[2014 Mid-Year Tests] South Africa

[iINDOMINUSxx]

im really hoping that Warren Whiteley will be called he is playing really well and is one off the best back-rowers in the super 15 and in the last game he made 21 tackles which is impressive and de Allende i hope get called out aswell he too is on form

 

[Big Ewis]

Carl Hayman and Hosea Gear in the World XV:
http://www.allblacks.com/News/24965/carl-hayman-and-hosea-gear-in-world-xv-to-face-springboks

Schalk Brits, Rory Kockott and some other Saffas to, with Bleus Trinh-Duc, Julien Bonnaire, England's Steffon Armitage, Wallabies JO'C, Giteau and Drew Mitchell...
http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,9817_9300660,00.html

 

[TheSaffycen]

Is the world XV the same group of players for the barbarians ? I see a few of them are in both I was wondering if it is just the same squad.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

this is my south african squad which i would really like to see.

1.) Tendai Mtawarira
2.) Bismarck du Plessis
3.) Frans Malherbe
4.) Eben Etzebeth
5.) Flip van der Merwe
6.) Duane Vermeulen (im sure he's capable of playing blindside)
7.) Willem Alberts
8.) Warren Whiteley
9.) Fourie du Preez
10.) Patrick Lambie
11.) Bryan Habana
12.) Jean de Villiers (c)
13.) JJ Engelbrecht
14.) Damian de Allende
15.) Willie le Roux (also might give Francois Steyn a chance at fullback)

16.) Adriaan Strauss
17.) Gurthro Steenkamp
18.) Coenie Oosthuizen
19.) Pieter-Steph du Toit
20.) Siya Kolisi
21.) Francois Hougaard
22.) Jacques-Louis Potgieter
23.) JP Pietersen

im really hoping that Warren Whiteley will be called he is playing really well and is one off the best back-rowers in the super 15 and in the last game he made 21 tackles which is impressive and de Allende i hope get called out aswell he too is on form

Some good shouts! +1

good looking XV's. Some names I don't know. Will there be a few try-outs potentially this summer ? And where do you feel there isn't as much depth as you'd like per position ?

I hope there are some try-outs, yes. Depends if HM feels (and who would know!) we have enough depth in experience but I certainly don't think we have. There are some new guys that certainly have shown better form than many of the guys that have been in and/or around the squad. ImScotty has two of them pinned down correctly. A lot also depends on whether the guys at home are fit/uninjured and how much we'll be dependingon or overlooking our overseas-based players. Again I wouldn't know which way HM is leaning.

At hooker and prop we are sorted with good depth in talent. Lock we have good players but fitness is a worry now with our top 4 locks out injured so don't be surprised to see Victor Matfield (37 already?) against Wales! At the backrow we have an obscenity of players to choose from if we include our overseas based guys as well. The question there is finding the right mix/balance which I think HM has done. Buthere is the big problem for me; 9/10. Who do we go for? FdP is a certainty but we can't count on him alone. Pienaar and Hougaard have been terrible. The others are all untested at test level and not exactly on fire in SR while Kockott is in France with Vermaak (but without the Bok connections the others have in place). At 10 Steyn is in France, Lambie has not taking his chances with the Bokke and is injured in any case. I'm hoping for Johan Goosen (back from injury) but he is made of glass so no point in setting ones hopes on him. Handre Pollard, Jacques-Louis Potgieter, Peter Grant and Marnitz Boshoff are other options. Pollard has the most promise of the 4 but is playing for teh junior Bokke so we know he is not in HM's eye as of yet so I'd like to see Goosen and Potgieter share time.
AT center we have sooo many options but De Villiers keeps up one spot through his captaincy so we only have 1 spot for a whole host of centers- which is good because it wasn't too long ago we only had 4 centers to choose from in JdV, Fourie, Steyn and Olivier. In the outside backs, Habana, JP Pietersena and Le Roux are all class (Le Roux does defend better in a green jersey than an orange one) but beyond them we have problems IMO.

Carl Hayman and Hosea Gear in the World XV:
http://www.allblacks.com/News/24965/carl-hayman-and-hosea-gear-in-world-xv-to-face-springboks

Schalk Brits, Rory Kockott and some other Saffas to, with Bleus Trinh-Duc, Julien Bonnaire, England's Steffon Armitage, Wallabies JO'C, Giteau and Drew Mitchell...
http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,9817_9300660,00.html

Wow, so it looks like it actually might turn out to be a worth-while fixture. I'll be getting some tickets for sure.

