[2014 Mid-Year Tests] South Africa

[SomeOke]

Really sucks for the guy but could open the game up a bit, without Steyn HM will probably be forced to play the Stormers pairing from the Cheetahs game, de Allende and de Jong, would not upset me if I'm honest.

Probably looking at this through Stormers vision but I have to disagree with you, I feel he has the skillset of an inside with a good offloading game and good vision. He's the real deal, you're right about the Bulls pairing though, didn't think of them to be honest but you're probably right about them being the replacements. Fair enough considering they played last year but I don't think they have the x-factor of the Stormers centres.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I am not sold on de Allende at inside centre. He has looked good further out, but not my ideal 12. I'd go with a back three of de Allende, Mvovo, and le Roux. That is all fit, though... I think we could see what you suggested, although one must consider Sithole as a possibility. That being said, Serfontein-Englebrecht might be HMs ideal pairing, both having solid Bok experience by now.

I think Serfontein will have the inside lane, he has been really solid for the Bulls this year, and he only missed 30 minutes of the total playing time the Bulls have been on the pitch.

He was also the MOTM last weekend against the Brumbies.

For me it's a toss up between Serfontein and De Allende, they have both been very impressive. But De Allende for me will fit better at 13 for the Boks, he's not known for his distribution skills...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I read on planetrugby.com that HM stated he might consider 12 Serfontein, 13 De Allende after having his first session with De Allende. TBH Serfontein has looked good and is getting better with regular starts in SR at 12 and De Allende though solid at 12 has all but flourished further out though he does have the skills to be a great 12 IMO. Both players coming of Man of the Match performances so the form is there if not the experience. Exciting.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I read on planetrugby.com that HM stated he might consider 12 Serfontein, 13 De Allende after having his first session with De Allende. TBH Serfontein has looked good and is getting better with regular starts in SR at 12 and De Allende though solid at 12 has all but flourished further out though he does have the skills to be a great 12 IMO. Both players coming of Man of the Match performances so the form is there if not the experience. Exciting.

Geez! I feel sorry for the opposition backline that has to tackle those 2 in midfield!

With that said, I have no problem with the plan of having them both in the centres. JJ has been ultra-quiet in the Bulls games, so maybe he needs a good kick up the backside to spur him on again. He could also move to the wings if HM feels that the other guys or not defensively up to the task.

I guess we'll have a clearer picture by Saturday night after the coastal derby. I think that's when HM will announce his squad for the incoming tests...

 

[TheSaffycen]

I'd go with a back three of de Allende, Mvovo, and le Roux. That is all fit, though... I think we could see what you suggested, although one must consider Sithole as a possibility

I think it was De Allende, have seen all these new guys and I keep confusing players for other players, but when he played against the Bulls he was soundly demolished by Basson in the air. I could definitely see Wales bombing him with high balls and have North running him down constantly, could be a difficult time for a debutant.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I think it was De Allende, have seen all these new guys and I keep confusing players for other players, but when he played against the Bulls he was soundly demolished by Basson in the air. I could definitely see Wales bombing him with high balls and have North running him down constantly, could be a difficult time for a debutant.

Can't say I remember that but the one thing Basson brings to the table is a brilliant chasing and aerial game so I wouldn't be surprised. That said I do trust De Allende's hands and temperament both but that is IF he gets selected and IF he ends up on the wing. I hate the wait though.

Hein, I agree Engelbrecht has been a bit quiet. Maybe like you said getting dropped would add fuel for him. Maybe all it is is that he looks better in green outside of someone like JdV than outside of Serfontein for the Bulls. All I know is it's good to have options for once. Hell, even De Jongh has been in good nick and I wouldn't complain if he played at 13 and so too Sithole. Even Mapoe and Hendricks have had some good games in the centers but that is digging too deep IMO and I don't trust the Lions and Cheetahs backs in a Bok jersey simply because you can't compare the type of rugby being played. That is where we need to align ourselves to playing one type of rugby like the NZ frnachises do. Sure some of the teams have different strengths and some are just more balanced than others but inherently they attempts to play the same brand of rugby.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

So the journalists are reporting that HM won't risk Etzebeth who is coming back from injury which should be applauded. I wish the SR coaches would follow suit ans make sure top players are brought back from injury with care.

In other news Callie Viasgie has been called up with Strauss banned for the silly tip tackle. He is certainly next in line everything considered (Burden, Ralepele and Brits overseas and all the other options injured) and has made huge improvements to his game since last year.

So are we looking at:

1 Mtawarira
2 Du Plessis
3 Oosthuizen / Du Plessis
4 Van der Merwe
5 Matfield
6 Brussow
7 Alberts
8 Vermeulen
9 FdP
10 Goosen / Boshoff
11 Mvovo
12 Serfontein
13 De Allende / Engelbrecht / De Jongh
14 JPP
15 Le Roux

That'd certainly be interesting but big changes in the backs. One thing is for certain though, this team will not be black enough for the politicians.

