[2014 Mid-Year Tests] South Africa

[TheSaffycen]

Yeah Jean De Villiers isn't a bad player I guess But as Heineken said, is that distributors have sort of the same role. I think that 12.Steyn 13.De Villiers would be the combination to go for, you have the ability to have the ten just ship it on to the 12 or 13 if need be, Steyn has a massive boot to relieve pressure and he can put the ball through the hands. With South Africa you sometimes had the thing where you didn't think the ball wasn't going to go past the 12/13 though it was always hard to bring them down ! Also Englebrecht (spelling) can't be the best 13 you have ? Too me he kind of looks like a winger playing 13, his lines are pretty straight and he always backs himself to try and finish. There's nothing wrong with having a finisher in the centres but too me he is your weakest point.

 

[RWC2011Fan]

http://www.sarugby.co.za/article.aspx?category=sarugby/springboks&id=2449174
Heinrich Brussow!!

 

[TRF_heineken]

The 36-man Springbok training squad is:

Forwards (20): Tendai Mtawarira (Cell C Sharks), Trevor Nyakane (Toyota Cheetahs), Marcel van der Merwe (Vodacom Bulls)*, Jannie du Plessis (Cell C Sharks), Frans Malherbe (DHL Stormers), Coenie Oosthuizen (Toyota Cheetahs), Bismarck du Plessis (Cell C Sharks), Adriaan Strauss (Toyota Cheetahs), Eben Etzebeth (DHL Stormers), Lood de Jager (Toyota Cheetahs)*, Victor Matfield (Vodacom Bulls), Flip van der Merwe (Vodacom Bulls), Heinrich Brüssow (Toyota Cheetahs), Marcell Coetzee (Cell C Sharks), Siya Kolisi (DHL Stormers), Willem Alberts (Cell C Sharks), Jacques du Plessis (Vodacom Bulls)*, Teboho Mohoje (Toyota Cheetahs)*, Duane Vermeulen (DHL Stormers), Schalk Burger (DHL Stormers).

Backs (16): Fourie du Preez (Suntory, Japan), Francois Hougaard (Vodacom Bulls), Johan Goosen (Toyota Cheetahs), Marnitz Boshoff (Lions)*, Jean de Villiers (DHL Stormers), Damian De Allende (DHL Stormers)*, Jan Serfontein (Vodacom Bulls), Juan de Jongh (DHL Stormers), JJ Engelbrecht (Vodacom Bulls), S'bura Sithole (Cell C Sharks)*, Frans Steyn (Cell C Sharks), Lwazi Mvovo (Cell C Sharks), Bjorn Basson (Vodacom Bulls), JP Pietersen (Cell C Sharks), Cornal Hendricks (Toyota Cheetahs)*, Willie le Roux (Toyota Cheetahs).

* – Uncapped at Test level

So apart from Fourie Du Preez, HM selected only local based players.

Only 2 scrumhalves and 2 fly halves, makes me think that this is not the final group and that it's just as it is, a training squad.

I'm very happy for the guys that has been picked who hasn't been part of the setup before. And Heinrich Brussouw is back in the mix. The question is however if HM will pick him for the team at the end. Can't see much wrong with that group at all.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

The 36-man Springbok training squad is:

Forwards (20): Tendai Mtawarira (Cell C Sharks), Trevor Nyakane (Toyota Cheetahs), Marcel van der Merwe (Vodacom Bulls)*, Jannie du Plessis (Cell C Sharks), Frans Malherbe (DHL Stormers), Coenie Oosthuizen (Toyota Cheetahs), Bismarck du Plessis (Cell C Sharks), Adriaan Strauss (Toyota Cheetahs), Eben Etzebeth (DHL Stormers), Lood de Jager (Toyota Cheetahs)*, Victor Matfield (Vodacom Bulls), Flip van der Merwe (Vodacom Bulls), Heinrich Brüssow (Toyota Cheetahs), Marcell Coetzee (Cell C Sharks), Siya Kolisi (DHL Stormers), Willem Alberts (Cell C Sharks), Jacques du Plessis (Vodacom Bulls)*, Teboho Mohoje (Toyota Cheetahs)*, Duane Vermeulen (DHL Stormers), Schalk Burger (DHL Stormers).

Backs (16): Fourie du Preez (Suntory, Japan), Francois Hougaard (Vodacom Bulls), Johan Goosen (Toyota Cheetahs), Marnitz Boshoff (Lions)*, Jean de Villiers (DHL Stormers), Damian De Allende (DHL Stormers)*, Jan Serfontein (Vodacom Bulls), Juan de Jongh (DHL Stormers), JJ Engelbrecht (Vodacom Bulls), S'bura Sithole (Cell C Sharks)*, Frans Steyn (Cell C Sharks), Lwazi Mvovo (Cell C Sharks), Bjorn Basson (Vodacom Bulls), JP Pietersen (Cell C Sharks), Cornal Hendricks (Toyota Cheetahs)*, Willie le Roux (Toyota Cheetahs).

