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2014 Super Rugby: Chiefs v Crusaders (Round 10)

Wow huge kick coming up! Anescomb's been rubbish id still take Slade all year as 4th flyhalf for AB's.

Anscombe has always been rubbish at 10. I thought Slade played pretty well - he just needs to keep stringing games together, as the more he plays the better he looks. At the start of the season he was certainly behind Tom Taylor in terms of AB's selection, but he is probably moving ahead of him at the moment.
 
What I want to know is why do they not call the Crusaders lineouts not straight? couple were blatant not straight.

Every time the Chiefs play the Crusaders they are on the short end of the stick with the refs.

While I agree, there were at least as many Chiefs lineouts that weren't straight that the ref missed (he did pick up 2-3). I think the ref was fine - he did go through a couple of patches where he only refereed one side, but I didn't think that the Chiefs got any more bad calls than the Crusaders....
 
Yeah people wonder why anscombe has been playing better for the chiefs than the blues, it's because they usually play him at fullback.

Dagg had hurt his knee in the first half and didnt look right but I thought he played really well around the end of the game there he was everywhere getting the crusaders out if danger
 
Was it me or was Slade bleeding from his right eye at one point? i think before the first kick he put off the upright it looked that way.


Only caught the second half but a really exciting game nonetheless.
 
Anscombe has always been rubbish at 10. I thought Slade played pretty well - he just needs to keep stringing games together, as the more he plays the better he looks. At the start of the season he was certainly behind Tom Taylor in terms of AB's selection, but he is probably moving ahead of him at the moment.

Agreed. I've always been a fan of Slade... I feared his career was over but I'm glad to see him performing.
 
Im not convinced Anscombe wont come right for them at 10. He had a bit of a shocker at times tonight but this was a different kettle of fish to the usual games. The Saders are playing proper Crusaders rugby again (although still some weird errors going on) so this was always going to be alot of pressure for him.

Slade is just capable of a far more mature looking game than pretty much any other flyhalf in the comp atm imo. People have got to remember he was second/third choice at the last WC. He's been unlucky with injuries and Crudens continued rise..... Although I honestly believe both DC and Cruden have actually played their best rugby for the AB's. DC's was circa 2005 and Crudens was post 11' WC.

He tackles well on the 10 channel which other than DC none of our other 10's are outstanding at which like Kerr Barlow is why I would select him above others that might be slightly better in other areas. When we are playing finals in next WC in England we will need solid D players imo.

If we are in a tight match and can bring Slade and TKB on that would stiffen our defence up no end.
 
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What a crappy penalty awarded by the referee near the end of the game, penalising the Chiefs player for a high tackle. The tackled player completely fell into the tackle. Absolutely awful call.
 
Not sure which are more annoying, cow bells in Waikato or vuvuzela's
 
While I agree, there were at least as many Chiefs lineouts that weren't straight that the ref missed (he did pick up 2-3). I think the ref was fine - he did go through a couple of patches where he only refereed one side, but I didn't think that the Chiefs got any more bad calls than the Crusaders....

Yeah but when you are at this level you cannot miss that much, some bad calls and it cost us the match, was the same as Joubert and the Cheetahs match when he awarded 2 tries that were clearly not tries.

It is really frustrating that the refs can be this incompetent some times.
 
What a crappy penalty awarded by the referee near the end of the game, penalising the Chiefs player for a high tackle. The tackled player completely fell into the tackle. Absolutely awful call.

Doesn't matter. The Law and the Guidance is that ALL of the responsibility for the height of the tackle is on the shoulders of the tackler

► starts low and rides up - tackler's responsibility
► ball carrier falls or stumbles, and tackler hits him high - tackler's responsibility.

Personally, I don't think it should be like that. I don't like it any more than you do, but you can't blame the referee for bad Law when he makes a correct call in Law.

Also, I could argue the PK he gave the Chiefs that levelled the game at 9-9 was totally incorrect. The Crusaders winger was tackled, then before he could even try to pass the ball, the tackler pulled his leg back to stop him placing or passing the ball. While it is true that the Crusader's winger subsequently failed to release, the FIRST offence was the Chiefs player not releasing him, and this is what should have been penalised.

