were happy to attack no matter where on the field they were. There is certainly more risk doing this (rather than slavishly sticking to a conservative game plan), but I think it is obvious there are a lot of rewards for this style too.

Handre Pollard was quite simply outstanding for Boks. The difference between him and Morne Steyn is night and day. He attacks the line with ball in hand, looks to be a reliable defender, and has a good enough tactical kicking game. If South Africa stick with him they are going to be a real force over these next few years. Vermeulen again impressed up front, and I thought Habana's work at the breakdown was incredible - he must have forced 3-4 turnovers, which is exceptional for a wing!


Onto the AB's:

- I thought Moody was very good in the 1st half, and was somewhat surprised he was subbed off at half-time (thought Franks too did a solid job once he came on). Moody had a big work-rate - his only major blemish was being beaten on the outside in Pollard's try. To be fair though he probably saw a South African player with a '10' on his back so naturally assumed he wasn't going to run the ball

- Mealamu was ok, but the lineout didn't function that well with him there. We did win most (/all?) of our throws with him on, but a lot of our wins were very scrappy ball (with the jumpers only able to get a fingertip or too on the ball) which meant we din't have a great platform for attack. Coles improved this immensely in the 2nd half, and was his dynamic self around he field too.

- Thrush and Whitelock I felt were solid, but we definitely missed Retallick's physicality at the breakdown. Luatua made an excellent impact when he came on with both his ball running and lineout work.

- The loose-forward trio as a whole I felt were solid rather than spectacular. They didn't feature that much with ball in hand, but made their tackles, and did some good work at the breakdown (the one handed breakdown turnover by Read was a particular highlight for me). Messam was actually very good when came on - it was great to see him running straight and hard - but he did ruin his good work somewhat with his reckless tackle (the South African player was falling, but there is no doubt it was reckless play and deserved to be penalised).

- A Smith again showed he is far and away our best 9. His lack of physicality can still be an issue at times though. At one stage he was the only NZ support player at the breakdown and simply stood and watched as a South African player reached over and 'jackled' the ball. Obviously it isn't his style to clean out players at the breakdown (and he may not have been effective anyway given his size), but at times that that would have been great to have a Kerr-Barlow or a Perenara who would crash into the breakdown with blatant disregard to their own safety....

- I thought overall Barrett played quite well. He seems to be playing within himself somewhat, but I'm sure we will see a bit more of his trademark running game the more he gets comfortable in the 10 jersey (and it is much easier to display this off the bench once the game has opened up too).

- Fekitoa was ok at 12, but I thought he made a few defensive errors at time. Conrad Smith had his best game with ball in hand for some time.

- Savea. Wow. He just keeps getting better. He did make a few handling errors, but he was a BEAST with ball in hand. Cornal Hendricks will be having nightmares. Ben Smith was very quiet but the ball seldom goes to the AB's right wing these days. Dagg was Dagg. That's not a compliment. He missed far more tackles than he made, and offered very little in attack. Imagine what Ben Smith would do with 29 touches of the ball (as Dagg had) rather than 7?

I think this is deliberate. I think that's a thought going on in Hansen's head that, if he has the fittest team in the world, the best way to capitalize on that is to force the pace of the game as high as possible. Tire the other team out and sooner or later, gaps will appear, mistakes will happen. Patient attacks give other sides a chance to get their breath back. Attack like mad. Either you break through and score, or you tire them out some more and you'll get the ball back soon enough.

It's worked very well up until now. I think people are cottoning on though and will be catching up soon.

I do agree that the 'all or nothing' attacking style is a big part of the AB's game-plan, and I have no problem with them using it from quick ball / turnover ball. The problem I felt in the 1st half was they were trying far too much from static ball. I think there needed to be a bit more of a balance in their attack, as there were times when a slightly more patient build-up would have eventually given them the quicker ball (and space) they required to attack more effectively.

