2014 QBE Internationals [EOYT] England

[Ragey Erasmus]

So many statistics...

 

[ianw16]

Those are the players like to be selected. Unlike NZ we don't have many players who have unquestionably nailed their position. There are still big question marks about a number of players.

Fair enough, but does that indicate a huge amount of talent from whom it is very difficult to make a choice, or a bunch of fairly average players, none of whom have really put their hands up at international level? As I say, it is getting a bit close to the action now, and a lot of players have had a chance. The fact that they are still unsure of selection would indicate to me that none of them are up to much at the very highest level.
I'm not trying to stir by the way (well, only a little bit!)

 

[goodNumber10]

Anyone else find it funny that were justifying players of instinct be selected on stats

 

[ratsapprentice]

Fair enough, but does that indicate a huge amount of talent from whom it is very difficult to make a choice, or a bunch of fairly average players, none of whom have really put their hands up at international level? As I say, it is getting a bit close to the action now, and a lot of players have had a chance. The fact that they are still unsure of selection would indicate to me that none of them are up to much at the very highest level.
I'm not trying to stir by the way (well, only a little bit!)

Numerous reasons. On the wing we've had a lot of injuries - Ashton was finally set to be dropped, but Wade and Yarde both succumbed to injury so their debuts were postponed.
We then had May and Nowell during the 6N. There were probably some question marks over May, but by and large both did enough to secure their positions. Nowell then missed the NZ tour due to injury.
Yarde took his place and did alright. It's a similar story in a fair few other positions too. Ultimately it comes down to injuries and wildly fluctuating form.

Anyone else find it funny that were justifying players of instinct be selected on stats

Who's doing that?

 

[goodNumber10]

Everyone in this thread.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Example?

 

[goodNumber10]

Pretty much everyone who shouts for cipriani, ford, eastmond et al...

They are players we like because they play the game on instinct, are not robotic and are exciting to watch....

 

[Big Ewis]

I find those stats on Wood very interesting:
1. He doesn't carry much, nor for many meters
2. He doesn't offer much in the breakdown (are those breakdown stats right though? I'm surprised by how few turnovers are being won by backrowers)
3. He doesn't seem to make that many tackles, and has a relatively bad tackle completion rate compared to the rest

Is he like, amazing at clearing out or something? What is impressive about Wood?

being so focused on stats is never a good thing. What of all the intangibles ? Rugby and sports in general aren't just stats and math, a player isn't just measured by numbers...Tom Wood has loads of int'l experience, but more importantly with a beard bears a striking resemblance to Ringo Starr. How many other flankers in England can say that atm ? Stats, stats, stats...tisk, tisk. A shame, what a narrow scope.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Pretty much everyone who shouts for cipriani, ford, eastmond et al...

They are players we like because they play the game on instinct, are not robotic and are exciting to watch....

And you can quantify that by analysing what "exciting" players do statistically. It's actually fairly easy to do.
Unlike defensive ability and kicking ability, for example - which are far harder to quantify, although stats can help to demonstrate certain aspects of defense e.g. workrate.

Eastmond's injury may keep him from playing this weekend, but he's good to go for England.

 

[goodNumber10]

And you can quantify that by analysing what "exciting" players do statistically. It's actually fairly easy to do.
Unlike defensive ability and kicking ability, for example - which are far harder to quantify, although stats can help to demonstrate certain aspects of defense e.g. workrate.

I'm not questioning that mate I'm just making an observation, I'm really the last guy you need to convince of the worth of statistical analysis.

 

[ratsapprentice]

 

[Wendigo7]

Anyone else find it funny that were justifying players of instinct be selected on stats

Just backs up the original thought doesn't it?

You'd think in theory robotic players would be the best point scorers...

 

[Wendigo7]

And you can quantify that by analysing what "exciting" players do statistically. It's actually fairly easy to do.
Unlike defensive ability and kicking ability, for example - which are far harder to quantify, although stats can help to demonstrate certain aspects of defense e.g. workrate.

Eastmond's injury may keep him from playing this weekend, but he's good to go for England.

Ford looks standout in those basic stats. That's all they are though.

Yeandle shows up very well in general as well. Slade too.

 

[goodNumber10]

All i would say is that Stats only get you so far, there are things that can't be taught, abilities, and at some point a coach has to abandon the stats and go with what he instinctively thinks the best option is - obviously that's a calculated opinion formed somewhat by the stats but even so there's a point where the coach just has to leap.

 

[Patchey]

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/oct/21/england-bath-semesa-rokoduguni-new-zealand?CMP=twt_gu

Apparently Roko will be called up and Slade will be involved as cover for Eastmond.

Farrel, Ford and Myler are to be the fly-halves...

 

[TRF_Olyy]

That's Cipriani leaving Sale, then

 

[Patchey]

You think?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

You think?

Almost certain. He wants to play for England, and if Lancaster is going to ignore him, regardless of form, at Sale then he'll leave - Wasps or Quins would be my bet.

Dimes said his contract negotiations start in November, so I think if nothings heard by Christmas then it's all but confirmed - it's what happened with Miller/Gaskell.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Be interesting to see what happens. Will his loyalty to Cockroaches override his desire to live in London again?

 

[Tony Manx]

Almost certain. He wants to play for England, and if Lancaster is going to ignore him, regardless of form, at Sale then he'll leave - Wasps or Quins would be my bet.

Dimes said his contract negotiations start in November, so I think if nothings heard by Christmas then it's all but confirmed - it's what happened with Miller/Gaskell.

I would agree Olyy and Quins have to be favorites as a they play in London and b they need a young and good, dependable 10 as Nick is on the slippery and Botica is unreliable!