I don't think its fair to argue that the referee cost the Chiefs the game. What cost them was their inability to break down the Crusaders defence in the second half.
 
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Im not convinced Anscombe wont come right for them at 10. He had a bit of a shocker at times tonight but this was a different kettle of fish to the usual games. The Saders are playing proper Crusaders rugby again (although still some weird errors going on) so this was always going to be alot of pressure for him.

It's not really a matter of him coming right. He has never looked good at 10, even at ITM Cup level. His style of play just doesn't suit the 10 jersey. He struggles when he has to make decisions under pressure (and because of that stands far too deep on attack), never seems to be able to find space when he is kicking (instead kicking straight down the oppositions throats), and struggles with the physicality required on defense in the 10 jersey. While he may eventually become a good 10 (he still is very young), but I don't think it is as easy as just spending time in the position.

Slade is just capable of a far more mature looking game than pretty much any other flyhalf in the comp atm imo. People have got to remember he was second/third choice at the last WC. He's been unlucky with injuries and Crudens continued rise..... Although I honestly believe both DC and Cruden have actually played their best rugby for the AB's. DC's was circa 2005 and Crudens was post 11' WC.

He tackles well on the 10 channel which other than DC none of our other 10's are outstanding at which like Kerr Barlow is why I would select him above others that might be slightly better in other areas. When we are playing finals in next WC in England we will need solid D players imo.

If we are in a tight match and can bring Slade and TKB on that would stiffen our defence up no end.

Slade has played well these last couple of matches, but there is still a massive gap between our top 3 10's (Carter, Barrett, and Cruden), and the next couple (Slade & Taylor). I don't think Slade's game is any more 'mature' than any of our top 10's - I've been very impressed with the Barrett's decision making this season. Slade was the 2nd choice at the last RWC but that was basically by default. It certainly wasn't based on form - he has been injured most of the previous seasons - it was simply that the other options were either rubbish (Donald), not yet ready (Cruden), or had spat the dummy and left (McAlister). Our options at 10 are far better at the moment - we basically have 3 world options to choose from (when they are all fit). Obviously with Carter (and possibly Cruden) out for the June tests they may need to consider Slade (or Taylor) - if Slade keeps playing the way he is he may get a recall.

You make a good point about Slade's defense - he seldom misses a tackle, and is very committed on the cover defense. However I don't think his line speed on defense is overly impressive - the opposition won't break the line, but they will probably get to the advantage line most times with him there. One of the biggest issues with Slade is his tactical kicking. He doesn't get great distance on his kicks, and he has a habit o kicking left footed, even when it is not required (which gives him even less distance). Like Anscombe he tends to kick the ball straight down the throat of opposition players - if the Crusaders need to clear the ball Dagg is a far better option. Some of Slade's best skills are actually his 'fullback skills' - his ability under the high-ball and counterattacking from the back. Unfortunately the way the Crusaders and All Blacks use Read at the moment he doesn't really get to use these skills at all.

What really impressed me last night was Slade's goal-kicking. It wasn't just the fact he got 6/8 (with the 2 misses hitting the upright), it was the way he was striking the ball. Previously he used to just chip at the ball - it was no surprise that he kicked less than 70% with this style. Last night he was striking beautifully through the ball - with that sort of style there is no reason why he couldn't develop into an excellent goal-kicker (which he will need to if he is to be considered for the AB's).

