[2014 Mid-Year Tests] South Africa

[Draggs]

He has had his good games and bad games just like any other player.

And yes, it's astonishing that we haven't found a proper replacement in 5 years, or at least an understudy. But all of a sudden we have a lot of good fly halves, the only problem is that they are so fragile, Lambie gets injured if someone just winks at him (pussy!), Johan Goosen is just skin, bone and poephol alone...

With that hair, people always wink at him... Ladies...

 

[goodNumber10]

Think JDV being out is a blessing in disguise for the bokkes.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Think JDV being out is a blessing in disguise for the bokkes.

Yes, because they get too try out some untested guys. No, because he was bloody amazing in the rugby championship. I would go for a Boshoff-Steyn-De Allende from the limited time I have seen of them

 

[Big Ewis]

Think JDV being out is a blessing in disguise for the bokkes.

AND for the viewers. No full-length 80-minute acting performance with the fakest smiles you've ever seen and yapping to the ref like they're high school buds. I can't stand his fake 'good guy' persona...see right through it.

 

[ratsapprentice]

AND for the viewers. No full-length 80-minute acting performance with the fakest smiles you've ever seen and yapping to the ref like they're high school buds. I can't stand his fake 'good guy' persona...see right through it.

I think that's a little harsh... but I know exactly what you mean.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Think JDV being out is a blessing in disguise for the bokkes.

He's our Captain! It's a problem, because the rest of the guys are very inexperienced and we will need a cool calm head in charge.

His persona with the referees are like he is with everyone else. Ewis, have you ever watched a press conference of him or when he's on a magazine show on tv?? He's not a fake kind of person. And I don't see a problem in the manner in which he talks to refs. Rather have a good open relationship with them than an angry closed-off one. It will never be of an advantage to the team if the ref is on your bad side...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I've met JdV a couple of times and think he is exactly the guy that comes across on the tv. Not that I think he is a saint but he is intelligent and at least reserved and polite if possibly not entirely Ghandi-like-humble.

That said I agree his being unavaiable can be a blessing in disguise for us. He was brilliant last year but I think some time out will do him good and we could use this time to give our back up some 'leadership training' as well as give either Serfontein or De Allende (or both) some time (extra time in the case of Serfontein of course) in a Bok jersey. Who is 2nd in command though? Strauss or Bismarck seem the likely candidates. Flouw could work but I think it'd be best to keep the captaincy 'local'. Schalk Burger has been in very good form coming back from injury but is not assured his position especially looking ahead and Matfield should not be considered a starter as much as a background figure IMO. Flip van der Merwe? Surely not. But those are the options. Our props, Eben, Alberts and Vermeulen are meatheads. I love them and they are good at what they do but LOL, I just can't see them leading. Our backs are all children with the exception of FdP with JdV out.

So back to that no. 12 jersey. We know HM worships caps so Frans Steyn is a definate at 12 with JdV out (I even think JdV would've been shifted to 13 to accommodate Steyn at 12). Probably both Goosen and Boshoff will get time at 10 which is why I am ashamed to say I am kinda glad Lambie is unavailable (not for the player's sake of course) and Morne is in France. Habana off as well means we will see some new faces (assuming these players aren;t being brought in from France). 9 is FdP and Hougaard who I have to admit has been going better every game and seems to be benefitting from playing exclusively (mostly) at 9. So I am happy with experience at 9 and 12 with JPP at 14 while Goosen and Le Roux get chances to cement their places assuming Le Roux plays at 15 (**** the Cheetahs for playing him on the wing!!!). Could we end up seeing one of Taute, Mvovo or F Steyn at the back?

So that leaves the 11 and 13 jerseys open. I'd probably lose my **** if Basson plays though on our fields and with our game plan as is he is not a bad choice as such but it would be pointless looking ahead IMO. On the wing the options are then Mvovo, Sithole, De Allende, Engelbrecht as I see it. At 13 Engelbrecht, JdV and Taute have been the men to wear the jersey but JdV is injured, Taute has been playing (the little he has been playing) at 15 and Engelbrecht has failed to impress (at all IMO). Engelbrecht will probably be picked and might benefit from playing in SA but he is not the right guy looking ahead IMO; one can see he is a converted winger as he looks to finish rather than help set up and is not well positioned in either attack or- critically- defense. The other options are De Jongh, Jordaan (not selected), Sithole or shifting De Allende (though he has only played at 12 and on the wing he seems capable of moving without looking out of place).

Well, I guess what I am saying is I am ****ed if I know what our backline will look like. That said it is looking much better every year. Remember the likes of Januarie, Olivier, good old merely Kirchner and out of form Habana, JdV and M Steyn with fat and bored F Steyn at 15? That wasn't so long ago and these guys were ASSURED their spots. Just happy Pienaar is not in the picture and the latest name to be added to the list above (again assuming HM isn't looking North).

Happy for Lewies; should have got in ahead of De Jager in the first place though all fit neither would make it.

 

[Gena_ZA]

Would play Victor as captain for the incoming tours, with Fourie du Preez as vice captain
Glad Jean de Villiers gets an extended rest as the incoming teams will probably be under strengthened again and no match for the Boks
This should be seen as a preparation for the 4 Nations only

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

But Bismarck was vise captain under JdV. What kind of message is it to him to not bump him up to captain with JdV gone. TBF Bismarck is captaining the Sharks rather well and they are sitting pretty at the top of the SR table and one has to give him some measure of credit for that. Also, he is probably the surest starter in the team along with Mtawarira and Etzebeth even with Strauss around.

