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2014 QBE Internationals [EOYT] England

Does this mean Haskell at 8, or Morgan at 8 with Haskell on the bench? Or even Haskell-Robshaw-Morgan with Wood on the bench? I hope it's the last one because THAT'S a real back row.

As for the centres, I suspect Farrell-Barritt. Like many, not keen. I'd like to see Twelvetrees at inside because, despite his issues in an England shirt he is in paper almost the perfect twelve - take-it-up big lad; distributor; kicker; and decent defender
 
10. Twelvetrees
12. Farrell



Twelvetrees shouldn't be there over Slade. I know 36 is the more experienced guy, so they probably think it's worth sticking with him, but Slade's form this season has been better than 36's has in as long as I can remember.
 
Except this isn't 2nd choice city.

So you think this is the first choice midfield?

Exactly. Only three changes have been made. One to Vunipola, who has looked woefully out of form and second best to Morgan. One to Care, who has looked woefully out of form (he was directly responsible for conceding two tries on the weekend). And one to Eastmond, which I can't comprehend. Eastmond would be one of the last players I'd rest, with the need to cement him in the centres. Lancaster's clearly not resting players for this match... which means he actually thinks Eastmond deserves the chop and that Farrell-Barritt needs looking at.

Eastmond has concussion and is following the RTP procedures. How is that being dropped?

And the likeliest scenario at the start of all of this was that the midfield that played against NZ & Sa would rest this week and Ford would come in and a couple of others... it was never going to be a full strength side.

Seriously it's becoming very clear that even if Lancaster fielded your own personal 15 you'd still find a way to b*tch and moan about someone being left out of the lineup under some nefarious reason.
 
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Is the furore over Farrell at 12 still only because he was training there with Ford at 10, or has there been any more indication that Farrell will start there? It's still possible that Farrell will drop down to the bench, and cover 10/12 from the bench, in which case it would make sense for Farrell to run some drills with Ford?
 
Is the furore over Farrell at 12 still only because he was training there with Ford at 10, or has there been any more indication that Farrell will start there? It's still possible that Farrell will drop down to the bench, and cover 10/12 from the bench, in which case it would make sense for Farrell to run some drills with Ford?

Lancaster has said all along it was something they were considering, and was touted last week when Eastmond was doubtful and again at the start of this week on most news sources.

It is possible Farrell will drop down for this match, that was always the likeliest scenario leading into these AI's, it's also possible Farrell was just training there as Eastmond was injured, and 36 hand't arrived yet.
 
Jeeze, that makes it so blindingly obvious he should have switched with Brown, he had acres of space as both Saffa's had committed to Farrell/weren't interested in Brown's line.
 
Jeeze, that makes it so blindingly obvious he should have switched with Brown, he had acres of space as both Saffa's had committed to Farrell/weren't interested in Brown's line.

Thats what I was just thinking - you need the zoomed out angle to see it which is probably why we hadn't picked up on it.Also points out how much time on the ball Farrell had.
 
Watch when he arrows Serfontein, has sat down. He's assuming the tackle position as he has bought the dummy and is going for Brown, he then realises and changes direction and heads off after Farrell. He would probably have tackled Brown and we'd have been working under our posts.

He can't kick from the ball being on the ground as his three step kicking action would have put him under pressure, so he waits to pull the chasers onto him so he can then set off. I still really disagree about Farrell kicking on the run at full pelt that is a f*cker of a kick to pull off, and you can clearly see a wall of green heading down - to do an effective kick would have been to slow down and he would have been tackled.

Go to 00:57 seconds and look at Watson and the distance he is from Farrell - ideally Farrell would thrown a long pass to him there, and he would clear the lines. But Watson is facing the wrong way as he hasn't made it back, and it's soaking wet so it's a never on pass. The only point he can make that pass is at 1:00 - 1:02 and on a wet day i can understand he doesn't fancy it.

So that leaves one option carry until contact, or hope Watson runs a cut back to hold the defence like Brown does and then take the kick, at 1:04 Farrell dummies the switch trying to get Watson to come but he doesn't move from his line and waits till it's too late.

As the man coming forward it will have been his call to take the ball - as it will have been Browns to not take the ball.

Like i said it's easy to blame Farrell, but there is a load of things that go wrong there and he is helped not one little bit by his team mates.
 
