2014 Six Nations: Ireland vs Wales (Round 2)

[big ginger 8]

Fitzgerald and Reddan are definitely out.

 

[Big Ewis]

I don't think this will be much of a factor tbh Front rows are very evenly matched. We will be tested most in defense tbh, North and Robert's are hard men to stop but I'd have faith in D'Arcy and BOD =.

Ireland will be tested in both. I don't think Ireland are evenly matched in the scrum, Jones will be well countered by Healy but Mike Ross vs Jenkins ?...as two whole units though Wales should have an advantage. We'll see.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

Henry, mmyeah interesting what you're saying but I don't see it as concern for Wales. Having huge backs has worked more often than not.
Just against Italy the other day, Wales only gets through because Roberts is a 110kg monster at midfield.
Last year, France and Wales play a hugely intense game with immense defense on both sides, North only scores because again he's a 110kg monster.

Roberts, North, Cuthbert, Davies...even Philips at SH. I know this is getting old from my part, but it's still isn't less true: no substitute for pure mass in Rugby. That formula works, and will continue to work. You can't just "figure out" Wales and know you'll defend well and win, there's not much learning from defending massive frontal impacts. Guys like Tuilagi and North and Roberts are gonna continue to break with consistency because they're on good teams with other concerns for the opposite defense to get their hands full from, and 110kg in a back is just gon make breaks homie, always and always and forevermore.
Gatland understood that very fast, and has utilized it perfectly.

IF Wales win the ***le again, some will still continue to point out and criticize the one-dimensional-ness. If they don't, it will be even more reason for those same critics to point out that Wales are one-dimensional, but regardless of either case it's not a flaw but a quality, and a quality only. The huger the better, just so long as they're mobile and have some sense of Rugby running. Roberts ain't exactly an athletic grace to watch, he runs straight and breaks tackles...period.

So in conclusion, that's by far their best bet for 2015. They're not going to change the whole culture of the team they'd been building since late 2011 and develop Wallaby-like flair, and those guys are young enough, and that's what they should - and will - use for London 2015.


EDIT: oh so G.Jenkins is back for Wales. Good, Ireland will be truly tested in the scrum with a fully healthy front row for the visitors.

I don't know what where your obsession for 'mass' comes from? It's not the ultimate factor - do you not remember Wales / Ireland last year? 30-3 at one stage? We had Gilroy and Zebo on the wings, with BOD at 13 who are all relatively small.

Ireland will be tested in both. I don't think Ireland are evenly matched in the scrum, Jones will be well countered by Healy but Mike Ross vs Jenkins ?...as two whole units though Wales should have an advantage. We'll see.

How even old is Jenkins now? The Welsh scrum isn't what it used to be, from what I saw of the Italy match they struggled a bit at times, we pretty much dominated Scotland last week (without POC) and done the same to (nearly) the same Welsh scrummaging unit last year.

 

[psychic duck]

I don't know what where your obsession for 'mass' comes from? It's not the ultimate factor - do you not remember Wales / Ireland last year? 30-3 at one stage? We had Gilroy and Zebo on the wings, with BOD at 13 who are all relatively small.

It comes from someone who simply doesn't really understand the game and only notices the highlight stuff big hits and breaks etc. And the biggest players tend to stand out more, that morbidly obese French centre is a prime example, stands out and excites the casual fans with big hits, others can notice that he loses possession in contact regularly and starves his outside backs of the ball and is at best an impact sub at this level. Same poster thinks Banahan is an international standard player btw.

 

[dullonien]

Why are people surprised that Gatland is selecting his favourites? He has made it blatantly clear that form won't get in the way of his selections. One rule for most, a different for 'the clique'.

Certainly true for Priestland, but it doesn't necessarily continue throughout the rest of the side for this game. We struggled a little at the breakdown last week, whilst Ireland dominated that area against Scotland. Jenkins and Warbs have been brought in to shore up that crucial area of the game. Paul James and Tipuric didn't stand-out last week, so I have no problem at all with those changes.

Webb on the bench is the other odd choice. I do have a soft spot for Webb, very talented player, but he's just too inconsistent. He's just as likely to kick a box-kick backwards as he is to make a searing break. He was also slow getting to the breakdown against Italy.

My changes would be: Biggar for Priestland, Samson Lee for Rhodri Jones, Rhodri Williams for Webb, and Priestland for Hook (North covering centre).

 

[psychic duck]

Certainly true for Priestland, but it doesn't necessarily continue throughout the rest of the side for this game. We struggled a little at the breakdown last week, whilst Ireland dominated that area against Scotland. Jenkins and Warbs have been brought in to shore up that crucial area of the game. Paul James and Tipuric didn't stand-out last week, so I have no problem at all with those changes.

Webb on the bench is the other odd choice. I do have a soft spot for Webb, very talented player, but he's just too inconsistent. He's just as likely to kick a box-kick backwards as he is to make a searing break. He was also slow getting to the breakdown against Italy.

