[2014 Mid-Year Tests] New Zealand

[Chikwa]

Taylor hasn't been starting for the Crusaders lately, so he hasn't had a lot of game time. Fekitoa is more likely to make the final squad than Slade is, I'd imagine (I can't see Slade getting any game time with Barrett and Cruden both likely to be fit), and Taylor was originally selected as a 10 for the All Blacks (though his ability to cover midfield and fullback would have been appealing too).

So that doesn't really answer your question, but there isn't really a straight forward answer

Colin slade is finally showing his promise.He can play fly half , ,12,13&15. He is likely to make the final squad.

 

[Darwin]

Colin slade is finally showing his promise.He can play fly half , ,12,13&15. He is likely to make the final squad.

Well he can play 10 & 15. I don't think he has ever played in the midfield....

 

[Chikwa]

Overall a largely predictable squad. Not that is necessarily a bad thing! There are a few new faces, but the fact that the likes of Fekitoa, Coltman, and Harris will be selected was hardly kept secret. The only thing I'm not sure of is the make-up of the training squad: 8 loose-forwards? Only 4 outside backs? Only 5 props? I for one expected to see another prop (Toomaga-Allen). On the player front the only real surprise for me was Vito (for the same reasons as Mr Fish I suspect). I'm not saying he shouldn't be there, just I didn't think the AB's selectors would pick him....

Good to see two younger hooker (Harris & Coltman) given a chance - not that the selectors had much option with Flynn leaving. It will be a straight head-to-head between these two for the 3rd hooker position in the 31-man squad. I'm also happy to see Tuipolotu included. He is still very raw, but so to is Bird, and I think both have more potential at the top level than Thrush (or Romano for that matter). Tuipolotu, Thrush, Bird, and Luatua are probably battling for 2 spots in the actual 31-man squad...

No surprise to see Luke Whitelock included again. Over the last few weeks he has actually started to show some very good signs at Super Rugby level. I'm hoping he won't make the final squad, but at least he is starting to show why the AB's selectors rate him so highly. I can't really see any room for Vito in the 31-man squad as Kaino, Messam, Cane, McCaw, and Read are all certainties in my opinion. The only way I could see him being included is if they chose only 3 locks and decided Kaino would provide a 4th locking option if required (but I can't see that happening).

All 14 of the backs in this squad should be included in the final squad.....

The question to be asked concerning Luke whitelock is:What qualities does he have that make him a world class loose forward? Yes we all saw him get a try against the Reds and he was involved in the build up of others but really where are the qualities that we expect to see in loosies.Dominance at the breakdown,High tackle rate(Effective and crucial tackles)High work rate. Consistent support of the backs and forwards.

 

[Shaggy]

Taylor hasn't been starting for the Crusaders lately, so he hasn't had a lot of game time. Fekitoa is more likely to make the final squad than Slade is, I'd imagine (I can't see Slade getting any game time with Barrett and Cruden both likely to be fit), and Taylor was originally selected as a 10 for the All Blacks (though his ability to cover midfield and fullback would have been appealing too).

So that doesn't really answer your question, but there isn't really a straight forward answer

Taylor might have started in the Centres for the Crusaders against the Reds, but took a knock making a tackle the week before, and was deemed not to have recovered from his concussion ... Slade has been very well at 10 for the Crusaders, and has kept Taylor's few appearances confined to the midfield. I disagree with the esteemed Mr Fish slightly, but agree with Darwin, that All of the Backs will be included in the final squad of 31. I think they'll cut L.Whitelock, J.Thrush, one of the young hookers (Coltman or Harris), and either Luatua or Vito (I think it will be Vito, as Luatua is more versatile IMO)

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Taylor might have started in the Centres for the Crusaders against the Reds, but took a knock making a tackle the week before, and was deemed not to have recovered from his concussion ... Slade has been very well at 10 for the Crusaders, and has kept Taylor's few appearances confined to the midfield. I disagree with the esteemed Mr Fish slightly, but agree with Darwin, that All of the Backs will be included in the final squad of 31. I think they'll cut L.Whitelock, J.Thrush, one of the young hookers (Coltman or Harris), and either Luatua or Vito (I think it will be Vito, as Luatua is more versatile IMO)

That would still leave us with a squad of 32 as it's currently comprised of 36 members (though Thrush and Whitelock are both half members, in essence). Would you see the locks cut down to three also, or perhaps another loose forward/halfback/centre dropped? I'd probably omit one of the locks, given these options, but I feel Slade might have slightly less of a chance.