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GN10 there is NO WAY that any of the Saffers there could have caught Brown if the switch was made. You are trying to claim that a Saffer from a standing start could accelerate sideways faster than Brown could accelerate forwards when he already has some speed... Not happening. Even from a standing start Brown would easily have burnt him off. Just accept that Farrell is at fault for once.
 
GN10 there is NO WAY that any of the Saffers there could have caught Brown if the switch was made. You are trying to claim that a Saffer from a standing start could accelerate sideways faster than Brown could accelerate forwards when he already has some speed... Not happening. Even from a standing start Brown would easily have burnt him off. Just accept that Farrell is at fault for once.

*Sigh*

what's the point in talking to you? We're talking about people reacting in micro seconds here and you're watching a wide angle view from miles back and in slow mo 4 days after the event and saying he could have done this and that.

When he freezes the video, Serfrontein is on his heels it's really not that far for him to lean over and tackle Brown low. He is looking to go for Brown on the tackle - regardless of whether he would or wouldn't it's irrelevant because it was enough to change the decision.

If you can't see that's what Serfontein is shaping to do then i don't' know what to say you must be blind or never played the game.

This is getting really really tiring. I get it you don't like Farrell and want Ford in the team, you clearly can't look at it or the dynamics of the situation objectively and as a result it's impossible to discuss these things without getting called out as favouring Farrell or being a Ford hater.
 
I must be blind despite you being the only one defending Farrell? I say he made a mistake, others say he made a mistake, the guy making the video says he made a mistake. You alone preach he hasn't (and every single time there is an excuse) and call me the blind one? It's funny how you say I can't say Brown would have got past whilst you are claiming he would certainly have been tackled.

It's not a case of I don't like Farrell, I was defending him last 6N and said he was improving but his recent form has been crap and only you seem determined to overlook that. You frequently argue against not using another Flyhalf and playing Farrell because he is our best and then when he has a crap performance you are refusing to even recognise it and maintain it was the fault of everyone else on the field. Literally you have blamed the forwards, Watson, Care and Eastmond for Farrells failures.
 
I must be blind despite you being the only one defending Farrell? I say he made a mistake, others say he made a mistake, the guy making the video says he made a mistake. You alone preach he hasn't (and every single time there is an excuse) and call me the blind one? It's funny how you say I can't say Brown would have got past whilst you are claiming he would certainly have been tackled.

I haven't said he will tackle Brown, i said it's probable. How is that now certainly in your mind?

I clearly say he assumes the tackle position as if to tackle Brown and that effects the decision to not switch and that the call probably comes from Brown as the man making the switch. I'm not saying Brown can't get past i said it's unlikely, which i consider it to be, and i think that affects the decision at the time.

Somethings can't be changed by interpretation, like the body position Serfontein adopts etc... and how difficult it is to kick a ball running full pelt, or how wet the ball and pitch were, and they have to be taken into account when saying this and that should have happened.

Anslysis is subjective people see didfferent things that doesn't amke them rigth ro wrong, it just means they see it differently, that's what i'm doing here. Right or wrong I am allowed to disagree with the fact it's a mistake or not, or who's mistake it is or isn't and that it is open to personal interpretation without copping a ton of abuse from others.

It's not a case of I don't like Farrell, I was defending him last 6N and said he was improving but his recent form has been crap and only you seem determined to overlook that. You frequently argue against not using another Flyhalf and playing Farrell because he is our best and then when he has a crap performance you are refusing to even recognise it and maintain it was the fault of everyone else on the field. Literally you have blamed the forwards, Watson, Care and Eastmond for Farrells failures.

For about the millionth time I haven't argued against using another fly half, I have said all along Ford should be playing. Before the squads were even announced i said Ford was the form 10 and Farrell was off form and shouldn't be starting.

I just don't' agree that all the issues many are flagging up around his SA performance are entirely down to him or even there - things like the attack are mainly collective failures, but if you want to flag up individuals because that's what it obviously must be to you then let's also look at the individuals you are all lauding - such as Eastmond - who really didn't have a special game either.

Rugby probably more than any other ball sport is a collective sport, so most errors or failings are collective issues, so when analysing why something goes wrong or why someone does something you have to look at the bigger picture of what's affecting that decision.