 

[smartcooky]

Just watched the replay of that last play - blatantly should have been a penalty against Burger. Goes in from the side and stops Luatua cleaning out which allowed the turnover penalty to happen... Two tough calls to swallow in the last 2 minutes.

Pity it has taken him seven years grow the balls to award a match-winning penalty!

.....It certainly wasn't an outstanding AB's performance - I was getting immensely frustrated with some basic errors we kept making at times...

Careful Darwin. No matter how much good stuff you say about the way the Boks played (and make no mistake, they did play very, very well today), dropping in this sort of line is bound to draw accusations of "sour grapes"

 

[tenpm]

Eh, I thought Barnes actually had a pretty good performance. He was fair and consistent and let the game flow for the most part, though I'm not a fan of the way he reffed breakdown turnovers. A lot of his 'not releasing the ball' calls should have gone the other way for the tackler being off feet or not releasing the ball carrier, and favouring the defensive side just slows the game down.

The All Blacks execution was poor tonight. They looked a little like a team trying to copy the All Blacks' style - many of their passes on attack were forced, and went over the intended receiver's head or into Springbok hands. Offloads are great, but sometimes you should just hold the ball.

I'm not too disappointed with the loss - it was inevitable that the All Blacks were going to lose at some point. They just need to learn from it.

 

[austingtir]

A Smith standing and pointing at the ball getting jackled really ****** me off as you guys know im not his biggest fan other than that he played very well I loved the pass to savea to set up his try from in our 22 it was pretty magic.
I just hate that Hansen hasnt got onto him about this standing and pointing carrying on like someone is magically going to fill a defensive spot or stop a guy jackling the ball in a split second. In the time he used to point his arm and wave it around he could of atleast make an attempt on some occasions to actually do something... It really is a bit of a problem in his game imo he does it far far to often.

And Dagg defensively is a total joke easily the worst defensive fullback I can remember..... I mean you'd have to go back 20+ years to find someone worse than this guy. SMITH has to start and fullback at the WC end of.

 

[Kapa O Pango]

All Blacks lost.

The fabric of space and time is going to explode.

 

[Guilty]

Congratulations to South Africa - a well deserved win and one I was very happy to watch.

 

[Bazzy]

F*&%ing power cut made me miss the game. Need to find a replay now.

Congrats 'Boks.

 

[kovana]

NZ were robbed. That Last replay of the messam tackle had no reason to be played on the big screen.

The ref and TJs missed it, no need for outside influences to decide the match. Pathetic call.

 

[Darwin]

NZ were robbed. That Last replay of the messam tackle had no reason to be played on the big screen.

The ref and TJs missed it, no need for outside influences to decide the match. Pathetic call.

Rubbish. The Messam tackle was reckless and deserved to be penalized (whether the officials saw it or not). While I think Barnes penalized the wrong team at the end, I think it would be naive to suggest the referee cost he AB's the game. He didn't recklessly charge Burger. He wasn't the one missing tackles on Pollard. He wasn't responsible for the AB's not supporting their ball carriers correctly. He didn't force the AB's into making basic errors when hard on attack. He didn't fire the South African's up and make them play better rugby than the AB's (I hope he didn't anyway!).

The fact is South Africa played better than us and deserved to win. The AB's made an excellent come back in the 2nd half, but if we had won that match I don't think the best side on the day would have won....

 

[hjklhjkl]

F*&%ing power cut made me miss the game. Need to find a replay now.

Congrats 'Boks.

Check your PM, i sent you a link to the game.

 

[Bean]

Rubbish. The Messam tackle was reckless and deserved to be penalized (whether the officials saw it or not). While I think Barnes penalized the wrong team at the end, I think it would be naive to suggest the referee cost he AB's the game. He didn't recklessly charge Burger. He wasn't the one missing tackles on Pollard. He wasn't responsible for the AB's not supporting their ball carriers correctly. He didn't force the AB's into making basic errors when hard on attack. He didn't fire the South African's up and make them play better rugby than the AB's (I hope he didn't anyway!).

