[2014 Mid-Year Tests] New Zealand vs England (3rd Test)

[ratsapprentice]

Don't think anyone here is giving up on him I think people are just voicing the impression they are getting from how he's been handled.

I don't think it's that people want Eastmond hung out to dry as much as they think the management will hang him out to dry

Yep.

Burrell was always going to replace him fairly early on - they said as much before the game - but being dropped at half time suggests they lost confidence in him.

 

[Peat]

Yep.

Burrell was always going to replace him fairly early on - they said as much before the game - but being dropped at half time suggests they lost confidence in him.

I missed that bit. That's ridiculous.

Also, as I have clumsily tried to express already - I believe that Eastmond and Burns stuck very narrow in defence, I believe that was instructions, I believe that was because Farrell didn't trust either of them - and that when the system proved a liability, Eastmond was taken ashore. I wish to emphasise that at no point do I attach personal blame to Eastmond.

 

[nero]

As a kiwi I have to say that the English did bloody well over the series. The first half of this particular game was bleak, but the fact that they came out in the second half as strong as they did says a lot about the character of the team and their ability to adapt.
I remember it wasn't too long ago that we viewed Northern hemisphere teams as patsies. This has changed and for the betterment of the game.
I don't think the All Blacks will win the world cup, for various reasons (if I uttered this in NZ I'd be done for, so I'll just whisper it quietly…) I think that any number of teams have a fair shot including the English.

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

as a scot i must say england i was expecting to win atleast one off those games they had impressed me against the all blacks in the series and in previous years. i didn't expect a 3 win streak for new zealand at all.

 

[William18]

Today was a great day for us but it will mean squat next year. A World Cup playoff game is not going to look like that one. England won't let us score all those easy tries. You guys have done very well in this series. I think we have shown enough to suggest that we should still be favourites in 2015 but England are in with a huge chance.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I most certainly hope not. Whether or not he is the best we could do, he is the very epitome of little ambition, both in terms of his quality and what he would bring to England. Some of the other players could be genuinely good players by the time of the WC - Barritt will always be below average on the international stage because of all the limitations to his game. And we may as well not play our back three in attack if he and Tuilagi line up together.

At 10, I just hope Ford gives us something to shout about eventually.

Ford needs to buck up his big game play, if he plays like he did against Saints and sarries last year he doesn't stand much chance.


Daily Telegraph given Eastmond a 2, which is so harsh considering 36 and Burrell where just as bad imo in defence than Eastmond and Manu.

I think if Eastmond gets regular game time in the league then I feel he could become really good, his first test shows he has potential. He should look to Sale or Quins imo.

Well at least this game shows Youngs still has promise in a England shirt.

 

[McTallshort]

I read that, the reporter attacks Eastmond pretty badly out of order if you ask me.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Mind you were all forgetting the future English 12 Burgess.

 

[The Jones Boy]

As a kiwi I have to say that the English did bloody well over the series. The first half of this particular game was bleak, but the fact that they came out in the second half as strong as they did says a lot about the character of the team and their ability to adapt.
I remember it wasn't too long ago that we viewed Northern hemisphere teams as patsies. This has changed and for the betterment of the game.
I don't think the All Blacks will win the world cup, for various reasons (if I uttered this in NZ I'd be done for, so I'll just whisper it quietly…) I think that any number of teams have a fair shot including the English.

Agreed on all counts.
Let us all remember that this English squad is very young and they have a decade or more of International rugby ahead of them if they can stay fit.
They have just endured a very long season of club rugby punctuated with the 6 Nations Tournament.
Those blokes have played an awful lot of rugby.
We are in the same boat every year with our long winded end of the year tour in the northern hemisphere where our boys have played a huge amount of top level rugby and then they have to go around the world and shine every weekend without fault.
Here was an England squad that arrived in the world champions back yard knowing that they have a massive task ahead of them and I wonder if they let us off the hook in the first couple of tests because they are genuinely weary from the long season of top level rugby the squad has had to play.
It's a bloody big ask to expect players to finish a season that long and that intense, then to board a plane and go around the world and play at the top of their game week in and week out to semi-hostile crowds and environments.
Then, the Poms didn't have several first choice players to call upon in the first test (just as well for the AB's) and it can't have been easy trying to slot in for the second test.
These are real tangible problems that touring teams have to hurdle successfully to be able to launch a uniform assault on any hosting nation.