Anyways, a couple more thoughts on the game:

- Barring the yellow card I thought Bird had a fantastic game. He is a very physical player with a big work-rate (ala Retallick), and (given his size) is pretty useful in the lineout too. The 3rd AB's lock position is still pretty open in my opinion - Romano has never convinced me (and is injured), Thrush is solid (but unspectacular), and while Tuipolotu shows promise he is still very raw. If Bird continues his form he could well be in the AB's squad in June.
- Taufua made a good fist of his first start at 6. I actually thought Luke Whitelock did well when he came on too (though they missed Read).
- Nadolo looked dangerous on the wing - he is one of the only Crusaders backs who looks like he can break a tackle. He does make a few tackles, but he misses a lot too - that may end up being an issue when your fullback isn't able to cover for your mistakes....
- Retallick is a beast. You could really appreciate how much work he does when he got his shirt ripped off (hence he stood out from the rest of the players) - he must have run the ball 3 times and hit 6 breakdowns (at full speed!) in a 1 minute period.
- Tom Marshall was the pick of the Chiefs backs. He broke tackles whenever he touched the ball. I bet the Crusaders wish they still had him on their roster!
 
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I don't think its fair to argue that the referee cost the Chiefs the game. What cost them was their inability to break down the Crusaders defence in the second half.

I disagree, seemed like a real lack of consistency to me, don't get me wrong the Crusaders played good and the Chiefs had there chances but stats all point to the Chiefs and as in the 1st game of the year the Crusaders get the run of the ref.
 
Did anyone else think the Willie Hienz's passing was absolutely disgraceful? The amount of times the Crusaders had to scramble back to pick up loose passes was ridiculas, and when they weren't scrambling they were often having to halt the runs to catch passes that were behind them....Rubbsh play from Hienz! Oh and Brodie is a BEAST (agreed Darwin). Best forward in NZ I think now by far!
 
Did anyone else think the Willie Hienz's passing was absolutely disgraceful? The amount of times the Crusaders had to scramble back to pick up loose passes was ridiculas, and when they weren't scrambling they were often having to halt the runs to catch passes that were behind them....Rubbsh play from Hienz! Oh and Brodie is a BEAST (agreed Darwin). Best forward in NZ I think now by far!

Yeah Heinz's passing was poor this match. He has a fast flat (and usually accurate) pass, which can be great for giving your backline some space. Unfortunately he still has the odd game where he seems to lose his accuracy completely, and ends up having a shocker. At times like this the Crusaders needs to get him off the field ASAP!
 
Nadolo made some good runs but I think because of his big size he doesn't have the acceleration or agility of a quick winger, he can't change direction quickly. Thats why I liked him better when he was playing center
 
Darwin;637104 Slade has played well these last couple of matches said:
Thats assuming Dan still has a game in him (he is very wilkinson like atm "injury on injury" and getting a bit passed it imo). And Cruden needs to bring some of that flat line breaking ability back as I havent seen it in a while and when he played for the AB's last year imo he was not that great at all (probably played his best in the early internationals and super rugby). Infact Barrett outplayed both of them when he got opportunities.... and Barrett imo is still untested at this level the teams he has played havent been quite at full strength. The boks were close to their best but they are missing a decent fullback and the right tactics and the wallabies were terrible so im not reading much into his performances yet.

Im not a believer in Taylor in any way. He is just a journeyman player at best Donald was a better 10 than he will ever be.
 
My thoughts:

- Rhys Marshall is getting better every week in his all round play. At the moment I think that in the open he is playing the best of any hooker in New Zealand. Unfortunately his line out throwing his completely letting him down. I thought the Chiefs were a bit unlucky in the lineouts, the Crusaders looked to be closing the gap and there was the odd throw ruled not straight that looked to be fine, but he's still been very poor in this important facet of the role. Liam Coltman has played more consistently over all, but hasn't really shone out in any area of the game. To be honest I think both hookers are not ready to be brought into the All Blacks just yet, I'm 90% certain we'll see Mealamu, Coles and Flynn as the three hookers in the next year or two, with Marshall and Coltman coming into the reckoning in 2016.
- Retallick is immense every single week.
- I don't actually think Anscombe played as poorly as people are saying, in fact Slade wasn't much better (the two kicks he missed weren't exactly hard), and it's not like he helped his team score any tries. The one area of the game that the NZ teams were frustratingly poor at this weekend was kicking - how often did you see a kick find space in either of the two derbies we saw? Anscombe, Slade, Barrett all did this time and time again, and the other players in the backlines weren't much better. It's aimless and is harming every team's chances.
- Payne was terrible for the Chiefs, I know he's only young but some of his play was down right awful and thoughtless.

