2014 Super Rugby: Blues vs Reds (Round 12)

[Jaguares]

Oooohhhh my dear Reds!!!!

 

[ruggabee]

Feel bad for Benji.. The Blues turn it on when he leaves. But lets see if they keep it up. I hope so.

 

[lynam1104]

Feel bad for Benji.. The Blues turn it on when he leaves. But lets see if they keep it up. I hope so.

I don't he cant keep up with the tough times he doesn't deserve the good times.

 

[ruggabee]

I don't he cant keep up with the tough times he doesn't deserve the good times.

I think he would've if he was a few years younger. He's only got a couple years left, what's the point in spending it in a lower division? He doesn't have the time like SBW and Folau had.

 

[lynam1104]

I think he would've if he was a few years younger. He's only got a couple years left, what's the point in spending it in a lower division? He doesn't have the time like SBW and Folau had.

Or the talent. Benji's biggest failing is that he was a 10 in league, the thing is the positions are similar enough to look like skills would transfer but ultimately 10 in NRL and 10 in Union are miles away. The other thing is he didn't have the physical ability like Folua or SBW to make it.

 

[nzlizard]

Great game by the Blues, Nonu is SR this year is streaks ahead of last year, Piutau had a great game as did Saili and Kanio in the forwards, surely Kaino is back in frame for the AB's all ready. O'Connor was a great replacement for Braid. Kinda felt the whole team played well, Blues looking like they have future potential @ 10.

Well, the Reds were great chasing the kick-offs and Genia was in great form, Simmons was stupid and game away so many dumb penalties, I am really surprised players can be so ****ing stupid at this level.

 

[ABs2011]

Only caught a few minutes of the game and the highlights, but Nonu seems to be going really well. What are the Nonu haters gonna do now that he seems to be playing well in SR??

Good on the Blues, hat was a nice win by the looks. They seem to have confidence back in the team now. Shame it has coincided with Luatua being benched, and interesting it has also coincided with Benji gone

 

[Shaggy]

Only caught a few minutes of the game and the highlights, but Nonu seems to be going really well. What are the Nonu haters gonna do now that he seems to be playing well in SR??

Good on the Blues, hat was a nice win by the looks. They seem to have confidence back in the team now. Shame it has coincided with Luatua being benched, and interesting it has also coincided with Benji gone

I guess I can put myself in the "Nonu Hater" category ... if the definition is that he's had so many chances/the franchises deserve better quality from him ... In answer to your question, if it's fair to criticise a player when they aren't performing, then it's only fair to give them raps when they are performing ... so well done Nonu for stepping up for the franchise that stepped up for you

 

[ABs2011]

I guess I can put myself in the "Nonu Hater" category ... if the definition is that he's had so many chances/the franchises deserve better quality from him ... In answer to your question, if it's fair to criticise a player when they aren't performing, then it's only fair to give them raps when they are performing ... so well done Nonu for stepping up for the franchise that stepped up for you

I should explain myself My thing with the "Nonu haters", and I call them that because I felt they let emotions get in the way of proper rugby analysis, has never been in relation to SR, in fact he deserved much of the criticism he got. It was many of the same people though that were calling for his blood at AB level as well. I always felt people were getting a bit caught up in the hype and emotion of bagging his SR performances, his attitude, and the many disappointments, and forgetting that at international level the guy has consistently been a dominant world class 12. He has always deserved his spot in the AB team IMHO, in fact there was really no two ways about it. He is arguably one of the best 12s in the world and has been for a while. I always found it quite funny that with respect to All Black rugby, many so called rugby enthusiast seemed to get so caught up in the emotions and forgot to focus on actually analyzing his game.

The point really is that at SR level his critics were justified but at International level I felt people didn't really have a leg to stand on cause the guy has been a rock for a while now, and for some time the ABs haven't really had anyone close to challenging for his spot (so long as SBW aint here). So what I was initially trying to say was, now that Nonu seems to be back in SR form, its gonna be pretty hard for people to make a case for his AB dropping.

