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2014 Super Rugby: Lions V Blues (Round 5)

All this conjecture around the law is fine, but the Blues shouldn't have put themselves in a position where they had to worry about to TMO getting the call wrong.

And until they get a game plan and the forwards step up, there is going to be more of this loser talk of worrying about a TMO decision against lowly teams like the Lions.
I'm sorry If I caused offence with that statement, but the reality is that; given the personnel the Blues have, they should not be losing to teams like the Lions.

I'm also very worried that Nonu and Kaino aren't going to make a lick of difference when they come back either.
I have the feeling we're going to see those two blokes catch the same disease the rest of this team has where medicority is acceptable.
 
All this conjecture around the law is fine, but the Blues shouldn't have put themselves in a position where they had to worry about to TMO getting the call wrong.

And until they get a game plan and the forwards step up, there is going to be more of this loser talk of worrying about a TMO decision against lowly teams like the Lions.
I'm sorry If I caused offence with that statement, but the reality is that; given the personnel the Blues have, they should not be losing to teams like the Lions.

I'm also very worried that Nonu and Kaino aren't going to make a lick of difference when they come back either.
I have the feeling we're going to see those two blokes catch the same disease the rest of this team has where medicority is acceptable.

I would think that Nonu, in particular, has received that message loud and clear, given that none of the other franchises wanted him ... I'm hoping that both he and Kaino can lift the Blues fortunes, but I'm not hopeful that it will occur straight away (might take a game or two)
 
Just watched highlights. No idea why Noakes started. Hickie was great and in no way deserved to be benched. My only thoughts it that Kirwan doesn't want to put too much pressure on him too quickly?

Also, does anyone else thing Hadleigh Parkes would have been a good bet? He looked pretty solid for the Hurricanes the other week and I remember him being good for Auckland in the ITM. Was there a reason the 'Canes got him and not the Blues.

Completely agree re Marshall being the main attacking threat.

He was with the Blues in that disaster of a season a couple of years ago. For some reason Pat Lam put him in at wing - this went as well as could be expected (i.e. he was goddamn awful). He went to the Kings after that, and we hardly saw him in action after his first game got the team in trouble for fielding too many foreigners. I did notice he did a good job as Auckland's captain, but I didn't rate him at all before ITM Cup so I'm not surprised Kirwan overlooked him.
 
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He was with the Blues in that disaster of a season a couple of years ago. For some reason Pat Lam put him in at wing - this went as well as could be expected (i.e. he was goddamn awful). Went to the Kings after that and we hardly saw him in action after his first appearance, which got the team in trouble for fielding too many foreigners. I did notice he did a good job as Auckland's captain, but I didn't rate him at all before ITM Cup so I'm not surprised Kirwan overlooked him.

That explains it. I really rated him in the ITM but this season was pretty much the first full ITM Cup I followed so I didn't know what had happened before.
 
Looks like I was right, then wrong, then finally right in the end.

 
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Good old Rugby.

Sucks also that it's two errors in two weeks that have affected the Blues ;)
 
Good old Rugby.

Sucks also that it's two errors in two weeks that have affected the Blues ;)

The Blues shouldn't have put themselves in a position where 5#!tty reffing was going to be the difference in the result
 
The Blues shouldn't have put themselves in a position where 5#!tty reffing was going to be the difference in the result

Yeah, we've established that, but the doesn't make it any less frustrating. When you're playing poorly the last thing you need is to have calls go against you too. They'd have another guaranteed point from the Bulls game if the referee had made the right call, and potentially more points from the Lions game. At the end of the season the difference between getting two points in South Africa and getting three or more can make a big difference.
 
Yeah, we've established that, but the doesn't make it any less frustrating. When you're playing poorly the last thing you need is to have calls go against you too. They'd have another guaranteed point from the Bulls game if the referee had made the right call, and potentially more points from the Lions game. At the end of the season the difference between getting two points in South Africa and getting three or more can make a big difference.

Mate, as I stated before, if they had played right from the kickoff against the Lions we wouldn't even be worrying about the ref, so those points woudl be in teh bag.
Against the Bulls, they didn't even deserve to be as close as they were on the scoreboard anyway, so a "point" there is kind of moot.

Sorry to go on about it, but I feel the Blues got what they deserved from their SA sojourn.

Bottom line is; whinging about a wrong TMO call smacks of acceptance of abject mediocrity.
It is something the Warriors would do.