- A few of the Crusaders players seemed to drift in and out of the match. I didn't really notice Sam Whitelock at all, and I wasn't even sure Taylor was playing until he popped up round the 60th minute.
- All of the Crusaders penetration seemed to come from broken play - they didn't make much ground from general play, it was only when they received (terrible) kicks that they were able to do any damage, and 90% of the time the damage was caused by Nadolo. He must be a scary player to defend against, but I'm not certain how good is handling is, given how many times he lost the ball in the contact (though there were a lot of unforced errors from both sides, I assume a lot of this can be attributed to the rain).

Couple of points regarding the refereeing (and rules in general):

- I thought the ref's use of the advantage rule was pretty haphazard, he seemed to call advantage over pretty early in the sequence. Once near the start the Chiefs had an advantage and after one phase of not making the advantage line he called them back, whereas only a few minutes later the same thing happened to the Crusaders but he let them play on for three or four phases where they didn't make the gain line. At one point in the game the Chiefs earned a penalty when there were almost no Crusaders defenders left and instead of letting play continue the ref blew his whistle, which was very frustrating. By and large I did like how he refereed knock on advantages, in my opinion if you're in the middle of the field and the other team knocks on the ball, as long as you get clean ball it should be advantage over and play on.
- One of the most absurd rules in my opinion is that when the attacking team knocks the ball on over the try line, and the defending player grounds the ball, play is called back for the scrum. The whole point of the advantage law is to give the best outcome to the team with the advantage, so why then do we not see a 22 take place? This is obviously the more beneficial situation for the defending team and makes far more sense than playing the scrum.
 
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Nadolo made some good runs but I think because of his big size he doesn't have the acceleration or agility of a quick winger, he can't change direction quickly. Thats why I liked him better when he was playing center

Nadolo's lack of mobility is an issue, and the Crusaders need to be careful not to leave him isolated on defense, as agile wingers can exploit this. He is also very slow to turn back and chase kicks, so there is often a lot of space in behind his wing (Dagg to his credit did a pretty good job of covering this though). I'm not sure playing him at centre is the answer though. His ball handling doesn't look that great, and his distribution skills aren't overly apparent, so the Crusaders wings would be unlikely to see any ball. However the current Crusaders wing options (apart from Nadolo himself) aren't exactly looking threatening, so it probably wouldn't make any difference if they got the ball or not!

My thoughts:

- Rhys Marshall is getting better every week in his all round play. At the moment I think that in the open he is playing the best of any hooker in New Zealand. Unfortunately his line out throwing his completely letting him down. I thought the Chiefs were a bit unlucky in the lineouts, the Crusaders looked to be closing the gap and there was the odd throw ruled not straight that looked to be fine, but he's still been very poor in this important facet of the role. Liam Coltman has played more consistently over all, but hasn't really shone out in any area of the game. To be honest I think both hookers are not ready to be brought into the All Blacks just yet, I'm 90% certain we'll see Mealamu, Coles and Flynn as the three hookers in the next year or two, with Marshall and Coltman coming into the reckoning in 2016.

I was impressed with Marshall's work around the field this week too. He is the most dynamic of any of the NZ hookers (alongside Coles) - he just seems to be everywhere at times. I don't think he has been any more impressive around the field than Coltman though. Coltman is less dynamic but far more physical, makes a few more tackles, and has been better at the breakdown IMO. I just think Coltmans game is better suited for test rugby than Marshall's at the moment, though I do like what I see from Marshall. The lineout throwing of both is a major concern though. Ben Funnell is the other young hooker who has been playing pretty well recently, but like Coltman and Marshall he doesn't look quite ready to step up to test level yet.

I think you may be correct when you suggest Flynn may be the 3rd choice AB's hooker this year. He is getting on a bit, but he is still playing good rugby, and the AB's selectors know they will get a consistent performance out of him every week. It would be very interesting if he did get picked again for the AB's - he was selected for the last RWC as a 'safe' option but hasn't been picked since (as the AB's selectors have been looking for younger alternatives). He may be developing into a Rugby World Cup specialist!