* – Uncapped at Test level

So apart from Fourie Du Preez, HM selected only local based players.

Only 2 scrumhalves and 2 fly halves, makes me think that this is not the final group and that it's just as it is, a training squad.

I'm very happy for the guys that has been picked who hasn't been part of the setup before. And Heinrich Brussouw is back in the mix. The question is however if HM will pick him for the team at the end. Can't see much wrong with that group at all.

Interesting to see Brussouw back. Whilst I think he's a great player, I don't think he's improved at all this year, so can't really see why Meyer would start selecting him now.

I'm surprised Boshoff is in the squad. He's a solid player, but certainly not an international level flyhalf. The halves position doesn't look particularly strong at all. du Preez is great, but Hougaard has not kicked on at all, Goosen has also hit a bit of a wall.

Likewise de Jager hasn't really stood out to me this season. De Allende's call up to the training squad has been well telegraphed, I can certainly see him having a long career with the Boks. The midfield and outside backs look very strong.

 

[SomeOke]

A cursory glance doesn't surprise me at all, no-one omitted who I thought would definitely get a call up.
- Matfield has been invaluable for the Bulls this years so I have to say I am a convert in terms of him still being useful to the Boks,
- Schalk and Brussow have shown they are still good enough to play for the Boks, consistently performing above and beyond at Super Rugby level.
- J du Plesis is a bit of a surprise as he's a decent ball carrier but his game isn't very varied, perhaps it's just a nurturing thing as he is only 20.
- de Jager deserves a call up, he's been a bit unlucky to not already be in the set-up but last year locks getting coming out of the woodwork.
- Johan Goosen and Boshoff only fly-halves selected, so whatever happens it looks like we're getting a bit of a change (I know Goosen has a cap and a half but he's hardly an old hat).
- I'm glad de Allende got selected and it's really no surprise he got selected above some of the other centre candidates, namely because he is big, but also because he has the versatility to cover 11-14 from the bench.
- Only Willie at fullback? Mvovo the back-up? (nvm Steyn)

Anyway I'm reasonable happy, there are a few Sharks who will probably feel a bit stung like Reinach and Jordaan but I feel their time will come, I'd predict something like:

1. Beast
2. Bismarck
3. Jannie
4. Victor
5. Flip
6. Brussow/Schalk
7. Alberts
8. Vermulen
9. du Preez
10. Goosen
11. Pietersen
12. Steyn
13. de Villiers
14. Mvovo
15. Willie

16. Strauss
17. Coenie
18. Nyakane
19. de Jager
20. Coetze
21. Hougard
22. Boshoff
23. Serfontein/Engelbregt/de Allende


I'd probably like to see a but more youngsters in the above side but I have faith HM will do the right thing, the exciting things are happening at fly-half.

 

[Gena_ZA]

Quite happy with the selections.
Brussauw certainly makes the Nation smile and pleases me that HM is not blinded to pre set selections and opinions.
Would have liked to see Reinach, Boom Prinsloo and Handre Pollard (but he is at U21 World Cup then)
Very happy to see youngsters that perform/has potential getting invited to the training camp - Teboho Majone, M v/d Merwe, J du Plessis; Cormal Henricks
Nizaam Car impressed but the loose forwards have plenty fine players there,

Players that in my opinion had bad seasons this far and should be concidered lucky is JP Pietersen, JJ Engelbrecht, Siya Kolisi
Bit skeptical on fly-half or the lack of a consistent top performer

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Quite happy with the selections.
Brussauw certainly makes the Nation smile and pleases me that HM is not blinded to pre set selections and opinions.
Would have liked to see Reinach, Boom Prinsloo and Handre Pollard (but he is at U21 World Cup then)
Very happy to see youngsters that perform/has potential getting invited to the training camp - Teboho Majone, M v/d Merwe, J du Plessis; Cormal Henricks
Nizaam Car impressed but the loose forwards have plenty fine players there,

Players that in my opinion had bad seasons this far and should be concidered lucky is JP Pietersen, JJ Engelbrecht, Siya Kolisi
Bit skeptical on fly-half or the lack of a consistent top performer

What has Pollard done to warrant selection?

I hope Burger gets first crack at the 6 jersey. In the few games I've seen of him (all on the Stormers tour to AU/NZ) he looked very sharp.

 

[Bull]

Pollard is the Junior Bok captain so I reckon that's why he wasn't picked. Very glad that Ruan Pienaar isn't there.

 

[SomeOke]

What has Pollard done to warrant selection?

I hope Burger gets first crack at the 6 jersey. In the few games I've seen of him (all on the Stormers tour to AU/NZ) he looked very sharp.

