2014 Six Nations: Ireland vs Wales (Round 2)

[Peat]

@Maverick it's not saying Brown is poor in air he's just not as good as Kearney and vice versa with Kearney regards open field runner. Player fit different game plans.

@Peat. In fairness POM has been that good but with regards Fez. Can he make it back? And if so will he ever reach the levels of before?

He hasn't for my money. He's been very good, he's answered a lot of outspoken critics but I haven't looked at him and thought 'World Class' like I do with Healy or SOB or Fez. Whether Ferris will get back at his previous levels though, I don't know, it's a bit of a hypothetical until proven otherwise.

 

[ror]

POM is getting lavish praise from the Irish press but here are couple of stats I did this morning re defense and attack for Blindside's..
Defensive contribution of no 6 so far in Six Nations. How many tackles does your six make for your country . Wales 12% Italy 10% Eng 9% Fra 8% Scot 8% And Irel 5%. So Welsh blindside is responsible for 12% of all welsh tackles whilst Ireland no6 makes 5 %.
Lets look at attack and metres gained for no6's. France 59m Eng 27m Italy 18m Wales 10m Scot 9m and Ireland no6 has made 5 Metres..
Interesting reading and looking at his other contributions he is 3rd for most penalties conceded and 4th for lineouts won.. I am not saying he had a bad game but the fact he forced a couple of penalties has made him look a lot better...

 

[munstermuffin]

@Peat I'd agree its hypothetical but until Ferris can get back then we have to forget him. I hope he can return but it a tight call. Regards Pom nobody has said he's world class but Schmidt has him in a role that he's doing superbly.

@ROR them stats aren't reflective. For example the Irish backrow seem to be doing different roles not in line with traditional sense. So it's not reflective. But according to official RBS stats.
Cian Healy is most tackles missed
Devin Toner has conceded most pens for Ire
Trimble most turnovers conceded

I wouldn't say that reflects truth like is Healy our worst tackler???
I don't think so by a long shot.

 

[siochain]

Stats rarely paint a full picture particularly in the back row as a 6 in different teams can have different roles. Last time I checked winning penalties was highly valuable to your team.

 

[ror]

@Peat I'd agree its hypothetical but until Ferris can get back then we have to forget him. I hope he can return but it a tight call. Regards Pom nobody has said he's world class but Schmidt has him in a role that he's doing superbly.

@ROR them stats aren't reflective. For example the Irish backrow seem to be doing different roles not in line with traditional sense. So it's not reflective. But according to official RBS stats.
Cian Healy is most tackles missed
Devin Toner has conceded most pens for Ire
Trimble most turnovers conceded

I wouldn't say that reflects truth like is Healy our worst tackler???
I don't think so by a long shot.

Hey look interpretation of stats can obviously vary, and I accept that, but if POM is bottom of Defense and Offense stats there something in it. Incidentally Both Healy and POM have missed 3 tackles so far but Healy has completed 1 more so that keeps POM at the bottom.
Wingers tend to turnover more ball given they can often be isolated so the Trimble stat does not surprise me..

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Stats of missed tackles for front rowers have to be taken seriously but with a pinch of salt - If a back-rower misses a tackle it is usually significant because it would often mean he let a player through him/fell off a tackle. If a prop like Healy misses one it could be because a quick winger ran right around him, but Healy touching him at arms length so by my understanding, such a scenario would count as a missed tackle. Technically it is, but I wouldn't really classify it as such.

 

[profitius]

POM is getting lavish praise from the Irish press but here are couple of stats I did this morning re defense and attack for Blindside's..
Defensive contribution of no 6 so far in Six Nations. How many tackles does your six make for your country . Wales 12% Italy 10% Eng 9% Fra 8% Scot 8% And Irel 5%. So Welsh blindside is responsible for 12% of all welsh tackles whilst Ireland no6 makes 5 %.
Lets look at attack and metres gained for no6's. France 59m Eng 27m Italy 18m Wales 10m Scot 9m and Ireland no6 has made 5 Metres..
Interesting reading and looking at his other contributions he is 3rd for most penalties conceded and 4th for lineouts won.. I am not saying he had a bad game but the fact he forced a couple of penalties has made him look a lot better...

The 2 missed tackles against Scotland were not bad tackles. In one he dived to catch Lamont around the ankles but missed ie Lamont was too far away. The other missed tackle was against Hogg and he is lightening quick.


I saw the 3m carried stat against Scotland too and its incorrect. He made 3m in a few individual carries. Go back and look at the match. His first carry in the first minute was about 3m.

 

[siochain]

@ror what stats are you using?

If you take the RBS player stats it could be interpreted that the welsh back row were better than the Irish back row which we know is totally wrong. Taulupe Faletau had the lowest tackle count on the day of the welsh back 3 but his carrying was immense so who was the best welsh BR on the day?

 

[ror]

The 6 has been a popular talkin point recently so I just got all the opta stats together for all the 6's POM tackle count and metres gained for the six nation is the lowest of all the 6's so take what you will from that. He has forced a couple of penalties though but if I was POM I wouldnt like reading the tackle stats, thats all. If he was perfect we wouldnt have anything to talk about but you can bet your your last euro Joe will be looking at his efforts and demanding more...

 

[munstermuffin]

The 6 has been a popular talkin point recently so I just got all the opta stats together for all the 6's POM tackle count and metres gained for the six nation is the lowest of all the 6's so take what you will from that. He has forced a couple of penalties though but if I was POM I wouldnt like reading the tackle stats, thats all. If he was perfect we wouldnt have anything to talk about but you can bet your your last euro Joe will be looking at his efforts and demanding more...