 

[Darwin]

The question to be asked concerning Luke whitelock is:What qualities does he have that make him a world class loose forward? Yes we all saw him get a try against the Reds and he was involved in the build up of others but really where are the qualities that we expect to see in loosies.Dominance at the breakdown,High tackle rate(Effective and crucial tackles)High work rate. Consistent support of the backs and forwards.

Luke Whitelock isn't a world class loose forward yet. He's not even an international class loose forward yet. The AB's selectors believe he has the potential to be a world class loose-forward. He looks to have a very similar skill-set to Kieran Read, and in recent weeks the Crusaders have started using him in the role they (and the AB's) use Read. The problem many had (and possibly still have) with Whitelock was not that he doesn't do the 'basics' right, rather he only did the basics and offered nothing more. He is good enough at the breakdown, has an excellent work-rate, is strong lineout option, and is an accurate defender. In recent weeks he has started to show much more of a running game, and had the chance to show off his ball-handling skills (which are fantastic for a loose-forward). There are still areas of his game which need a lot of work (e.g. ball running close to the breakdown, physicality in general), but over the last few weeks I think we are starting to see what the AB's selectors see in him.

 

[Shaggy]

That would still leave us with a squad of 32 as it's currently comprised of 36 members (though Thrush and Whitelock are both half members, in essence). Would you see the locks cut down to three also, or perhaps another loose forward/halfback/centre dropped? I'd probably omit one of the locks, given these options, but I feel Slade might have slightly less of a chance.

Oh yes, I forgot to allow for the Thrush/Whitelock thing ... 36 players, not 35 ... I guess any of those options you suggest are viable, as injury replacements are easily accessible when/if needed ... my preference would be for one of the locks or Luatau to be ommitted to get the squad to 31

... the two young hookers might have to be retained too, if Dane Coles doesn't recover from his back injury on time

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

It makes it very hard to predict the squad when they can't even stick to the number of squad members they originally announced Good thing we didn't have bets on it!

 

[Shaggy]

It makes it very hard to predict the squad when they can't even stick to the number of squad members they originally announced Good thing we didn't have bets on it!

That would have been great ... what odds would you have been offering to "Bring Back Buck"

 

[Kapa O Pango]

Read, McCaw, Kaino. This awesome back-row trio, work really well together in the last RWC, let's see if they can spark something again.

 

[ABs2011]

I like the squad! Boy do we have some depth!

Great to see Tuipulotu, Vito, Fekitoa and Slade all getting call ups.

So I haven't had my ear to the ground with this kind of stuff, but looking toward RWC 2015 (which will be 30 players right?), barring injuries and including SBW, it seems highly likely that:

Props: Charlie Faumuina, Tony Woodcock, Ben Franks, Wyatt Crockett and Owen Franks

Hookers: Mealamu, Coles with Harris and Coltman vying for the last hooker spot (Harris maybe having the edge at this stage I hear??)

Locks: Brodie Retallick and Sam Whitelock with Tuipulotu, Romano, Bird and Thrush will compete for 2 spots between them.

Loosies: Jerome Kaino, Sam Cane, Liam Messam, Richie McCaw and Kieran Read with possibly L. Whitelock, Vito, and Luatua up for at most 1 spot although a squad of 30 suggests presumably only 5 loosies are selected right?

Half back: Smith, TKB, and TJ

Five Eight: DC, Cruden, and Barrett. I'd suggest they will take 3 guys as opposed to 2 like RWC2011 and use Barrett off the bench as utility - Slade as back up.

Centres: Nonu, C. Smith, SBW, then Fekitoa vs Crotty for 4th midfield spot.

Outsides: Savea, Ben Smith which leaves 2 spots for Piutau, Jane, Dagg and maybe Kahui to fight for.