My changes would be: Biggar for Priestland, Samson Lee for Rhodri Jones, Rhodri Williams for Webb, and Priestland for Hook (North covering centre).

Literally seen nobody who thinks Rhodri Jones merits a place above Samson Lee. Would like to see Gatland's justification for that decision. As Draggs says, Gatland has certainly found certain favourites in his time in charge, and made clear who he doesn't (Biggar, Richie Rees, Peel).

Hopefully though with Paul James on the bench at loosehead, Rhodri Jones won't be put out in a hopeless situation like he was alongside Bevington against Italy.

 

[Groundhog]

If it were a case of having a big team, we would put out 15 monsters every week. Size isn't worth a damn unless you are technically good. It's professional rugby, nearly every player is excellently conditioned and at the peak of their strength. What matters at this level is handling, creativity and a great rugby brain. Obviously being as big as Roberts doesn't hurt but he wouldn't have cut it at the level if he wasn't technically excellent.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

But Big Ewis, how many games have Wales won which you can put down to size and the gameplan?
Mostly as far as I can see some of their best results have been due to the outstanding class shown by individuals.

When England were beaten by Wales at Twickenam in 2012, the door had stayed firmly shut for 70 minutes, until Scott Williams, ironically the 'skinny kid' on the block, stripped Lawes of the ball. Other Welsh victories have been more because they were a well drilled, more settled more clinical team, than because of them battering down the opposition.
And as Ulsterrugby2012 mentioned Wales' one defeat last six nations was against just about the smallest backline in the tournament.

Also you say there's no substitute for mass in rugby... except that two of the teams who repeatedly beat Wales, Oz and NZ, win not through being bigger then Wales, but through flair and precision in equal measure.

 

[big ginger 8]

Unfortunately I don't think we're going to get the game we're hoping for.

"Saturday looks like being an extremely windy, blustery day, with further rain or showers too, heavy at times. Some severe gusts are possible and there is an ongoing risk of some flooding in this period" - met.ie

 

[psychic duck]

Unfortunately I don't think we're going to get the game we're hoping for.

"Saturday looks like being an extremely windy, blustery day, with further rain or showers too, heavy at times. Some severe gusts are possible and there is an ongoing risk of some flooding in this period" - met.ie

Don't think rain would suit Ireland as Schmidt teams play a wider game with more passing involved than Wales.

 

[munstermuffin]

Unfortunately I don't think we're going to get the game we're hoping for.

"Saturday looks like being an extremely windy, blustery day, with further rain or showers too, heavy at times. Some severe gusts are possible and there is an ongoing risk of some flooding in this period" - met.ie

And on top of that it seems to be a storm from tonight. So I'd ask which forwards do we think will win as I think whoever has the more dominant scrum and brings the physicality to game will win this and Halfpenny and Sexton will need to be accurate off tee

 

[IRISH RUGBY MAN]

If Ireland were picking on mass and size alone. this would be the team
1. Rodney Ah You - 125 Kg
2. Damien Varley - 110 Kg
3. Mike Ross - 127 Kg
4. Lewis Stevenson - 117 Kg
5. Devin Toner - 124 Kg
6. Iain Henderson - 115 Kg
7. Stephen Ferris - 116 Kg
8. Leo Auva'a - 127 Kg
9. Conor Murray - 95 Kg
10. Ian Keatley 92 Kg
11. Tommy Bowe - 102 Kg
12. James Downey - 104 Kg
13. Robbie Henshaw - 98 Kg
14. Darren Hudson - 99 Kg
15. Denis Hurley - 101 Kg
16. Rory Best - 107 Kg
17. Jack McGrath - 122 Kg
18. Martin Moore - 123 Kg
19. Tom Denton - 115 Kg
20. Rhys Ruddock - 111 Kg
21. Isaac Boss - 88 Kg
22. Craig Ronaldson - 92 Kg
23. Luke Marshall - 98 Kg

Imagine this team going up against All Blacks, Wales or South Africa. It is certainly not all about weight or else this team would be picked. Hardly any of these boys would be on the first team, bar Ross, Toner, Ferris, Murray and Bowe, and even two of these aren't starting due to injury, and maybe Toner is not the best option at lock. So it just proves that there are more important qualities than weight, although it does matter, but not as much as people are suggesting.

 

[munstermuffin]

If Ireland were picking on mass and size alone. this would be the team
1. Rodney Ah You - 125 Kg
2. Damien Varley - 110 Kg
3. Mike Ross - 127 Kg
4. Lewis Stevenson - 117 Kg
5. Devin Toner - 124 Kg
6. Iain Henderson - 115 Kg
7. Stephen Ferris - 116 Kg
8. Leo Auva'a - 127 Kg
9. Conor Murray - 95 Kg
10. Ian Keatley 92 Kg
11. Tommy Bowe - 102 Kg
12. James Downey - 104 Kg
13. Robbie Henshaw - 98 Kg
14. Darren Hudson - 99 Kg
15. Denis Hurley - 101 Kg
16. Rory Best - 107 Kg
17. Jack McGrath - 122 Kg
18. Martin Moore - 123 Kg
19. Tom Denton - 115 Kg
20. Rhys Ruddock - 111 Kg
21. Isaac Boss - 88 Kg
22. Craig Ronaldson - 92 Kg
23. Luke Marshall - 98 Kg

Imagine this team going up against All Blacks, Wales or South Africa. It is certainly not all about weight or else this team would be picked. Hardly any of these boys would be on the first team, bar Ross, Toner, Ferris, Murray and Bowe, and even two of these aren't starting due to injury, and maybe Toner is not the best option at lock. So it just proves that there are more important qualities than weight, although it does matter, but not as much as people are suggesting.

