2014 Six Nations: England vs Ireland (Round 3)

[lynam1104]

Why?

Sexton is a better tactical kicker than Farrell, Murray is miles better than Care, the Irish back three is better in the air than our back three, and they're better at dropping back to cover their guys - well - ok, what I mean is that when Farrell drops back he really contends well for the high ball.

Also, their maul is currently doing better than ours, which puts significant strains on our kicking game vs theirs.

I think kicking the leather off of it will work well for them.

As for the idea of us sticking 15-20 points on a team with a good defence.... I wish!

Don't mind him, hes only ever watched Ireland V Aus from last year.

 

[Groundhog]

I just really hope the Irish team doesn't get ahead of itself like all of our fans and media who are already talking about Grand Slams and the resurgence of Irish rugby after winning one game with what were always our two toughest fixtures ahead of us. We'll look like tools if we get a beating against England.

 

[Rumpi]

I just really hope the Irish team doesn't get ahead of itself like all of our fans and media who are already talking about Grand Slams and the resurgence of Irish rugby after winning one game with what were always our two toughest fixtures ahead of us. We'll look like tools if we get a beating against England.

Glad you said that. Christ the hyperbole is reaching fever pitch, it's embarrassing frankly.

 

[Amiga500]

Glad you said that. Christ the hyperbole is reaching fever pitch, it's embarrassing frankly.

Shhhh.... Sure when has Franky MyClient, Tremenjous Lenihan and Pashun Quinlan ever been wrong?

 

[St George]

I would like to think this England are a much better team than the one which won 6-12 in Dublin last year, and the one that won 30-9 in this same fixture two years back. But Ireland have a new coach who has a bit of pedigree and has really got them firing. Both these teams came close to NZ and as others have said, it's a close one to call, but i'm going with home advantage only.

My one fear is the appalling England bench. Maybe we are all numpties and Youngs, Goode & Barritt are doing ok and the Lineout jumpers cant catch.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

Didn't see much of England play so far, but what's wrong with Tom Youngs as a sub?
Highly doubt a repeat of Twickenham 2 years ago, average loose head at tight head + rain = suicide.

Im more confident in Schmidt than even the players that he'll implement the right game plan to win. Mike Brown has been playing very well, but as a whole their back 3 is very inexperienced and bombarding them with kick and chases might just work. We could be in a bit of trouble if they decide to run it back, but I'm pretty confident in our defense - conceding only 9 points. A return kick to touch for our line out would work even better as we'd most like win the kicking battles with Kearney and Sexton.
How are May and Nowell at kicking and under the high ball?

A year or 2 ago I'd never though I'd say this but we now have a seriously good replacement front row, could McGrath even be a better scrummager than Healy? That being said, Healy along with Best have been outstanding.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Nowell is a FB - and is very good in those areas.

May has played as a FB often enough - although I can't remember how he fared there - he runs pretty much everything he gets.

 

[Rumpi]

I would like to think this England are a much better team than the one which won 6-12 in Dublin last year, and the one that won 30-9 in this same fixture two years back. But Ireland have a new coach who has a bit of pedigree and has really got them firing. Both these teams came close to NZ and as others have said, it's a close one to call, but i'm going with home advantage only.

My one fear is the appalling England bench. Maybe we are all numpties and Youngs, Goode & Barritt are doing ok and the Lineout jumpers cant catch.

Our previous coach had a decent pedigree as well to be fair to him, in fact the gameplan in the welsh match, that schmidt is getting so much praise for, could very easily be mistaken for Kidney's Munster in their prime - with ROG pulling the strings where Sexton was last weekend (an effect of O'Gara's coaching Sexton at Racing Metro?).

I dont buy this we have 30 players stuff, as with any team but especially Ireland, what we really need is as many of our first choice 15 available as possible, with most of our best 15 fit, Ireland are a much stronger team, so to have both O'Connell and O'Driscoll available for most of the six nations makes a huge difference, i wonder will we miss Sean O'Brien in this one. i suspect we will.

I really like the look of the way England are going, played France off the pitch in Paris for long spells, beaten by the bounce of a couple of balls. Look to be trying to play a better brand of rugby with some real talent coming through. Just hoping our huge experience in key positions can give us the edge.