Is this how people feel things are shaping up? Sorry to take the leap to RWC2015 already!

 

[Shaggy]

I like the squad! Boy do we have some depth!

Great to see Tuipulotu, Vito, Fekitoa and Slade all getting call ups.

So I haven't had my ear to the ground with this kind of stuff, but looking toward RWC 2015 (which will be 30 players right?), barring injuries and including SBW, it seems highly likely that:

Props: Charlie Faumuina, Tony Woodcock, Ben Franks, Wyatt Crockett and Owen Franks

Hookers: Mealamu, Coles with Harris and Coltman vying for the last hooker spot (Harris maybe having the edge at this stage I hear??)

Locks: Brodie Retallick and Sam Whitelock with Tuipulotu, Romano, Bird and Thrush will compete for 2 spots between them.

Loosies: Jerome Kaino, Sam Cane, Liam Messam, Richie McCaw and Kieran Read with possibly L. Whitelock, Vito, and Luatua up for at most 1 spot although a squad of 30 suggests presumably only 5 loosies are selected right?

Half back: Smith, TKB, and TJ

Five Eight: DC, Cruden, and Barrett. I'd suggest they will take 3 guys as opposed to 2 like RWC2011 and use Barrett off the bench as utility - Slade as back up.

Centres: Nonu, C. Smith, SBW, then Fekitoa vs Crotty for 4th midfield spot.

Outsides: Savea, Ben Smith which leaves 2 spots for Piutau, Jane, Dagg and maybe Kahui to fight for.

Is this how people feel things are shaping up? Sorry to take the leap to RWC2015 already!

They are all certainly in the frame aren't they ... there's a few others like Matt Todd that you could add too ... just too far away for me to make a prediction, but I guess we'll have a clearer idea after this years tests as to who they want and how they'll use them

 

[ABs2011]

They are all certainly in the frame aren't they ... there's a few others like Matt Todd that you could add too ... just too far away for me to make a prediction, but I guess we'll have a clearer idea after this years tests as to who they want and how they'll use them

Yeah for sure. There is a list of players not included in my list above which I would consider All Black "back ups" which would arguably slot in to most international teams comfortably. Todd certainly one of them.

 

[Shaggy]

Yeah for sure. There is a list of players not included in my list above which I would consider All Black "back ups" which would arguably slot in to most international teams comfortably. Todd certainly one of them.

Well player attrition certainly is a factor

... hopefully we can get the Hooker situation sorted by the end of year too

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

If we look even beyond 2015 we'll have a very nice player pool to pick from in most positions - these are just the promising guys under 25 who will likely feature for NZ some day (or already do), with current ages in brackets.

Hooker: Coltman (24), Harris (22), Marshall (21), Funnell (23), Taylor (23)
Prop: Tameifuna (22), Moody (25), Toomaga-Allen (23)
Lock: Retallick (22), Whitelock (25), Tuipulotu (21), Bird (23)
Loose Forward: Cane (22), Savea (20), Shields (23), Whitelock (23), Luatua (23)

Halfback: Kerr-Barlow (23), Smith (25), Perenara (22), Hall (22), Drummond (20
First Five: Cruden (25), Barrett (22), Taylor (25)
Midfield: Saili (23), Fekitoa (22), Crotty (25), Ngatai (23)
Outisde Back: Dagg (25), Savea (23), Piutau (22), Visinia (21), Nanai-Williams (24), Marshall (23)

We could field a team of players 23 years old and younger who would beat most international teams: Toomaga-Allen, Harris, Tameifuna, Retallick, Bird, Luatua, Cane, Whitelock, Perenara, Barrett, Savea, Saili, Fekitoa, Visinia, Piutau.

 

[ABs2011]

Well player attrition certainly is a factor

... hopefully we can get the Hooker situation sorted by the end of year too

Hooker really is the major concern. It would be great if Mealamu is fit for RWC2015 and I think Coles is good enough. Our backups are not the best IMHO. For me they look like they are a couple years away from the level I expect for an AB.

 

[ABs2011]

If we look even beyond 2015 we'll have a very nice player pool to pick from in most positions - these are just the promising guys under 25 who will likely feature for NZ some day (or already do), with current ages in brackets.