You have to remember that you had Carter, Cruden and now Barrett, all would have claimed the best 10 in the world spot. South Africa hasn't had a clear cut number 1 fly-half since...
Ages ago.
We're a bit starved for 10's so whenever a player shows some potential we all wet ourselves in anticipation that he is the chosen one. Lambie, Sias, Goosen, Boshoff, Polard - one of these days one of them will stick .

 

[Gena_ZA]

What has Pollard done to warrant selection?

I hope Burger gets first crack at the 6 jersey. In the few games I've seen of him (all on the Stormers tour to AU/NZ) he looked very sharp.

It is only a training group - needs exposure as we are low on quality 10's.
Same as with your hooker situation, none of the two in the training group deserve an International cap (yet)

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

My thoughts (most of them already brought up here);

+ Thank everybody and anybody I didn't read Ruan Pienaar's name there!
- But wee are still short in the scrumhalf dept beyond FdP with Hougaard not having grown into the potential he showed early on and a question mark hanging over FdP himself TBH. Maybe we should have considered seeing what Kockott can bring..
+ Goosen will get some more time with the Bokke and might keep fit till the Welsh come!
- But he hasn't shown the class that had everyone in SA singing his praises 2 years ago so far this year but still a good choice to develop at this stage
- Boshoff? Man, the fact that I don't have much to say tells the story of the problems SA have at 10 ATM.
+ But its better to give him a shot in June than not because we already know what we have (and don't have) in M Steyn and Lambie.
+ Brussow is probably not what he was in 2009 but still our best bet on openside with Louw overseas lets see what he can still do in a green jersey. Burger has also looked like the time out hasn't taken anything away from him. So between these two, Vermeulena nd Alberts we are sorted so I don't care about the rest because beyond these 4 we still have F Louw and A Botha.
- Mohoje? Okay, but way too early to warrant a Bok call up, same with Jacques du Plessis while I think both of them are behind Warren Whiteley and Boom Prinsloo ITO pure 'form'/'impact'. Coetzee has looked better than last year IMO but is injured and still behind the guys I above. Kolisi's game has gone backward with every game as he just does not seem to have the workrate he had on debut.
+ Etzebeth is back training and seemingly Flip van der Merwe should be good to go as well.
- big question marks over Matfield and De Jager IMO.. but we are screwed with injuries in the 2nd row ATM so not much to do but wait.
+ Beast is now more worthy of his name with engage sequence changed. Malherbe, Oosthuizen and a guy I saw coming a mile away Marcel van der Merwe all deserve their chances. Nyakane has also looked good returning.
- Jannie du Plessis is old and tired and not needed anymore with 3 very dynamic tight heads only being held up by him if you'd ask me.
+ A ton of centers in good form
- but could that be a case of a lot of good guys but no great guys so no-one stands out? Maybe I just can't believe SA can have such depth at center for once. What combination?
+ For once I am not looking with a sense of horror at what we have in the back three cupboard! Some exciting options to back up what I see as the encumbent back three of Habana, JPP and Le Roux.
+ Add Brits as option no.3 at hooker (who we'll see against the bokke in Cape Town for the 'world XV') and we don't have any want in this key position.

So my prefered 23 to take on the Welsh (and world XV and Scotland);

1 Beast
2 BdP
3 Oosthuizen - because JdP should be out and Malherbe needs to recover 100%
4 Etzebeth - assuming he is good to go in a month's time; won't play him in the exhibition match though
5 Van der Merwe
6 Brussow - give him a chance in green again.
7 Alberts
8 Vermeulen
9 Fourie du Preez - good to have him start seeing as both Goosen and Boshoff are very green and it'd only be fair to see what they could do outside du Preez as Steyn and Lambie have had the chance.
10 Goosen - I'd start him as I want to see how he can control a game; we know he would be good to bring on if we need the game to open up.
11 Mvovo
12 F Steyn
13 JdV - seeing as the man is captain...
14 JPP
15 Le Roux

16 Nyakane
17 Strauss
18 Matfield - with injuries I don't see the point in capping De Jager needlessly
19 Burger - I'm not the biggest fans of the other backrowers selected and prefer Louw and Arno Botha to come into play later on in the year
20 Hougaard..... - because he is the only other scrumhalf selected; not overly happy here.
21 Boshoff - because we know what we have in other options
22 De Allende - most promise of the rookies IMO and I'd like to see what someone other than Allister Coetzee can get out of him
23 Marcel van der Merwe - such a dynamic front rower to bring on in the last 20/30!

 

[Raggie]

So he'd be a great Shark then!
I'll have to divide my time between this and the Welsh thread, damn I hate this fixture.

Black and White before Green and Gold! As a Natalian spending many years in the "last Outpost of the British Empire" it is a very easy choice for me. You have no idea how much Provincial Bias is still manifest in South Africa!