Honestly; can you even imagine Fitzy, Zinny, Whetton (or any other Auckland great) whinging like that?
I can't
 
Mate, as I stated before, if they had played right from the kickoff against the Lions we wouldn't even be worrying about the ref, so those points woudl be in teh bag.
Against the Bulls, they didn't even deserve to be as close as they were on the scoreboard anyway, so a "point" there is kind of moot.

Sorry to go on about it, but I feel the Blues got what they deserved from their SA sojourn.

Bottom line is; whinging about a wrong TMO call smacks of acceptance of abject mediocrity.
It is something the Warriors would do.

Honestly; can you even imagine Fitzy, Zinny, Whetton (or any other Auckland great) whinging like that?
I can't

Absolutely ... the defense was weak, but the Blues did well to fight back to get themselves in a game winning position ... if they'd played to what they are capable of, the bad calls wouldn't have mattered ... the best they can hope for by raising these calls with the refs, is better calls/less mistakes next time
 

Honestly, Watson's comments are moronic.

I think it's disgusting he is even making them.
Rugby 101 - hold onto the ball.
It wasn't deliberatly knocked out of the player's hand, and even the player's reaction at the time shows that he lost it.

This is complete BS from Watson and the SARFU.
Trying to excuse what is poor refereeing standards.

Another couple of clangers like this from the SA refs, and I reckon SANZAR should go back to neutral refs.
 
Honestly, Watson's comments are moronic.

I think it's disgusting he is even making them.
Rugby 101 - hold onto the ball.
It wasn't deliberatly knocked out of the player's hand, and even the player's reaction at the time shows that he lost it.

This is complete BS from Watson and the SARFU.
Trying to excuse what is poor refereeing standards.

Another couple of clangers like this from the SA refs, and I reckon SANZAR should go back to neutral refs.

Just to update you all on this...

After SARU asked for clarification on this issue, the iRB have confirmed that SANZAR Referee manager was correct in his assessment that Stuart Berry and the TMO go this decision wrong.

[TEXTAREA]Clarification 1 2014

Ruling in Law by the Designated Members of the Rugby Committee
Ruling
1-2014

Union
SARU

Law Reference
12

Date
25 March 2014

Request
Law 12 â€" Knock-on

Law 12, definition states, “a knock-on occurs when a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward, or when a player hits the ball forward with hand or arm, or when the ball hits the hand or arm and goes forward, and the ball touches the ground or another player before the original player can catch it.†The law does not explicitly cover scenarios where the ball is knocked-out of the grasp of a ball carrier.

We refer to ruling 4 of 2011 and believe the answer could come from this ruling.

Concern is expressed that this type of play may affect the game going forward as the “tackle†will be down played and the slapping, knocking the ball out of the ball carrier’s grasp will prevail.

However, for the sake of clarity and consistency of ruling by referees worldwide, in the following scenarios has a knock-on occurred?


  1. A ball carrier from team red runs with the ball in the direction of team blue goal line, a defender/tackler from team blue attempts to tackle from behind and makes contact with his hand on the ball. This action caused the ball to be lost “forward†from the ball carrier. The last contact on the ball was that of the defender before it went forward. Is this a knock on by player red or a play on as the blue tackler knocked the ball back â€" similar to a rip, ruling 4 of 2011?
  2. Same scenario as above but the defender/tackler does not make contact with the ball but his action causes the ball carrier from team Blue to loose possession of the ball and it travels forward. Please confirm that this is knock-on.


Clarification in Law by the Designated Members of the Rugby Comtmitee
If a player in tackling an opponent makes contact with the ball and the ball goes forward from the ball carriers hands, that is a knock on.

If a player rips the ball or deliberately knocks the ball from an opponent's hands and the ball goes forward from the ball carrier's hands, that is not a knock on.

[/TEXTAREA]

In effect, they have told Andre Watson (SARU) that he is wrong. I'm not surprised really, because for once, what the iRB have said makes logical sense.

Ripping is an intentional action, dislodging the ball in the course of a tackle is not, even if the tackler makes contact with the ball. They have effectively ratified a 100+ years of tradition of the game, that the onus is on the ball carrier to maintain possession of the ball in the tackle, and that the only time he is excused that onus is if an opponent intentionally targets the ball.

End of, case closed.
 
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