 

[austingtir]

I guess I can put myself in the "Nonu Hater" category ... if the definition is that he's had so many chances/the franchises deserve better quality from him ... In answer to your question, if it's fair to criticise a player when they aren't performing, then it's only fair to give them raps when they are performing ... so well done Nonu for stepping up for the franchise that stepped up for you

Nonu pretty much by himself dismantled that Reds team. I must say either Henry or Kirwan has come up with that tactic of running nonu from 10 and its a master stroke especially against teams like the reds with cooper actually trying to defend at 10. In 2011 they got embarrassed by this reds team shoes on the other foot now. This just proves to me Hiki is not the answer they need to give West as much time as possible to get him up to speed but he like Hiki is also to small to be a real first class 10. The search continues..... But if the Blues ever do find a world class 10 look out they will dominate super rugby again.....

I would suspect Hiki or West might be better attacking from 10 against heavy forward pack sides if they can get a mismatch on attack otherwise id be running Nonu there all the time as he looked unstoppable tonight and his decision making was as good as it gets.

 

[ABs2011]

Nonu pretty much by himself dismantled that Reds team imo. I must say either Henry or Kirwan has come up with that tactic of running nonu from 10 and its a master stroke especially against teams like the reds with cooper actually trying to defend at 10. In 2011 they got embarrassed by this reds team shoes on the other foot now. This just proves to me Hiki is not the answer they need to give West as much time as possible to get him up to speed but he like Hiki is also to small to be a real first class 10 imo. The search continues imo. But if the Blues ever do find a world class 10 look out they will dominate super rugby again.....

I would suspect Hiki or West might be better attacking from 10 against heavy forward pack sides if they can get a mismatch on attack otherwise id be running Nonu there all the time as he looked unstoppable tonight and his decision making was as good as it gets.

I think you will find that West will play the same role that Barrett has played for the ABs, and that is using his electric speed and skills off the bench when the other blokes are a bit buggered after 60 to 70 minutes of rugby. That will give him a chance to develop and shine. He will slowly be brought up to speed as a starter and when ready he will get his shot - that's how I would develop him anyway. Another season in ITM cup will do wonders for him. I hope they put a lot of effort in to his D. Maybe next year we will see him get some starting time in SR? Remains to be seen what club it will be with though. Blues have only got him for this season right?

 

[steblin]

Was at the game last night and just rewatched it this morning, fantastic game, lots of good performances, I'll try and sum it up in a few points.

Our front row now look solid in all set pieces, all three really put in the effort around the park
Tuipolotu has been a revelation
Loose trio in such good form, no drop off with the backups and Kaino is pure quality
Bryn Hall has made a massive difference, been in great form. Piri has a really good role off the bench
With Hickey and West two very exciting young 10's, Baden Kerr must be worried!
Nonu ... He's found his form. Playing well and looks like he's in a good place with the Blues emotionally, awesome to see
Visinia is the pick of the wings at the minute, looks dangerous, Moala as well has been great this year
Piutaus running is just getting stronger and stronger, he'll bump off anyone!

 

[Shaggy]

I should explain myself My thing with the "Nonu haters", and I call them that because I felt they let emotions get in the way of proper rugby analysis, has never been in relation to SR, in fact he deserved much of the criticism he got. It was many of the same people though that were calling for his blood at AB level as well. I always felt people were getting a bit caught up in the hype and emotion of bagging his SR performances, his attitude, and the many disappointments, and forgetting that at international level the guy has consistently been a dominant world class 12. He has always deserved his spot in the AB team IMHO, in fact there was really no two ways about it. He is arguably one of the best 12s in the world and has been for a while. I always found it quite funny that with respect to All Black rugby, many so called rugby enthusiast seemed to get so caught up in the emotions and forgot to focus on actually analyzing his game.

The point really is that at SR level his critics were justified but at International level I felt people didn't really have a leg to stand on cause the guy has been a rock for a while now, and for some time the ABs haven't really had anyone close to challenging for his spot (so long as SBW aint here). So what I was initially trying to say was, now that Nonu seems to be back in SR form, its gonna be pretty hard for people to make a case for his AB dropping.