 

[Draggs]

It's quite left field, but surely Stephan Lewies has been the most consistent second row? Has more game time than others who have been selected previously. Also, PSdT is injured for he season, so I don't think even Meyer can force him to ride pine this time.

Mvovo over Habana, Bryan has been injured for a bit, while Mvovo has been very solid for us even at fullback. Think Jordaan would have been a good option if he hadn't have spent the last few weeks on the mend. I think he offers more than Englebrecht, and certainly showed it in the first few matches. Likewise, Cobus would have been in the 23 but again, has missed a good few weeks now. Who knows, they still have three more tour matches to light it up. Frans has been reliable for us, but id hope Meyer ignores him, he could do with a break!

 

[Big Ewis]

well I just hope the World XV can make it interesting in that even if they take a pounding at least they play to the players' ability. It would suck for everybody, Boks fans included, if the match goes something like 40-10 with constant communication issues and stuttering on attack and big gaps on defense from the away side.
This isn't a Lions team where the players know each other at least a little bit, a number of solid combinations exist at country level, and where the team plays a large number of matches and has plenty of time to prepare beforehand anyways. This is: you get out there and play, you've got 80minutes, and it's against the Boks in South Africa.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

It's quite left field, but surely Stephan Lewies has been the most consistent second row? Has more game time than others who have been selected previously. Also, PSdT is injured for he season, so I don't think even Meyer can force him to ride pine this time.

Mvovo over Habana, Bryan has been injured for a bit, while Mvovo has been very solid for us even at fullback. Think Jordaan would have been a good option if he hadn't have spent the last few weeks on the mend. I think he offers more than Englebrecht, and certainly showed it in the first few matches. Likewise, Cobus would have been in the 23 but again, has missed a good few weeks now. Who knows, they still have three more tour matches to light it up. Frans has been reliable for us, but id hope Meyer ignores him, he could do with a break!

LOL, Draggs. That is a very Sharks-heavy Bok team but TBF, yes Lewies has been going well (I even have him in my fantasy rugby team on Foxsports.com.au) and so has Mvovo and one can't deny the Sharks are log leaders even while heavily burdened with injury while the other SA teams are struggling. I wouldn't call foul if either were called up but you know how the SA public is, the majority will make a huge noise if their province isn't represented and Matfield is playing because Meyer asked him too (at least that is what Matfield has stated swayed him to help out the Bulls- the chance of playing in RWC 2015) which is not a good sign IMO.

well I just hope the World XV can make it interesting in that even if they take a pounding at least they play to the players' ability. It would suck for everybody, Boks fans included, if the match goes something like 40-10 with constant communication issues and stuttering on attack and big gaps on defense from the away side.
This isn't a Lions team where the players know each other at least a little bit, a number of solid combinations exist at country level, and where the team plays a large number of matches and has plenty of time to prepare beforehand anyways. This is: you get out there and play, you've got 80minutes, and it's against the Boks in South Africa.

I suspect the Bok side to face the worls XV will be quite ad-hoc as well (what better fixture to experiment in- I almost want to compare it to target practice with a fixed target) so hopefully we might not get the usual one-sided affair so typical of invitational teams. That said I hope both teams find themselves and it doesn't end up being a case of two haphazard teams ending up playing haphazard rugby.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I'm very interested to see HM's approach to this year. The big question will be if he's going to get the old guns back from NH or will he just focus on locally based talents? My reason for asking this, is that apart from Habana's selfies, Danie Rossouw's retirement and Bakkies Botha's interest in rejoining Victor, no other player has made much noise from either a performance point of view, or any other point of view. The only guy that has made great contributions for his team was CJ Stander.

Morne Steyn has been non-existant, maybe that's a good thing. I haven't read anything newsworthy about his performances for his French team.