That said I have a lot of time for Matfield as a captain but feel he isn't in the squad as a 'full member' (if that makes any sense) and a sure starter. He should've been captaining SA up to 2011 with John Smit behind Bismarck post 2007 but that is history. Here, now, Matfield just does not deserve to be in the XV if everyone were fit.

 

[Gena_ZA]

Matfield is the best 5 around, no use mentioning unfit players
Bismark has performed okayish the last two games but nowhere the player he was last year, due to fact he has to keep his natural aggression back by being captain.
Based on this and the experienced Matfield has he is the best captain around, or Schalk Burger, Fourie du Preez before Bismark du Plessis - in my view

But it is only till Jean is fit again so not too worried who he selects
http://www.rugby365.com/article/60245-bok-captaincy-just-an-interim-job

 

[TRF_heineken]

But Bismarck was vise captain under JdV. What kind of message is it to him to not bump him up to captain with JdV gone. TBF Bismarck is captaining the Sharks rather well and they are sitting pretty at the top of the SR table and one has to give him some measure of credit for that. Also, he is probably the surest starter in the team along with Mtawarira and Etzebeth even with Strauss around.

That said I have a lot of time for Matfield as a captain but feel he isn't in the squad as a 'full member' (if that makes any sense) and a sure starter. He should've been captaining SA up to 2011 with John Smit behind Bismarck post 2007 but that is history. Here, now, Matfield just does not deserve to be in the XV if everyone were fit.

In all fairness, captaining a SR team and captaining your country's team are 2 very different scenario's.

I think Vic is the front runner as he has already been the captain for the bokke. Bismarck was vice-captain last year, but then again, Vic didn't play last year.

HM has said that there are potentially 8 guys contending for this job, even though it's a stop-gap role ATM.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I can't agree. I am not saying Matfield is not the best captain avaiable purely for the sake of the captaincy and he might even be the best lock option avaiable now but what I am saying is that we would gain absolutely nothing from selecting him to start these 4 matches both as a player and captain. Will he really be the best lock option come 2015? I mean lets say he is avaiable then and in good form; even then why not give his 'old' body as much rest as possible? We know what we have in him but not what we have beyond him, Etzebeth and vd Merwe and not what we have in our other captaincy options. Now is the perfect low risk time to give others a chance to step up.


http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_9327543,00.html

Also as per the link above, Strauss is out of the picture up until Scotland because of that lazy tip tackle against the Stormers. Not that it should be a problem mind you but it might have been nice to rotate him and Bismarck to manage game time (though TBH that should be done at SR level).

 

[Gena_ZA]

If he chooses Bissie its all good, Matfield all good - it is just interim so not going to get an migraine about it

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Good, so we're settled then

 

[Gena_ZA]

See Callie Visagie is called up for cover at hooker

 

[TRF_heineken]

I can't agree. I am not saying Matfield is not the best captain avaiable purely for the sake of the captaincy and he might even be the best lock option avaiable now but what I am saying is that we would gain absolutely nothing from selecting him to start these 4 matches both as a player and captain. Will he really be the best lock option come 2015? I mean lets say he is avaiable then and in good form; even then why not give his 'old' body as much rest as possible? We know what we have in him but not what we have beyond him, Etzebeth and vd Merwe and not what we have in our other captaincy options. Now is the perfect low risk time to give others a chance to step up.


http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_9327543,00.html

Also as per the link above, Strauss is out of the picture up until Scotland because of that lazy tip tackle against the Stormers. Not that it should be a problem mind you but it might have been nice to rotate him and Bismarck to manage game time (though TBH that should be done at SR level).

I think you are missing my point. This captain issue is just for the incoming tour, with JDV being unavailable.

I agree that we shouldn't look at Vic being captain in the long haul. In fact I don't see him being captain in the place of JDV. JDV is a better captain IMHO than Vic.

on the long term my choice would be Francois Louw. He shows that same type of presence that John Smit had to me when I watch the Boks.

If I had to make an order for Captains for the World Cup next year it would look like this:

Francois Louw
JDV
Bismarck
Vic
Adriaan Strauss
Fourie Du Preez
Flip v/d Merwe

 

[Gena_ZA]

F Louw prefers to play outside of SA therefore I do not favor him as Bok captain, great player though
Maybe vice captain, will include F du Preez on equal terms

 

[Draggs]

Sounds like Mtembu has some sort of involvement with the training squad, wonder if Schalk is having issues with his injuries.
Also Frans Steyn sat out of some of the training, perhaps his knee is still causing issues.

 

[SomeOke]

Sounds like Mtembu has some sort of involvement with the training squad, wonder if Schalk is having issues with his injuries.
Also Frans Steyn sat out of some of the training, perhaps his knee is still causing issues.

Really sucks for the guy but could open the game up a bit, without Steyn HM will probably be forced to play the Stormers pairing from the Cheetahs game, de Allende and de Jong, would not upset me if I'm honest.

 

[Draggs]

I am not sold on de Allende at inside centre. He has looked good further out, but not my ideal 12. I'd go with a back three of de Allende, Mvovo, and le Roux. That is all fit, though... I think we could see what you suggested, although one must consider Sithole as a possibility. That being said, Serfontein-Englebrecht might be HMs ideal pairing, both having solid Bok experience by now.