Fair enough ... I never really had a problem with him at All Black level, and I guess I can sort of understand that some All Blacks might not see that Super Rugby isn't as important as test rugby, but, the fact is that you have to be playing in NZ to be eligible to play for the ABs, and the Super Rugby franchises have a right (just like any employer) to expect a certain level of performance (and attitude) ... given that there are only five squads (employers) that he could play for, and he'd already burn't his bridges with three of them by the end of last season, he was lucky that the Blues gave him another chance.

... like I said earlier, it looks like he's repaying the Blues with good form, and stepping up in an on field leadership role, so that's all I asked for anyway

I think you will find that West will play the same role that Barrett has played for the ABs, and that is using his electric speed and skills off the bench when the other blokes are a bit buggered after 60 to 70 minutes of rugby. That will give him a chance to develop and shine. He will slowly be brought up to speed as a starter and when ready he will get his shot - that's how I would develop him anyway. Another season in ITM cup will do wonders for him. I hope they put a lot of effort in to his D. Maybe next year we will see him get some starting time in SR? Remains to be seen what club it will be with though. Blues have only got him for this season right?

I agree ... West is totally suited to exploiting the defensive holes late in the game, so using him off the bench is a great use of his talent ... yes the Blues have him for the rest of the season, but I believe that he is open for anyone to pick him up next year ... the Blues appear to be losing Noakes to London Irish, and have already lost Benji, so there could be opening for him there ... although I also heard that the Blues are trying to get Anscombe back as well

 

[ABs2011]

Fair enough ... I never really had a problem with him at All Black level, and I guess I can sort of understand that some All Blacks might not see that Super Rugby isn't as important as test rugby, but, the fact is that you have to be playing in NZ to be eligible to play for the ABs, and the Super Rugby franchises have a right (just like any employer) to expect a certain level of performance (and attitude) ... given that there are only five squads (employers) that he could play for, and he'd already burn't his bridges with three of them by the end of last season, he was lucky that the Blues gave him another chance.

... like I said earlier, it looks like he's repaying the Blues with good form, and stepping up in an on field leadership role, so that's all I asked for anyway

I agree ... West is totally suited to exploiting the defensive holes late in the game, so using him off the bench is a great use of his talent ... yes the Blues have him for the rest of the season, but I believe that he is open for anyone to pick him up next year ... the Blues appear to be losing Noakes to London Irish, and have already lost Benji, so there could be opening for him there ... although I also heard that the Blues are trying to get Anscombe back as well

Agree with what u say re Nonu.

Watch for the Blues to make another big play for Barrett next year now that they have some $ available post Benji. My understanding is they were about $100k away from getting Barrett last year but they decided they were better off spending the $ on Benji..........

 

[nzlizard]

Agree with what u say re Nonu.

Watch for the Blues to make another big play for Barrett next year now that they have some $ available post Benji. My understanding is they were about $100k away from getting Barrett last year but they decided they were better off spending the $ on Benji..........

Yeah look at what Barrett does for the Canes, the Blues back line is just as good so he would direct that nicely.

This would be Nonu's best SR year for a while and will certainly have earn't his June test call up this year, instead of relying on past AB form to get the nod.

 

[Darwin]

Nonu pretty much by himself dismantled that Reds team. I must say either Henry or Kirwan has come up with that tactic of running nonu from 10 and its a master stroke especially against teams like the reds with cooper actually trying to defend at 10. In 2011 they got embarrassed by this reds team shoes on the other foot now. This just proves to me Hiki is not the answer they need to give West as much time as possible to get him up to speed but he like Hiki is also to small to be a real first class 10. The search continues..... But if the Blues ever do find a world class 10 look out they will dominate super rugby again.....

I would suspect Hiki or West might be better attacking from 10 against heavy forward pack sides if they can get a mismatch on attack otherwise id be running Nonu there all the time as he looked unstoppable tonight and his decision making was as good as it gets.

I'm not sure I quite understand what you are saying here. The Blues ran Nonu a lot at first receiver this match to attack Cooper. It was a very effective tactic this match, but I hardly see how this suggests Hickey is not up to it! Hickey had another very good match. He made his tackles, kicked well (both from hand and at goal), and even took the line on well on occasion. I do think he stands too deep on attack a lot of the time (ala Gareth Anscombe), but he is a 20-year old kid in his 1st season of Super Rugby - he is only going to get better. Overall he's had a fantastic debut season at this level - few New Zealand players are even playing Super Rugby at his age, let alone looking comfortable in arguably the most high pressure position on the field! Obviously he still has improvements to make, but if he continues the way he is going he is going to be an excellent Super Rugby player.