- I don't actually think Anscombe played as poorly as people are saying, in fact Slade wasn't much better (the two kicks he missed weren't exactly hard), and it's not like he helped his team score any tries. The one area of the game that the NZ teams were frustratingly poor at this weekend was kicking - how often did you see a kick find space in either of the two derbies we saw? Anscombe, Slade, Barrett all did this time and time again, and the other players in the backlines weren't much better. It's aimless and is harming every team's chances.
Anscombe wasn't terrible, he just wasn't very good. He stands so deep that the Chiefs backline are on the backfoot before they even receive the ball. Personally I think he is far better suited to fullback - I would start Horrell at 10 (as he is wasted at 13) and shift Anscombe to 15 where his pace and long kicking game can be a real asset (Marshall is equally valuable on the wing).

- Payne was terrible for the Chiefs, I know he's only young but some of his play was down right awful and thoughtless.
While I agree I don't think it should really be a surprise. I mean who is Jordan Payne? The only info I have on him comes from a recent article I read: (http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...ordan-Payne-revels-in-Super-chance-for-Chiefs). This article states that he is a midfield back that had played almost no rugby on the wing. It also states that not only have he played no ITM Cup rugby, but he has only played a single game of senior club rugby - the highest level of rugby he has played is under-21 club rugby (Even I have play at that level!). I can't for the life of me work out why he is now starting on the wing for the Chiefs!

Couple of points regarding the refereeing (and rules in general):


- One of the most absurd rules in my opinion is that when the attacking team knocks the ball on over the try line, and the defending player grounds the ball, play is called back for the scrum. The whole point of the advantage law is to give the best outcome to the team with the advantage, so why then do we not see a 22 take place? This is obviously the more beneficial situation for the defending team and makes far more sense than playing the scrum.

I'm glad you pointed this out, as this is something I can never understand. All referees seem to treat this situation the same, so either there is some protocol stating how the advantage law should be applied in this circumstance or all referees are thick and can't work out that a 22m drop out is a better option for a side than a 5m scrum!

Thats assuming Dan still has a game in him (he is very wilkinson like atm "injury on injury" and getting a bit passed it imo). And Cruden needs to bring some of that flat line breaking ability back as I havent seen it in a while and when he played for the AB's last year imo he was not that great at all (probably played his best in the early internationals and super rugby). Infact Barrett outplayed both of them when he got opportunities.... and Barrett imo is still untested at this level the teams he has played havent been quite at full strength. The boks were close to their best but they are missing a decent fullback and the right tactics and the wallabies were terrible so im not reading much into his performances yet.

Im not a believer in Taylor in any way. He is just a journeyman player at best Donald was a better 10 than he will ever be.

Taylor's is a good rugby player, his problem is that he is very much a utility. He never seems to get more than a couple of games in one position, so it is really hard to know exactly where he is best suited. He is a good defender, and does the basics well, but I don't think he is very well suited to first-five as he struggles to really get his backline going. To me he is a traditional second-five in the mould of Aaron Mauger, but there is no demand for these sort of players in the NZ game at the moment. Taylor's biggest strengths are his goal-kicking and composure - he looked incredibly comfortable on his test debut against the Wallabies last season. He played far better in that match than Colin Slade has in any of his 11 matches in black. For me it would be a 50:50 call between Slade and Taylor for the AB's if Cruden is unavailable - Slade is in better form (and is actually playing 10), but Taylor has looked far more comfortable at test level so far.

Donald was a very good Super Rugby player (better than either Slade or Taylor), but his unique style of first-five play (run straight and hard at the nearest player) wasn't really suited for test level....
 
Nadolo may have several deficiencies but I think the x-factor he brings to the Crusaders backline more than makes up for those. He has added a spark to the Crusaders backline that I havent seen for quite some time. Hopefully he will be able to work on some of those issues you guys have highlighted, but in the mean time it is a welcome relief to see the Crusaders backline actually getting over the advantage line and breaking tackles.....
 

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