With that said, here are some players I'd like to see for the training squad:

Props: Beast Mtawarira, Jannie Du Plessis, Coenie Oosthuizen, Frans Malherbe, Caylib Oosthuizen, Marcel van der Merwe and Morne Mellett.
Hookers: Bismarck Du Plessis, Adriaan Strauss, Callie Visagie
Locks: Flip van Der Merwe, Stephan Lewies, Paul Willemse, Willem Alberts, Eben Etzebeth
Flankers: Heinrich Brussouw, Jacques Du Plessis, Francois Louw, Lappies Labuschagne, Jaco Kriel
No. 8: Duane Vermeulen, Philip van der Walt, Warren Whiteley
Scrumhalves: Cobus Reinach, Francois Hougaard, Piet van Zyl, Faf De Klerk
Flyhalf: Jacques-Louis Potgieter, Frans Steyn, Johan Goosen, Marnitz Boshoff
Centre: Jan Serfontein, JJ Engelbrecht, JDV, JDJ, Damien De Allende, Paul Jordaan
Wings: Lwazi Mvovo, JP Pietersen, Bjorn Basson, Cheslin Kolbe, Rayno Benjamin, Raymond Rhule
Fullback: Jaco Taute, Hennie Daniller, Willie Le Roux.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I'm very interested to see HM's approach to this year. The big question will be if he's going to get the old guns back from NH or will he just focus on locally based talents? My reason for asking this, is that apart from Habana's selfies, Danie Rossouw's retirement and Bakkies Botha's interest in rejoining Victor, no other player has made much noise from either a performance point of view, or any other point of view. The only guy that has made great contributions for his team was CJ Stander.

I think you could add Rory Kockott and lets be honest we probably need to look at bringing in some freshness at 9. I'm a bit miffed that HM has left us in the dark as to what his motivations will be regarding selections and how he sees this June series. Before the EoYT last year November he made it clear that he wanted to test old players to see what they could still offer and wanted to take a core of players to test them in what would be close to conditions they could expect in RWC 2015. But up till now I havn't come across anything pertaining to the upcoming games against Wales at home. It would seem logical to me to bring in newbies or at least give teh fringe guys bigger roles this time seeing as it''s at home and Wales seem a tad off form but if HM has given any indication of his intentions I've not seen it.

Morne Steyn has been non-existant, maybe that's a good thing. I haven't read anything newsworthy about his performances for his French team.

Ja, Steyn seems not to be 1st choice and in Japan Du Preez is flying under the radar. I too see this as a blessing so that these guys get preserved to hopefully be avaiable and in good condition if we need them come 2015 (and we probably will).

With that said, here are some players I'd like to see for the training squad:

Props: Beast Mtawarira, Jannie Du Plessis, Coenie Oosthuizen, Frans Malherbe these 4 are the incumbents and rightfully so yes, Caylib Oosthuizen, Marcel van der Merwe and Morne Mellett. No Lourens Adriaanse? I thought he did pretty well with the Bokke. I've also been very impressed with the Lions' props this year though getting a Bok call-up playing for the Lions will take a bit of a miracle I suppose though it shouldn't.
Hookers: Bismarck Du Plessis, Adriaan Strauss, Callie Visagiemy personal preference would be Ntubeni of the local guys but TBH it doesn't matter as BdP and Strauss have the position sewn up. Brits, Burden and Kyle Cooper are also on a level (if not above) both Visagie and Ntubeni
Locks: Flip van Der Merwe, Stephan Lewies, Paul Willemse, Willem Alberts, Eben Etzebeth with PSdT not being avaiable anytime soon Lewies is a good call and I think Willemse is playing better rugby every time I see him (can't say a 130kg body won't be useful in test rugby as well) but I'd hate to see Alberts moved off the flanks where he has better opportunity to do what he does best- bruise the opp
Flankers: Heinrich Brussouw, Jacques Du Plessis, Francois Louw, Lappies Labuschagne, Jaco Kriel No. 8: Duane Vermeulen, Philip van der Walt, Warren Whiteley
Labuschagne and vd Walt havn't played any rugby this year!? Louw and Vermeulen are shoe-ins yes. Whitely would certainly deserve a call up but would he suits test rugby nevermind bok rugby? Might work, we could certainly do with some... flair/pace in the backrow but would we lose too much of what has worked for us last year? FLouw and Vermeulen might not have pace but they have surprisingly had a number of try assists between them after breaking the line (odd as it is to see these 115kg odd bodies fly and offload). Kriel I feel has not built on strong showings from last year but Brussow has been the man behind the Cheetahs' revival of their season IMO. It would be criminal to leave the man with a 100% record against the All Blacks out now that he seems back to his best I agree. I agree with you with leaving Kolisi out. Of the Stormers flankers Schalk Burger and Carr have been better. Doo you know (as a Bulls supprter) how far Arno Botha is from being fit? THAT is our flanker right there. If he comes in then I wouldn't mind putting Alberts at lock or not having Louw or Brussow start.
Scrumhalves: Cobus Reinach, Francois Hougaard, Piet van Zyl, Faf De Klerk it's depressing to me that these are the best calls from inside SA.
Flyhalf: Jacques-Louis Potgieter, Frans Steyn, Johan Goosen, Marnitz Boshof LOL, imagine Frans has done well at 10, could you imagine the size of matchday XV we could put out if we focussed on weight strating with Frans at 10!. I hope Goosen goes well. I feel it is between him and Pollard for going forward (though Pollard is with the Juniors ATM)
Centre: Jan Serfontein, JJ Engelbrecht, JDV, JDJ, Damien De Allende, Paul Jordaan I suppose we have to cut somebody and then there is still Jaque Fourie seemingly in the back of HM's mind and Frans Steyn to consider as I don't think HM will consider him at 10. Man, it's gonna be a tough choice to sort out these options. Balance will be key. It's kinda sad JdV is captain as that will weigh too much not to have him be the point the decision is based around and I don't like him at 13.
Wings: Lwazi Mvovo, JP Pietersen, Bjorn Basson, Cheslin Kolbe, Rayno Benjamin, Raymond Rhule I've never been a fan of Basson but I think now is the time to rest Habana (I hear he is on and off in any case with injury) and see what we have in Mvovo/Benjamin or Rhule. Kolbe is just too puny.. I mean he is half of what Aplon is. Pity Aplon is injured.
Fullback: Jaco Taute, Hennie Daniller, Willie Le Roux. Willie le Roux has to start to cement his place and get some caps under the belt IMO at 15 in test rugby. I hate that the Cheetahs play him at 14 as he needs to work on his defense at 15.

My humble comments in blue above.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I think you could add Rory Kockott and lets be honest we probably need to look at bringing in some freshness at 9. I'm a bit miffed that HM has left us in the dark as to what his motivations will be regarding selections and how he sees this June series. Before the EoYT last year November he made it clear that he wanted to test old players to see what they could still offer and wanted to take a core of players to test them in what would be close to conditions they could expect in RWC 2015. But up till now I havn't come across anything pertaining to the upcoming games against Wales at home. It would seem logical to me to bring in newbies or at least give teh fringe guys bigger roles this time seeing as it''s at home and Wales seem a tad off form but if HM has given any indication of his intentions I've not seen it.


Ja, Steyn seems not to be 1st choice and in Japan Du Preez is flying under the radar. I too see this as a blessing so that these guys get preserved to hopefully be avaiable and in good condition if we need them come 2015 (and we probably will).



My humble comments in blue above.

Thanx for the reply.

My picks are just for the training, and I purely went with what I have seen so far. Lourens Adriaanse has been underused, so I can't see him make the cut. Not that he's a bad choice at all.

I didn't pick any injured guys as I don't know who'll be ready in time. Arno Botha is presumably already busy with the recovery process, but I think we shouldn't rush him back this time. There are many guys that I haven't mentioned that should be part of the selection pool, I just threw in a bunch of names that caught my eye. A guy like Rayno Benjamin has really impressed me, and he can play scrumhalf, centre and wing.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Agreed Benjamin has looked exciting; a legend of the 7's game making a good transition to 15's like Aplon. Hope he isn't wasted like Aplon is.

 

[Draggs]

Haha, you know what I'm about Stormer. I wish there were better options than beast and jannie. They need a rest!
Not sure I'd pick Steyn, he is better at 12, but still doesn't work great with his outside backs.

We need to get the Ebersohns back. Said is doing well in Perth, should have brought him to a Durban after Fred went down.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Haha, you know what I'm about Stormer. I wish there were better options than beast and jannie. They need a rest!
Not sure I'd pick Steyn, he is better at 12, but still doesn't work great with his outside backs.