The fact is South Africa played better than us and deserved to win. The AB's made an excellent come back in the 2nd half, but if we had won that match I don't think the best side on the day would have won....

SA didn't play better, the game panned out how it always pans out. SA win the first round, NZ reel them in in the 2nd. Except this time, the ref stuffed it. If that tackle was worth penalising, why weren't all of the previous similar tackles in the game looked at? The ref just wanted a big finish. Really poor finish to an otherwise really well ref'd game.

 

[Darwin]

SA didn't play better, the game panned out how it always pans out. SA win the first round, NZ reel them in in the 2nd. Except this time, the ref stuffed it. If that tackle was worth penalising, why weren't all of the previous similar tackles in the game looked at? The ref just wanted a big finish. Really poor finish to an otherwise really well ref'd game.

I disagree, but you are entitled to your opinion. Here are a couple of quote from Steve Hansen:

"But we've got no excuses. We've been beaten by a team who played better than us by a little bit today."
"It [result] could have gone either way but my heart tells me the Boks probably deserved it today. We didn't start the game well enough and they put us under a lot of pressure. Well done to the Boks. They were well overdue for a win and they got one."

That suggests to me that Hansen thought they were beaten by the better team too....

 

[Chikwa]

I disagree, but you are entitled to your opinion. Here are a couple of quote from Steve Hansen:

"But we've got no excuses. We've been beaten by a team who played better than us by a little bit today."
"It [result] could have gone either way but my heart tells me the Boks probably deserved it today. We didn't start the game well enough and they put us under a lot of pressure. Well done to the Boks. They were well overdue for a win and they got one."

That suggests to me that Hansen thought they were beaten by the better team too....

Kiwi's tend to be magnanimous. Though I do agree with Hansen. The game could have gone either way. If it was a game of significance I believe the all blacks would have won.( Richie would have kicked for the posts when the opportunities presented themselves)

 

[cardassian]

SA didn't play better, the game panned out how it always pans out. SA win the first round, NZ reel them in in the 2nd. Except this time, the ref stuffed it. If that tackle was worth penalising, why weren't all of the previous similar tackles in the game looked at? The ref just wanted a big finish. Really poor finish to an otherwise really well ref'd game.

You mean the tackle that was both high (accidentally) and had no arms in it? Now I'm not saying other tackles weren't missed, I just think it was a clear penalty.

 

[Peat]

I do agree that the 'all or nothing' attacking style is a big part of the AB's game-plan, and I have no problem with them using it from quick ball / turnover ball. The problem I felt in the 1st half was they were trying far too much from static ball. I think there needed to be a bit more of a balance in their attack, as there were times when a slightly more patient build-up would have eventually given them the quicker ball (and space) they required to attack more effectively.

I didn't see the first half but I'd love to know what Hansen made of it - whether he thought it was worth the gamble, or thought they were making bad decisions. The more you tell people to gamble though, the more they'll do it when it's not on, that's part and parcel. If you think you're better than the other team when the game breaks up completely, null sweat - but big issue if you're not.

I'll have to find some time to watch the whole thing...

 

[Chikwa]

Time for Hansen to revisit the drawing board . Boks fed off the energy and good will of the crowd. They scraped home with the narrowest of wins.Questions for Hansen ? Why was Barrett subdued ? Will fekitoa improve sufficiently to replace Nonu? Is DC still out best no 10? Who is the best loose head ? Who is the best no 6 ? What happened to our composure ? Does our scrum coach need a fresh face to assist him ? Should we play Charles piatau at wing and Ben smith at fullback should sonny bill start at no 12? As graham Henry said the all blacks need to lose. Well it has happened.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Yes it is.

The reality is that the TMO will inform about foul play once he has seen and had time to report it, however, there is no limit on the number of tackles/rucks that take place between the foul play and the referee acting on it.

As for the match itself, while I can't say I'm ever happy when the All Blacks lose, this one doesn't bother me all that much.