Been fair mass can be deceiving for example
Best is bulkier than Varley and Cronin I'd say passes both out but best example is Toner which makes me laugh. Toner is just like a giraffe or something and well is more like a matchstick than a say Brad Thorn/Leo Cullen build

 

[IRISH RUGBY MAN]

Been fair mass can be deceiving for example
Best is bulkier than Varley and Cronin I'd say passes both out but best example is Toner which makes me laugh. Toner is just like a giraffe or something and well is more like a matchstick than a say Brad Thorn/Leo Cullen build

Yes I do agree with this, and the likes of Sean O'Brien and Cian Healy not making this team is due to them having bulk but not as much mass as others.

I know Toner is only in because of the sheer height of him giving him extra weight. But this still is the heaviest team I think possible, and not one I would want really in a heineken cup final never mind a World Cup final

 

[munstermuffin]

Yes I do agree with this, and the likes of Sean O'Brien and Cian Healy not making this team is due to them having bulk but not as much mass as others.

I know Toner is only in because of the sheer height of him giving him extra weight. But this still is the heaviest team I think possible, and not one I would want really in a heineken cup final never mind a World Cup final

My point though is in positions the mass would take in height as well as weight for rugby terms but understand your point. And agree a lot more qualities are more priority requirements

 

[Thingimubob]

Concerning the size debate, parts of the game in Dublin in 2012 had Wales battering the Irish defence with a fair chunk of power. Obviously not everything with north and priestlands skill playing big roles in JD2's tries. North's try (while we were down to 14 men) was an example of using the perfect execution of power for a try

 

[munstermuffin]

Concerning the size debate, parts of the game in Dublin in 2012 had Wales battering the Irish defence with a fair chunk of power. Obviously not everything with north and priestlands skill playing big roles in JD2's tries. North's try (while we were down to 14 men) was an example of using the perfect execution of power for a try

Been honest I've 100% faith in our defence it has been going superbly but attacking is a slight worry.

 

[Thingimubob]

Been honest I've 100% faith in our defence it has been going superbly but attacking is a slight worry.

Oh yeah I don't expect you lot to worry about defence after last year! Although, attacking wise, our attack should challenge you much more than the Scottish did! Heaslip and Kearney's tries were silly easy!

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Both sides looked pretty average in attack in their games but with better defence. If they go into the game roughly the same, I predict a game like the 1st half of the Scottish game, defences performing much better than the attack for both sides.

 

[big ginger 8]

If Ireland were picking on mass and size alone. this would be the team
1. Rodney Ah You - 125 Kg
2. Damien Varley - 110 Kg
3. Mike Ross - 127 Kg
4. Lewis Stevenson - 117 Kg
5. Devin Toner - 124 Kg
6. Iain Henderson - 115 Kg
7. Stephen Ferris - 116 Kg
8. Leo Auva'a - 127 Kg
9. Conor Murray - 95 Kg
10. Ian Keatley 92 Kg
11. Tommy Bowe - 102 Kg
12. James Downey - 104 Kg
13. Robbie Henshaw - 98 Kg
14. Darren Hudson - 99 Kg
15. Denis Hurley - 101 Kg
16. Rory Best - 107 Kg
17. Jack McGrath - 122 Kg
18. Martin Moore - 123 Kg
19. Tom Denton - 115 Kg
20. Rhys Ruddock - 111 Kg
21. Isaac Boss - 88 Kg
22. Craig Ronaldson - 92 Kg
23. Luke Marshall - 98 Kg

Imagine this team going up against All Blacks, Wales or South Africa. It is certainly not all about weight or else this team would be picked. Hardly any of these boys would be on the first team, bar Ross, Toner, Ferris, Murray and Bowe, and even two of these aren't starting due to injury, and maybe Toner is not the best option at lock. So it just proves that there are more important qualities than weight, although it does matter, but not as much as people are suggesting.

Just some you might have forgotten. Buckley (138kg) for Ross, Damien Browne (125kg) for Stevenson, Eamonn Sheridan (108kg) for Henshaw, Stewart Maguire (128kg) now in over Ross on the bench, Jordan Coghlan (108kg) in for Downey, Paul O'Donohue (92kg) for Boss, John Madigan (119kg) for Stevenson on the bench and Chris Farrell (104kg) into the 23 shirt.

Did not think I'd get so many players by myself, PO'D was the only one I "found" to be heavier.