We need to get the Ebersohns back. Said is doing well in Perth, should have brought him to a Durban after Fred went down.

Me and my friends had a long discussion about this on Saturday after the match between the Bulls and Stormers. We debated for a long while, and it was interesting to take it all in as there was someone who backed one of the SA teams. In total we were 9 guys, 3 Bulls supporters, 3 Stormers Supporters, 1 Lions, 1 Shark, 1 Cheetah. Needles to say there was a lot of disagreements. Especially when deciding how the backline should look like. Which was strange, as I was the only guy that wanted De Allende in the mix. I was sure that my brother, who is a big Stormers supporter would want him there, but he said, "De Allende is a centre, not a wing, and is terrible under the high ball, just look at how easy Basson and Ndungane won that battle".

Another discussion was around Flyhalf. I named my 3 guys, which I also listed here, some agreed some didn't. My fellow Bulls supporters said that Morne Steyn just have to be picked, whereas the Stormers supporters said that his time is up and the new guys have to be used especially because of their variance in play.

But the biggest debate came with the loose trio. Here all 9 of us had a different point of view. Some said that it should be Brussouw, Schalk, Vermeulen, others went for Louw, Alberts, Vermeulen, one guy said that he'd play Alberts and Flip at lock, with Brussouw and Louw at flank and Duane at no. 8.

Needless to say, we couldn't come to any conclusions, and by 02:00 am the wives had enough of the wine and took their husbands home.

I just don't know anymore, who to pick and who to leave out. And Heyneke has been very quiet and under the radar...

 

[Shaggy]

Me and my friends had a long discussion about this on Saturday after the match between the Bulls and Stormers. We debated for a long while, and it was interesting to take it all in as there was someone who backed one of the SA teams. In total we were 9 guys, 3 Bulls supporters, 3 Stormers Supporters, 1 Lions, 1 Shark, 1 Cheetah. Needles to say there was a lot of disagreements. Especially when deciding how the backline should look like. Which was strange, as I was the only guy that wanted De Allende in the mix. I was sure that my brother, who is a big Stormers supporter would want him there, but he said, "De Allende is a centre, not a wing, and is terrible under the high ball, just look at how easy Basson and Ndungane won that battle".

Another discussion was around Flyhalf. I named my 3 guys, which I also listed here, some agreed some didn't. My fellow Bulls supporters said that Morne Steyn just have to be picked, whereas the Stormers supporters said that his time is up and the new guys have to be used especially because of their variance in play.

But the biggest debate came with the loose trio. Here all 9 of us had a different point of view. Some said that it should be Brussouw, Schalk, Vermeulen, others went for Louw, Alberts, Vermeulen, one guy said that he'd play Alberts and Flip at lock, with Brussouw and Louw at flank and Duane at no. 8.

Needless to say, we couldn't come to any conclusions, and by 02:00 am the wives had enough of the wine and took their husbands home.

I just don't know anymore, who to pick and who to leave out. And Heyneke has been very quiet and under the radar...

"Three Bulls supporters, Three Stormers supporters, a Lions supporter, a Sharks supporter, and a Cheetahs supporter ... walk into a bar ... "

No, seriously, when's the squad announced ... I've been reading articles about recalling Morne Steyn, which is a backwards step in my opinion

 

[TRF_heineken]

"Three Bulls supporters, Three Stormers supporters, a Lions supporter, a Sharks supporter, and a Cheetahs supporter ... walk into a bar ... "

No, seriously, when's the squad announced ... I've been reading articles about recalling Morne Steyn, which is a backwards step in my opinion

I read that too. I can see what they are getting at, and it has worked very well to our advantage in the past. Fourie Du Preez, Francois Louw, Jaque Fourie... players seem to be a bit more rejuvenated, and maybe the thinking is that Morne will be the same.

either way, I think SA is now in a very good position when it comes to flyhalves. There are plenty of options, which wasn't the case before.

 

[Big Ewis]

soooo, is South Africa going to win all 4 matches ? :crazy:
I think they will...they really, really don't like to lose at home during those summer tours...can't remember the last time they lost one during that period.....ages ago, must be pre-2007 RWC......and I'm just not sure how Wales can achieve any sort of psychological edge over them. How does Wales put itself in a position to WIN ?...I can see them taking the lead in a test, even til half-time, but how do they hold onto that, who/what do they go to ? How do they get the rock-solid consistency you need to beat SA at home ??...
For Scotland it will be a task too high....and that World XV thing, well, we've touched on it earlier.