 

[Big Ewis]

I would like to think this England are a much better team than the one which won 6-12 in Dublin last year, and the one that won 30-9 in this same fixture two years back.

actually now that I think about those two editions of England, and this might not be agreed upon too much but, I think the 2012 edition England might actually have been better than the 2013 one, at very least within the 6N. They were in complete reconstruction but had a spark of youth and were surprisingly effective for such a young core of guys, their scrum was more impressive (Corbs was there for one...), they weren't nearly as sterile as England 2013 on attack, they resisted well against an all-conquering, heralded Wales squad and Tom Croft added quite a bit to that team. Their victories were much more impressive than 2013, and though they came close against Italy it was in Rome and not in Twickenham.

And yes, there's no doubt at all the 2014 6N England squad is quite considerably better than the past two years' editions. Their gameplan is really coming to full maturation, and plus the backs have contributed more this year.

 

[Amiga500]

Our previous coach had a decent pedigree as well to be fair to him

Deccie had one style of play... Stringer to Radge to the corner to superman pressurizing the lineout.

That style suited the ELVs at the time, but he failed to adapt when these went by the wayside.


Whether Schmidt will fall into the same inflexibility in the future is unknown, but his teams have shown different styles in the past, from sublime backline moves to territorial and massive defence forcing mistakes.

I dont buy this we have 30 players stuff

We don't have 30 players like POC/BOD.

But we do now have maybe 30 capable of playing at a good international standard now whereas in the past it was maybe ~20.

2nd XV (not starting on Sunday):
McGrath
Cronin
Moore
Tuohy
Ryan
Fez
SOB
Wilson
Reddan
Jackson
Zebo
L Marshall
Cave
Bowe
Henshaw

I suppose, when you start to look beyond that it can get pretty patchy in places.
J. Cronin/Kilcoyne
Strauss/Herring
Archer/Fitzpatrick
Henderson
Foley
Ruddock
Murphy
Coughlan
Marmion
Hanrahan
Gilroy
Olding/Downey/Wallace
???
J. Murphy
???

 

[Peat]

Your third choice unit should have Fitzgerald on one wing, Murphy at full-back and... eh, stick Olding to 13 and put Eamonn Sheridan at 12. Or maybe Madigan 10, Hanrahan 12, Fitzgerald 13, Olding 15. Saucy. You haven't used O'Donnell, McLaughlin or Diack either. Very clear that Ireland is on a huge up turn in personnel.

Good job England are experiencing the same sort of thing...

 

[munstermuffin]

To post 3 teams and well people will decide who's good enough:
Kearney Jones Keatley
Kearney Bowe Payne (In Nov)
BOD Henshaw McFadden
D'arcy Madigan Marshall (Just to mention Hurley has potential here too)
Trimble Earls Zebo
Sexton Jackson Hanrahan
Murray Marrion Reddan
Heaslip Copeland Coughlan
Henry SOB TOD Murphy
POM Ruddock
POC Toner Tuohy
Ryan McCarthy Henderson
Ross Moore Archer
Best Cronin Strauss
Healy Cronin McGrath Kilcoyne

Included there is guys with some injuries short term but that's a hell of a pool for Schmidt to use with others too for building toward RWC 15

 

[Rumpi]

Deccie had one style of play... Stringer to Radge to the corner to superman pressurizing the lineout.

That style suited the ELVs at the time, but he failed to adapt when these went by the wayside.


Whether Schmidt will fall into the same inflexibility in the future is unknown, but his teams have shown different styles in the past, from sublime backline moves to territorial and massive defence forcing mistakes.



We don't have 30 players like POC/BOD.

But we do now have maybe 30 capable of playing at a good international standard now whereas in the past it was maybe ~20.

2nd XV (not starting on Sunday):
McGrath
Cronin
Moore
Tuohy
Ryan
Fez
SOB
Wilson
Reddan
Jackson
Zebo
L Marshall
Cave
Bowe
Henshaw

I suppose, when you start to look beyond that it can get pretty patchy in places.
J. Cronin/Kilcoyne
Strauss/Herring
Archer/Fitzpatrick
Henderson
Foley
Ruddock
Murphy
Coughlan
Marmion
Hanrahan
Gilroy
Olding/Downey/Wallace
???
J. Murphy
???