 

[Big Ewis]

I agree it seems Beast has benefited from the scrum rule changes.
And I find it incredible that with S.A. being so, so in the halfback dept. that they probably won't pick Kockott. They might live to regret it when their entire XV looks superb by RWC time, minus the one spot that happens to be no.9. It seems like a stubborn choice from South Africa that lingers and lingers and the more it goes, France might pick Kockott, who's considered by many as the best SH in the Top 14; and there are some really good 9's in that league; or he might not be picked at all but is continuing to prove his quality, and is making it really hard for skeptics...if S.A. want him, it's RIGHT NOW. Literally the coming couple of months.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I agree it seems Beast has benefited from the scrum rule changes.
And I find it incredible that with S.A. being so, so in the halfback dept. that they probably won't pick Kockott. They might live to regret it when their entire XV looks superb by RWC time, minus the one spot that happens to be no.9. It seems like a stubborn choice from South Africa that lingers and lingers and the more it goes, France might pick Kockott, who's considered by many as the best SH in the Top 14; and there are some really good 9's in that league; or he might not be picked at all but is continuing to prove his quality, and is making it really hard for skeptics...if S.A. want him, it's RIGHT NOW. Literally the coming couple of months.

I hear you and we need another all-round 9 in his prime BUT I back SARU (I think it's them more than the coach blocking Kockott's selection) because we've already made the decision that we can pick test players based overseas. All those we've picked though have already been in Bok colors. Picking SA talent from abroad that weren't 'made' in SA though I agree is a step too far and just too dangerous a precedent for SA rugby as we are already seeing a dip in quality from our local teams due to the mass exodus of our players last year which went over ad above the rotation you expect after a RWC; IE our local teams are struggling to keep the settled quality players already and if we were to lose the carrot (of representing the Bokke) to dangle ahead of upcoming/developing quality players to keep them in SA... I don't want to consider it.

 

[TheSaffycen]

But Kockott could be the difference to South Africa winning the RWC or coming just short. We all know how much of a difference a world class scrum half can make to a team.

 

[Jaguares]

The new Boks players:

 

[Gena_ZA]

Who says Rory want to play for the Boks anyway, got a feeling he is very happy in France and would rather take his chances there

 

[Big Ewis]

I hear you and we need another all-round 9 in his prime BUT I back SARU (I think it's them more than the coach blocking Kockott's selection) because we've already made the decision that we can pick test players based overseas. All those we've picked though have already been in Bok colors. Picking SA talent from abroad that weren't 'made' in SA though I agree is a step too far and just too dangerous a precedent for SA rugby as we are already seeing a dip in quality from our local teams due to the mass exodus of our players last year which went over ad above the rotation you expect after a RWC; IE our local teams are struggling to keep the settled quality players already and if we were to lose the carrot (of representing the Bokke) to dangle ahead of upcoming/developing quality players to keep them in SA... I don't want to consider it.

ahemm....yes of course, as a Frenchman I understand. You know, in life, there's a line and you just can't cros......ah fk it, it's way too fake, nobody'll buy that !!!

But Kockott could be the difference to South Africa winning the RWC or coming just short. We all know how much of a difference a world class scrum half can make to a team.

that's what I'm hinting at. I see the current Springboks, have watched all their tests for years. I see Rory Kockott, I watch Castres often (as I was born a Castres fan). And I put two and two together and I see something quite nice, ESPECIALLY given South Africa's difficulty with the halfback pairing atm. He would add so much; heck he would to any team. Any team.

Very hot, Conrad. Friends of yours, I presume ?

Who says Rory want to play for the Boks anyway, got a feeling he is very happy in France and would rather take his chances there

well that's why tons of French fans don't want him. We know he wanted to try out for the Boks before France. If he wants to take his chances in France NOW, it's because of how long South Africa have refused to even look at him. It lingers, lingers, and then BAM. Chocolate icecream. Well no that can't be it...yes, I meant - and then the player himself gets discouraged and as he distances from one end, so does he reach for the other overtime and now I think his mind is just set on making France.
South Africa have waited too long, and hear this: THEY WILL LOSE THE RUGBY WORLD CUP BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T PICK RORY KOCKOTT !!!!! I HAVE SPOKENN !!!!!

Listen, this is getting out of hand. I've just got to stop the post here.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Maybe the South African coaches just don't think he's very good? I don't think particularly highly of him, he doesn't look to have improved much since he left South Africa, perhaps the coaches are thinking along similar lines?

 

[Big Ewis]

I remember reading that some guy from the Saffa coaching staff said he didn't trust Kockott was that good, because he had just had one break-out very good season for Castres, but maybe it was an 'accident', or luck, and he wouldn't trust picking a guy who doesn't show he can play at the highest level against the best South African clubs. But that by now he may regret Kockott's absence. It was very recently.