I'd say a clean whitewash for the Boks. 4-0.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

soooo, is South Africa going to win all 4 matches ? :crazy:
I think they will...they really, really don't like to lose at home during those summer tours...can't remember the last time they lost one during that period.....ages ago, must be pre-2007 RWC......and I'm just not sure how Wales can achieve any sort of psychological edge over them. How does Wales put itself in a position to WIN ?...I can see them taking the lead in a test, even til half-time, but how do they hold onto that, who/what do they go to ? How do they get the rock-solid consistency you need to beat SA at home ??...
For Scotland it will be a task too high....and that World XV thing, well, we've touched on it earlier.

I'd say a clean whitewash for the Boks. 4-0.

Well, I don't want to stick my neck out but really it should. At home the fans aren't even happy with a win. The only time we'd be happy with a win is against the All Blacks. No, at home at least, the visitor has to be humiliated or it's as good as a loss for most fans. People here just don't know (or care) that Wales are a very good team ATM (speaking generationally rather than right this second as I know they are possibly a bit thinner than they could be due to injuries). The players will know what is expected and perform accordingly. That said we do have a habit of dropping the intensity for the third match. It's almost a rule rather than a habit really. So, Wales to lead the 3rd match at half time in that game and anything can happen from there but I expect a furious first 20 in games 1 and 2. If Wales can hold out the first 20 things could get interesting though. Against teh world XV.. it should be a win but not because we'd be up for it as much as that lets fac it, it'd a case of a class XV well drilled vs a class XV strug together and rugby is very much a team sport.

 

[goodNumber10]

soooo, is South Africa going to win all 4 matches ? :crazy:
I think they will...they really, really don't like to lose at home during those summer tours...can't remember the last time they lost one during that period.....ages ago, must be pre-2007 RWC......

British Lions 3rd Test 2009

I'd say a clean whitewash for the Boks. 4-0.

Agreed.

 

[Big Ewis]

British Lions 3rd Test 2009

hmmmm yeah, I meant like, a regular non-super team made up of elite players from four Tier 1 nations............but, yeah.

stormer, interesting post to read. Yeah uhm...in France it's the same...uh, like, the fans only settle for a big win or an average win against the All-Blacks, nothing less...:unsure:
And by "3rd test against the Welsh", I understand you mean the Scottish type. So yeah, the Scottish Wales team could put up an okay fight with Vern Cotter in office that time around....
You're such an arrogant South African, you don't even know who you're playing exactly and you don't really give a shhit and you're expecting a win anyways ! :lol:

And I was thinking about something....there are so many Saffas in the Top 14 right now, how about our South Africans challenge yours ?!! It would be: teh French South Africans VS South African South Africans. And it would count as a test match. In fact, the French South African should be considered a nation and participate in the RWC.

P.S.: checked. Not to brag, because we got fkd in 2010 there, but the last time South Africa lost in a summer home test was France 2006. And they were NOT having a fabulous year then altogether, despite winning the RWC a year later lol...

 

[goodNumber10]

hmmmm yeah, I meant like, a regular non-super team made up of elite players from four Tier 1 nations............but, yeah.

stormer, interesting post to read. Yeah uhm...in France it's the same...uh, like, the fans only settle for a big win or an average win against the All-Blacks, nothing less...:unsure:
And by "3rd test against the Welsh", I understand you mean the Scottish type. So yeah, the Scottish Wales team could put up an okay fight with Vern Cotter in office that time around....
You're such an arrogant South African, you don't even know who you're playing exactly and you don't really give a shhit and you're expecting a win anyways ! :lol:

And I was thinking about something....there are so many Saffas in the Top 14 right now, how about our South Africans challenge yours ?!! It would be: teh French South Africans VS South African South Africans. And it would count as a test match. In fact, the French South African should be considered a nation and participate in the RWC.

P.S.: checked. Not to brag, because we got fkd in 2010 there, but the last time South Africa lost in a summer home test was France 2006.

the world xv could, maybe just beat them, first game out the traps and it's quite a mega team.