Hooker: Coltman (24), Harris (22), Marshall (21), Funnell (23), Taylor (23)
Prop: Tameifuna (22), Moody (25), Toomaga-Allen (23)
Lock: Retallick (22), Whitelock (25), Tuipulotu (21), Bird (23)
Loose Forward: Cane (22), Savea (20), Shields (23), Whitelock (23), Luatua (23)

Halfback: Kerr-Barlow (23), Smith (25), Perenara (22), Hall (22), Drummond (20
First Five: Cruden (25), Barrett (22), Taylor (25)
Midfield: Saili (23), Fekitoa (22), Crotty (25), Ngatai (23)
Outisde Back: Savea, (23), Piutau (22), Visinia (21), Nanai-Williams (24), Marshall (23)

We could field a team of players 23 years old and younger who would beat most international teams: Toomaga-Allen, Harris, Tameifuna, Retallick, Bird, Luatua, Cane, Whitelock, Perenara, Barrett, Savea, Saili, Fekitoa, Visinia, Piutau.

Mate, I've forgotten how young some of guys are. I cant believe Whitelock is so young. I feel like he's been around for ages as the rock of our tight five.

Crazy how good the likes of Retallick, Barrett, Piutau, Savea are already at such young ages!!

 

[Big Ewis]

hey I come here almost literally released from a parachute like a sac of feces, for I am very late on this but:
soooooo NZ are going to introduce FIVE new faces. That's not too typical for them, is it ? Does this mark some kind of moment in Hansen's career ?
Anyways, still a sac if shhit on the ground, I say that I'll be really looking forward to watching those youngsters play ball. If the All-Blacks pick em...dang, we'll have us some heck of a series this summer, eh guys ??
This as probably the main attraction, but Aussies Frenchies may tasting goofings too, also.

Oh and, after all this seriousness and professionalism I'll finish my post with humor: At least this time.....the All-Blacks get to.....cook....and eat...............what they want !!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAA !!! Get it ??!!!! Because before in London, food ehh...poisoning story blabber blabberblabberblabber, mahahaha....aoooooofff, this good jokes !

 

[Darwin]

hey I come here almost literally released from a parachute like a sac of feces, for I am very late on this but:
soooooo NZ are going to introduce FIVE new faces. That's not too typical for them, is it ? Does this mark some kind of moment in Hansen's career ?
Anyways, still a sac if shhit on the ground, I say that I'll be really looking forward to watching those youngsters play ball. If the All-Blacks pick em...dang, we'll have us some heck of a series this summer, eh guys ??
This as probably the main attraction, but Aussies Frenchies may tasting goofings too, also.

Oh and, after all this seriousness and professionalism I'll finish my post with humor: At least this time.....the All-Blacks get to.....cook....and eat...............what they want !!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAA !!! Get it ??!!!! Because before in London, food ehh...poisoning story blabber blabberblabberblabber, mahahaha....aoooooofff, this good jokes !

The first thing to note is that this is a training squad, not the actual squad. A number of the 'new' players may not actually be in the final squad, but are included so the AB's coaches can have a look at them.

Regardless introducing 5 new players is not at all a surprise from Hansen. Over the last 2 seasons he has introduced 21 new players to test rugby! When he took over he immediately introduced the likes of Retallick, Savea, Aaron Smith, Cane, Romano and Barrett, while last season introduced the likes of Luatua, Piutau, Crotty, Saili, Bird etc. I expect to see the number of new player introduced decrease now as we get closer to the world cup, but I certainly wouldn't consider Hansen conservative in terms of selection.....

 

[ABs2011]

Do you get the feeling that Hansen knows he is blessed with a team which allows to him experiment with a bit of "trial and error" if you will?

I mean the core team is just so good that even if they select a couple of players that turn out not so successful, the team will still win. On the other hand, some of these "trial" players turn out to be extraordinary successes, that in a more conservative coach/selecting regime, may not have got a chance for quite a while. Most notably for me this includes Retallick, Savea, Smith and Barrett. Could Tuipulotu or Fekitoa be the next BIG things for NZ rugby? They have a pretty good shot now anyway!!