We do have a slew of players who might prove to be international class but a lot of that list are unproven for me.

I know Trimble was good at the weekend but i honestly have my doubts about him as a truly international class winger. I'd add zebo to that list, looks promising, but a lot to prove yet. Gilroy the same.

Some of them will make it, some of them are over rated/hyped in my opinion.

 

[munstermuffin]

Just on Zebo. Great article today on Penney explaining Schmidts refusal to pick him. Schmidt hates guys being expressive (in terms of celebrating etc) and in trainings if a guy does it during a training game they run laps for remainder of session. He refs every game and any backchat or ill discipline they do laps. Penney was hoping he'd adapt to Zebo as both could really learn from each other. But regards Schmidts technique it sounds very military based but it definitely seems to be working

 

[Feicarsinn]

In Joe we trust.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Just on Zebo. Great article today on Penney explaining Schmidts refusal to pick him. Schmidt hates guys being expressive (in terms of celebrating etc) and in trainings if a guy does it during a training game they run laps for remainder of session. He refs every game and any backchat or ill discipline they do laps. Penney was hoping he'd adapt to Zebo as both could really learn from each other. But regards Schmidts technique it sounds very military based but it definitely seems to be working

Being a team that doesn't give away penalties makes you so much harder to beat. It should really be right at the core of any team mentality. It doesn't matter if you can do everything else brilliantly, if you constantly infringe you will lose.

 

[St George]

Being a team that doesn't give away penalties makes you so much harder to beat. It should really be right at the core of any team mentality. It doesn't matter if you can do everything else brilliantly, if you constantly infringe you will lose.

The initial period under Martin Johnson springs to mind. We were giving a hatfull of penalties, but also getting 2 sinbins a game. The refs were taking flak, but it was a bad period for Englands discipline which resulted in total lack of progress and development.


.......................................................................................................................................................................................................

Would like to think Lanky is actually thinking of changing the bench:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ru...y-halves-chance-shine-place-Owen-Farrell.html

Stuart Lancaster has very little to agonise over when it comes to his next England selection, so has instead been examining awkward World Cup squad choices.
For Ireland at Twickenham on Saturday week, the England starting XV will be unchanged, as Lancaster admitted: 'The (selection) decisions are probably more to do with the bench than the starting XV.'



Although i am concerned he may go the way alluded to and choose to wait until the Summer.

 

[munstermuffin]

Being a team that doesn't give away penalties makes you so much harder to beat. It should really be right at the core of any team mentality. It doesn't matter if you can do everything else brilliantly, if you constantly infringe you will lose.

Agreed just to say the Zebo thing and Joes style though are 2 seperate points I'm making. But yea the way he gets them disciplined is very good and in a way cut throat

 

[profitius]

We do have a slew of players who might prove to be international class but a lot of that list are unproven for me.

I know Trimble was good at the weekend but i honestly have my doubts about him as a truly international class winger. I'd add zebo to that list, looks promising, but a lot to prove yet. Gilroy the same.

Some of them will make it, some of them are over rated/hyped in my opinion.

Indeed. I do think however That there are some high quality coming through but the world cup might be a year too soon for some. Having said that I expect players like Olding, Hanrahan, Marmion and Henshaw to make the squad next year along with Payne. I rate Luke Marshall but 2 years down the line when D'Arcy is gone he'll have some serious competition.

 

[lynam1104]

Indeed. I do think however That there are some high quality coming through but the world cup might be a year too soon for some. Having said that I expect players like Olding, Hanrahan, Marmion and Henshaw to make the squad next year along with Payne. I rate Luke Marshall but 2 years down the line when D'Arcy is gone he'll have some serious competition.

12 Olding 13 Henshaw could be a serious center partnership if the boys keep developing.

Payne is best at fullback and I think he should be left to compete with Kearney there, I was hoping he would be able to step in for BOD but after seeing him there for Ulster I think its fair to say he preforms phenomenally better at 15.