But what is his role? Because watching the game he's in at every collision. I think Schmidt is singing his praises because his role is being performed correctly. And regards the stats how is it comparing like for like? The roles of backrow have changed and they work more as a unit than individual tasks. A lot of tackles can be 2 man tackles also that aren't given to both. Schmidt said he's delighted with POM and that he was possibly best player on field 2weeks in a row. If that is a sign POM isn't doing his role then I'm confused. Does it mean POM is perfect? No but unless your Schmidt or Plumtree you don't know the roles these guys are asked to do. And if he isn't missing tackles then why'd he worry as he's doing his job and nobody will accuse him of hiding away.
To put it simply as was said today it shows how excellent Heaslip Henry and POM are going is that we aren't missing SOB yet after 2 games. That speaks volumes itself

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

To be honest O'Mahoney isn't really a traditional 6 and his stats reflect more those of a 7. Apart from the tackle count which is a bit worrying, although justified considering we haven't conceded a try in the tournament, I wouldn't expect much else. Why should he carry when Healy, O'Connell, Heaslip and even Ross to an extent are more effective and he clears out a huge number of attacking rucks, his work rate has been immense around the last two weeks and he's had two very good games, he's not the finished article yet and would want to add maybe one or two more things to his game to be a great player but he's doing his role in the team almost perfectly.

I've just written a positive paragraph about Peter O'Mahoney, I'm off to throw up!!

 

[munstermuffin]

To be honest O'Mahoney isn't really a traditional 6 and his stats reflect more those of a 7. Apart from the tackle count which is a bit worrying, although justified considering we haven't conceded a try in the tournament, I wouldn't expect much else. Why should he carry when Healy, O'Connell, Heaslip and even Ross to an extent are more effective and he clears out a huge number of attacking rucks, his work rate has been immense around the last two weeks and he's had two very good games, he's not the finished article yet and would want to add maybe one or two more things to his game to be a great player but he's doing his role in the team almost perfectly.

I've just written a positive paragraph about Peter O'Mahoney, I'm off to throw up!!

I think it reflects more on Schmidt though. He's identified his back rows pros and cons and has them playing a style that is suiting them. Like POM is getting plaudits but Heaslip is playing his best stuff in few years for Ireland and Henry is playing out of skin too. Schmidt isn't playing any in a "traditional way" but as a unit they're doing a job very effectively

 

[Peat]

Think cmac has hit it with saying POM's stats look more like a 7. Well, some 7s. I've been thinking its almost like POM and Henry have swapped roles. Of course, plenty of 7s do top tackle charts as well as their breakdown duties, But POM is shining at the breakdown and is doing a lot more tackling than he was.

MM - That's what I meant by hypothetical. Until he comes back, it's all a bit unknown. Still, snoop mentioned him, and I disagreed, so I posted all about it...

 

[munstermuffin]

Think cmac has hit it with saying POM's stats look more like a 7. Well, some 7s. I've been thinking its almost like POM and Henry have swapped roles. Of course, plenty of 7s do top tackle charts as well as their breakdown duties, But POM is shining at the breakdown and is doing a lot more tackling than he was.

MM - That's what I meant by hypothetical. Until he comes back, it's all a bit unknown. Still, snoop mentioned him, and I disagreed, so I posted all about it...

Well don't get me wrong if Ferris does get back to fitness it's great and if he's back to levels of before super again but the flip side is when he got injured competition was ok but now he'll have some battle to get a jersey back because he not only has POM but Ruddock, Murphy and TOD too and add in SOB and I believe Stander will be serious contender for 6 in 18months

 

[Peat]

Well don't get me wrong if Ferris does get back to fitness it's great and if he's back to levels of before super again but the flip side is when he got injured competition was ok but now he'll have some battle to get a jersey back because he not only has POM but Ruddock, Murphy and TOD too and add in SOB and I believe Stander will be serious contender for 6 in 18months

Competition's intensified but there's still no one equal to his best other than SOB who happily enough is mostly on the other side of the scrum these days. So, no, it'll be no more a battle than it ever is to produce your best form on a rugby pitch.

 

[ror]

What POM is doing at the rucks is competing byt spreading his legs like a ballerina and lying there.. Its very effective as it is impossible to shift. He has forced a number of penalties with this method whilst not really competing for the ball. If he has a great game v England Ill take my hat off to him, but i think he will be blown out of the water and out performed by Wood. I hope he can raise his defensive efforts in the tackle area... I wish him the best and he will be tested by a very good back row unit v Eng..

 

[munstermuffin]

If this is "ror" from Babblin Brook as was pointed out to me. It's said you hate POM regardless of form or anything so won't even bother arguing

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

If this is "ror" from Babblin Brook as was pointed out to me. It's said you hate POM regardless of form or anything so won't even bother arguing

Why be so confrontational and even post this? If you disagree with a point of view, argue it coherently rather than dismiss another person's opinion based on heresay. Would you be happy if somebody said "I hear you love POM regardless of form so I won't even bother arguing with you since your opinion doesn't matter"?

I have issues with Peter O'Mahony's discipline which I've pointed out in the past. He seems to be turning a corner which is great news.

 

[profitius]

If this is "ror" from Babblin Brook as was pointed out to me. It's said you hate POM regardless of form or anything so won't even bother arguing

Well, well, well. Nice bit of info there mm! Look what I found. Its a thread ***led "peter o'lazy" started by guess who.
http://forum.leinsterfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=22422

Ror its a bit sad that you join a site to attack a player.

 

[ror]

Not once did I attack him in my post here.. I highlighted an area of his game that is of a concern to me and never once attacked him personally or professionally. I have voiced an opinion posted some factual stats and even in my last post said "I wish him the best and he will be tested by a very good back row unit v Eng.. "
So please tell me where I attacked him?