 

[Bull]

Looks like Steyn is out
http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Springboks/Boks-likely-to-lose-Steyn-20140528

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Lucky all these injuries are only for the June tests!

 

[Gena_ZA]

I think it was De Allende, have seen all these new guys and I keep confusing players for other players, but when he played against the Bulls he was soundly demolished by Basson in the air. I could definitely see Wales bombing him with high balls and have North running him down constantly, could be a difficult time for a debutant.

You are confusing him with Kolbe, huge diffs in length
De Allende is close to North is terms of size

 

[Big Ewis]

awww fkn...was lookin forward to seeing Eben E. this summer.....out for most of the tour apparently..

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Well, Mr Fish, I hope it's only for the June tests we are missing our injured guys.


2 Strauss (ban)
2 Ntubeni
3 Malherbe
4 Etzebeth
5 PSdT
5 Franco vd Merwe
7 Arno Botha
10/15 Lambie
12/15 Frans Steyn
12/13 JdV (c)
13 J Fourie
14/15 Aplon

All 1st choice players (well Malherbe should be ahead of Jannie and I'd have liked Aplon to play 1 last game LOL). I don't know what the situations are with the overseas based players though. Schalk Burger is also carrying some ****le I read somewhere.

That said we have quality back-up. Etzebeth , PSdT and Arno Botha the only guys I will personally be missing.

 

[TheSaffycen]

You are confusing him with Kolbe, huge diffs in length
De Allende is close to North is terms of size

No I know who Kolbe is, De Allende I think I confused him with Jordan ? The sharks player possibly ? Got the entirely wrong team

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Had a browse through some Superrugby stats and it just confirms that De Allende NEEDS to start and I am very excited about him at 13. Top of the SA players ITO tackles bust and 2nd only to Willie le Roux for linebreaks created and try asists. The only thing I'd like him to improve is his tackle completion rate which is only 80% whereas at 13 you want a very high tackle completion rate. He certainly has the size to bring down just about anyone so I presume the problem is positioning? He does make an insane amount of tackle attempts though easily being the back with the highest number and not far off the loose forwards. Him and Le Roux need to up their game in that department and we'll be golden.

Some other players that had good stats is Warren Whiteley leading the SA forwards in a number of areas (mostly attacking; off loads, try asists, line breaks and the like) and Marcel van der Merwe making turn-overs like crazy for the amount of minutes he's been on the field which I never really noticed as one focusses on his ball carrying more. Maybe one to seriously consider as back-up for Beast? Good work from our selectors for picking him up despite the low amount of games and mostly playing off the bench. Another player leading the stats in his position is Faf de Klerk but he also has an absolutely pathetic tackle completion rate of a fraction over 60%!! Seems we just can't have players capable on both attack and defense.. other than Warren Whiteley 97.3% (181/186) many of which under pressure and 3 stopping tries over the try line (tournament lead); truly monumental!

Faf and Warren probably overlooked because of playing for the Lions but I think its harder to shine in a poor team than a really good one.

 

[Gena_ZA]

Warren is overlooked cause he is not a monster in size - typical of all SA coaches - ever

 

[Big Ewis]

Warren is overlooked cause he is not a monster in size - typical of all SA coaches - ever

S.A. coaches understand mass then. It's no secret to them. It's the sort of good common sense that wins ***les, that.

 

[Draggs]

Whiteley is also from Durban, and we know how Meyer feels about those guys...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

S.A. coaches understand mass then. It's no secret to them. It's the sort of good common sense that wins ***les, that.

To a certain extent I agree with that statement. The kind of thing Jake White said; "a big good player is better than a not so big good player" or something to that effect. I do think though there are exceptions like Habana for instance for SA or Willie le Roux. In this case I am assuming HM won't consider the smaller player because he has (rightly) already decided to include the small(ish) Heinrich Brussow and two small backrowers for SA?... well, it simply goes against our cultural convictions.

Whiteley is also from Durban, and we know how Meyer feels about those guys...

Erm, I remember when we had 9 Sharks players on the field for the Bokke. 9/15. That's just quite a lot really from 1 province.

 

[Big Ewis]

blazing speed is always going to be both viable and solicited at the wing position. And fullbacks.
But I mean the entire Springbok style and gameplan are based on mass, even their hooker is a tighthead's dimensions. If they don't have 120kg for the first 8 positions each and two battering rams at midfield, there just isn't Springbok Rugby, simple as that.

EDIT
Just spotted: "cultural convictions" :lol: made me laugh out loud. Yes, having tiny 105kg flankers goes against "cultural convictions" for South Africa

 

[Gena_ZA]

S.A. coaches understand mass then. It's no secret to them. It's the sort of good common sense that wins ***les, that.

Have you watched all S15 matches where he played, then you will understand why his stats is the best of all no8's in the competition.
No issue with bulk or mass per say. Have an issue when a brilliant player is overlooked based on physical appearance in the forwards.
But then again the inclusion of Brussauw in the training group (eventually) makes a mockery of my statement