I have a lot of time for West too, but he is a very different style of player. He is certainly a massive threat with ball in hand but other aspects of his game (tactical kicking, defense etc) still need a lot of work. Like Hickey he has the potential to be an excellent Super Rugby player - he will need a season or two at this level before he fulfills that potential though...

EDIT: Looks like the Blues midfield resources will be stretched with both Saili and Willison ruled out for extended periods of time (Willison 4-6 weeks, Saili 6-8 weeks). I suppose that means we will see a lot more of Moala at centre (where he's done a good job so far this season), and I'm looking forward to seeing a bit more of Pita Ahki.

 

[austingtir]

I'm not sure I quite understand what you are saying here. The Blues ran Nonu a lot at first receiver this match to attack Cooper. It was a very effective tactic this match, but I hardly see how this suggests Hickey is not up to it! Hickey had another very good match. He made his tackles, kicked well (both from hand and at goal), and even took the line on well on occasion. I do think he stands too deep on attack a lot of the time (ala Gareth Anscombe), but he is a 20-year old kid in his 1st season of Super Rugby - he is only going to get better. Overall he's had a fantastic debut season at this level - few New Zealand players are even playing Super Rugby at his age, let alone looking comfortable in arguably the most high pressure position on the field! Obviously he still has improvements to make, but if he continues the way he is going he is going to be an excellent Super Rugby player.

I have a lot of time for West too, but he is a very different style of player. He is certainly a massive threat with ball in hand but other aspects of his game (tactical kicking, defense etc) still need a lot of work. Like Hickey he has the potential to be an excellent Super Rugby player - he will need a season or two at this level before he fulfills that potential though...

EDIT: Looks like the Blues midfield resources will be stretched with both Saili and Willison ruled out for extended periods of time (Willison 4-6 weeks, Saili 6-8 weeks). I suppose that means we will see a lot more of Moala at centre (where he's done a good job so far this season), and I'm looking forward to seeing a bit more of Pita Ahki.

Well its pretty simple Nonu looked like a flyhalf on steroids in this match I thought he was outstanding. I know you like Hiki but he's just not the answer when Nonu has to come in and basically run play on attack like that its just crazy even if he was very carter like at times imo. I just cant see Hiki ever developing that far (i see West as having more outright potential actually) but both of them need an experienced guy there to learn off and they aint going to get that.

Excellent super rugby player isnt good enough for the Blues imo. They need the Best to ever be a force again. They need to find that next AB's first five star.

The Blues NEED a creative flyhalf and Nonu provided that this time. I have no idea weather he can consistently deliver at anything close to that but we'll see I guess.

I would even go as far as to say Barrett is not the right fit for this Blues team either he'd be more effective than what they have now but still not what id be looking for in a Blues first five.

 

[nzlizard]

I would even go as far as to say Barrett is not the right fit for this Blues team either he'd be more effective than what they have now but still not what id be looking for in a Blues first five.

In what way is he not the right fit?

 

[769832]

EDIT: Looks like the Blues midfield resources will be stretched with both Saili and Willison ruled out for extended periods of time (Willison 4-6 weeks, Saili 6-8 weeks). I suppose that means we will see a lot more of Moala at centre (where he's done a good job so far this season), and I'm looking forward to seeing a bit more of Pita Ahki.

Dam, really wanted to see more of the nonu/saili combo. Maybe time to try piutau at center? I think j.k. sad he wanted to at the beginning of the season and Visinia looks like a solid 15. would like to see some more of tevita li too.

 

[nzlizard]

Maybe time to try piutau at center? I think j.k. sad he wanted to at the beginning of the season and Visinia looks like a solid 15. would like to see some more of tevita li too.

I thought that Piutau may have been a potential replacement for Conrad Smith last year, Fekitoa seems more the likely this year.

Was never a fan of Ben Smith at centre so thought maybe Piutau could fill the gap.