South Africa had everything stacked in their favour; second week at home while the ABs had to travel from Argentina, home advantage, Ellis Park and the altitude, and a referee who didn't seem to care that players (from both sides mind) were supporting themselves with their hands on the ground, and in the end, the only difference between the two teams was... one conversion!

Bring on 2015!

Regarding the hometown big screens around the ground, the VS Video switcher focusses on anything that might be deemed as dodgy to rile the local fans, they in turn make a racket and the TMO can't miss it.
Happens at all the major grounds around the world.
I'm all for stamping out foul play but surely they can do it quicker than the two crucial minutes gobbled up by that drawn out nonsense. It made an exciting game into a dull anti climax.

This was the game for the AB's to lose. Blooding new players under huge pressure, facing the 2nd best team in the world away from home in their favourite stadium, Retallick would have been in his element.
Wayne barnes is not a factor for me. The truth is rugby referees get swayed by the home crowds and the VS at every major stadium and the best trams have to deal with it.
The AB's get more than their fair share of 50-50 calls in NZ, every home team does, thats the nature of the game these days and the best teams deal with it.
Messam didn't do anything particularly wrong, it was just a falling momentum of the ball carrier issue, but in slow motion over and over again, its a game breaker.

The All Blacks should never have been in that position anyway, one conversion and the Boks would have been forced to go for the try line, and who knows they might have got there too.
Great to have the consecutive game monkey off our back and we can go on to face the Autumn tests soon with the knowledge that it all starts again toward the RWC next year.
Hope my tickets come through the ballot.

One thing that is starting to irritate me is the number of defensive line players on every team who are waving their arms at the referee to try to get him to grant them a turnover, a knock on , an infringement or a penalty.
That gamesmanship has increased over the last few years and the worst offenders need to spend time in the bin.

I called this early in the thread, Boks by 3.

 

[smartcooky]

Regarding the hometown big screens around the ground, the VS Video switcher focusses on anything that might be deemed as dodgy to rile the local fans, they in turn make a racket and the TMO can't miss it.
Happens at all the major grounds around the world.
I'm all for stamping out foul play but surely they can do it quicker than the two crucial minutes gobbled up by that drawn out nonsense. It made an exciting game into a dull anti climax..

The TMO booth is soundproof. He cannot hear the crowd noise or the commentary, and he has no windows so he cannot see the game "in the flesh". He can only communicate with the referee, the assistant referees, and the Video Tape Operator (VTO - A legacy term as everything is done digitally now).

His video feed for following the game comes only from the half-way line cameras (so he isn't fed crowd shots either). When he is called up to make a decision then he requests the relevant footage from the VTO.

In short, the TMO cannot be influnced by the commentary or the baying crowd because he cannot hear or see them.

 

[Jbobo]

SA didn't play better, the game panned out how it always pans out. SA win the first round, NZ reel them in in the 2nd. Except this time, the ref stuffed it. If that tackle was worth penalising, why weren't all of the previous similar tackles in the game looked at? The ref just wanted a big finish. Really poor finish to an otherwise really well ref'd game.

The decision was spot on. Definitely a penalty, nothing more.

the final decision however, was wrong - Burger was in at the side.

Best decision would have been a free kick All Blacks, not penalty. Time to change the rule books

 

[Jer1cho]

I thought we did seriously well without Alberts and Louw. Vermeulen is a stalwart, and hasn't he now broken the record for most motm awards in a Championsip? We blew the All Blacks away in the first half (though i will admit i actually thought some passes looked pretty dodgy). Pollard is the real deal. As an 18 year old in school he won the JRWC, and now as a 20 year old is winning with the Boks against New Zealand. If he stays injury free, he is going to only get better. All Blacks were massive in the second half. McCaw was everywhere, and with him and Read, they rallied and were lethal. Fekitoa is seriously good. With SBW coming back, they will have Fekitoa, Savea, B Smith, SBW and Barret. That is serious skill. Great game of rugby though, and every game between us is seeming epic. Cant wait for the EOYT.