Question: Your Fly half who has been playing flat starts to sit deep, why is that?

So look at what happens, ok he's playing flat off front football and set pieces so it's not a confidence thing, so what's the problem at those phase where he drops deep?

Question: Is he coming to the line and looking for runners, yes? ok, so why are the defenders getting off the line early enough to shut his options down? Oh, the ball is slow/static.

And these are issues that need to be fixed for whomever plays 10, not just Farrell, and that's what i'm saying.

This conversation has gone on way too long, and been made way too personal by yourself and Henry, I'm tired of saying the same thing over and over again only for you both to tell me what I'm thinking. It's frustrating and I'm bored with the fact you're clearly unwilling to discuss the events so what's the point?

Lets just leave it there.
 
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Well you have made up your mind regarding Farrell, I don't think he should even have been in the team and that's not just him, I think anyone coming back from injury should be given game time at a lower level first to get back into their stride. We rushed 12trees back and he was bad, rushed Corbs back and he got injured again and now we have rushed Farrell back and he is underperforming. Farrell is simply not up to scratch at 10 and I can't see how playing at 12, a position he isn't used to, will result in a better performance. He's weak in all aspects of his game because he hasn't been able to get back up to speed after injury.

As for the SA game, yeah you don't think ANY of the issues are Farrell's fault beyond ones where it is completely impossible to blame someone else (his crap kicks) and even then you go "well Ford did that too". Can you point to me an example where you genuinely just said Farrell did **** up and there isn't an excuse, blaming another player or essentially doing tu quoque?
 
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Well you have made up your mind regarding Farrell, I don't think he should even have been in the team and that's not just him, I think anyone coming back from injury should be given game time at a lower level first to get back into their stride. We rushed 12trees back and he was bad, rushed Corbs back and he got injured again and now we have rushed Farrell back and he is underperforming. Farrell is simply not up to scratch at 10 and I can't see how playing at 12, a position he isn't used to, will result in a better performance. He's weak in all aspects of his game because he hasn't been able to get back up to speed after injury.

As for the SA game, yeah you don't think ANY of the issues are Farrell's fault beyond ones where it is completely impossible to blame someone else (his crap kicks) and even then you go "well Ford did that too". Can you point to me an example where you genuinely just said Farrell did **** up and there isn't an excuse, blaming another player or essentially doing tu quoque?

My first post said Farrell's decision making went bad around the 45-50 min mark and made mistakes as i don't think he is fit enough to play a full game.

And you guys are the ones bringing up the error in his kicking game, and saying ford was better all around - so of course i'm going to point out ford made the exact same mistakes, and struggled to get going behind a pack that had no dominance.

As i've said repeatedly if people can give me some examples of him making mistakes that everyone says he did and I'll pull them out and we can look at them on the video to see what is going on, or you can just continue to shout wildly with zero proof behind your observations. I even posted analysis that contradicted my own observations just so we could discuss it, but not a single person has contributed anything other than anecdotal evidence based on a game played 5 days ago.
 
People HAVE given you examples, you are just dismissing every single one. It's like a Creationist going "well if only you would give me evidence for Evolution..." It gets to a situation where you bang your head against the wall because they flatout refuse to accept anything put infront of them.
 
People HAVE given you examples,

Such as? People have said he put a kick out on the full and sliced an up and under, or everyone is hedging their bets on the Watson incident which i have explained clearly why i don't agree it's all on Farrell.

People have said he stifled our attack i'd like to see those examples. Because as i've said running through the game he actually doesn't do much wrong with what he's given.

You are claiming he made error after error all game, i'm saying he made a few bad decisions before he was subbed off injured.

Now if you have examples of these errors please point them out so we can look at them otherwise just turn it in..

you are just dismissing every single one. It's like a Creationist going "well if only you would give me evidence for Evolution..." It gets to a situation where you bang your head against the wall because they flatout refuse to accept anything put infront of them.

why is it so important i agree with you about Farrell that you have to resort to petty insults because i won't?

You cannot give me examples of any of the things you claim, that i haven't already agreed with bar the watson incident, but you continue to deliberately misrepresent what i have said in this thread to suit your need to argue and continue to tell me i don't see what everyone else is seeing even though i have gone through the game twice and can pretty much give you a play by play of Farrells game and where the errors occurred and didn't occur.
 
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