I'm impressed with the English because they are very young across the board and they are competitive in pretty much every area of the park.
They have depth in the front row where Webber looks like the find of the tour.
They have ridiculous depth at lock where Parling and Lawes stand out for me but Launchbury is close to them and young Slater who captained the victory over the Crusaders looked impressive. I'm deeply envious if England's depth at lock.
Ben Morgan improved his status on this campaign.
Danny Care is class and Ben Youngs showed today that good players benefit from a kick up the behind. He played well today.
Marland Yarde is a quality attacking force.
Cipriani was awesome against the Crusaders.
He looked really good when he came on in the first test for ten minutes after Burns had played well.
Cipriani looks the 'form' English no.10 at the moment. Good luck to the bloke he has put his head down and done the hard work required to bring out his natural talent.
Tuilagi needs to be paired with Barritt in the centres, the other blokes rate all waaaaay too young for centre, it's a position that requires old heads.
Mike Brown had an awful tour, he was a shadow of the guy from the 6 Nations, and I put this down to suffering from fatigue of a long season. He simply needs a rest. Foden is there if required and he's a quality player.
Where is Delon Armitage, he was excellent at fullback as well.
I would like to see England with a sniffer at no.7 a la Neil Back but that doesn't seem to be Lancasters game plan with the back row at this time...
England did themselves proud and they were unlucky not to get a test off the AB's, particularly the first one where Nigel Owen was truly awful.
Next year at home England will be tough and I can see the Saffers beating us in one semi final, and the Poms going into the final against them.
The RWC after that is where England will be favourites as their young fellas start to get 50-65 caps each throughout the squad, then watch out.
Thank you England for giving the AB's one helluva fright and waking them from their slumber in time to get ready for the dodgy convicts onslaught.

 

[Jaguares]

Cory Jane only weights 85 kg, right now. He's too slim at the present.

 

[TheSaffycen]

With the 12 debate it all really depends on what England need-
Twelvetrees- He is seen as another 10 and he tries to get the backline moving in the same way. I think he has been very so-so in an England shirt, sometimes he looks our answer others he seems out of his depth.
Eastmond- Really creative and danger with ball in hand but is he mentally strong enough ? Talent wise he is our best 12 but who knows if he will get more game time.
Barritt- By far our best defender, internationally class in the tackle. Attacking though is a problem and if we are looking at a more exspansive he isn't the 12 that we want. He does look better with a creative fly half but too many times he just runs straight into the defender when he should pass.

 

[Tony Manx]

Barritt- By far our best defender, internationally class in the tackle. Attacking though is a problem and if we are looking at a more exspansive he isn't the 12 that we want. He does look better with a creative fly half but too many times he just runs straight into the defender when he should pass.

You have just described Jamie whathisname the Welsh 12!!!

 

[ratsapprentice]

To be fair:

- Barritt is probably the best defensive centre in the world - genuinely can't think of anyone as reliable.

- Jamie Roberts is actually good at crashing the ball up.

 

[Patchey]

Just caught up on highlights. Wow.

From what I've seen we were sure and deserved the sparking we got. We seemed defensively narrow all game, indeed we've seemed quite narrow all your, and I agree that has to be something that was in the game plan. Andy Farrell has clearly cocked up there.

However, even if we had defended with enough width it seems like our players forgot to tackle so it's probably a bit academic.

Sigh. Just when we thought the days of wing embarrassed by NZ were over too!

 

[donmcdazzle]

From the NZ perspective I thought Cruden and Jane both answered their critics (myself included) from last week.

Cruden was really well organised I thought, took the right options. In comparison I thought the game got very sloppy when Barrett came on. He did a few nice things in broken play but didn't direct traffic very well off phase play. Our attack was a bit aimless.

For the English, didn't really show up in the first half and we took most of our chances. I thought Yarde had a good second half on attack, he had a couple of poor moments on defense in both halves. Ashton was rubbish, hard to imagine that's the best England have.

Burns suffered as a result of going backwards, but Cipriani added something when he came on. He is truly the only English 10 whose natural instinct it is to take the ball to the line. He has to start for you guys I reckon. If your pack gets beaten all the other 10s look clueless whereas Cipriani can still do something.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Ashton was rubbish, hard to imagine that's the best England have.

He's not anywhere near the best - it's maddening that he continues to be selected.

He is truly the only English 10 whose natural instinct it is to take the ball to the line. He has to start for you guys I reckon.

Not quite true - George Ford - who was second choice prior to being injured and missing this tour does it at least as much.

 

[The5thOfficial]

To be fair:

- Barritt is probably the best defensive centre in the world - genuinely can't think of anyone as reliable.

- Jamie Roberts is actually good at crashing the ball up.

Talking of which.... Wales had a good game today against SA. Last minute heartache again, but still! The 2 bins at same time in first half definitely didnt help.

 

[nzlizard]

I don't care about the world cup. They can have it for all I care.. It's a one off game and only one team can win it...

I care about us being consistently good enough to trade punches with the current top four.

I care about development, I care about going to the SH with a decent chance of taking a treat series.

The rest is just a nice distraction from the real task.

This is a weird statement to make, ask any player or administrator of a sport if winning a 3 game series or winning the world cup is the most important thing to them and we can guarantee the answer.

I don't see why the have to be mutually exclusive goals, I do agree that I have just as much interest in the AB's being the number 1 team for a long time as I do in them winning the world cup, however I wouldn't sacrifice one for the other, I think that if you work for one then by default you gain in the other.

The goal for England is to be good enough to win the world cup as that allows you to compete at top tier and win the mentality tough situations(this is something the AB's are good at), while also aiming to be a regular winner over the top SH nations as this provides you with the tools to win the WC.

There was a NZ belief quite a few years ago that the AB's lacked the mental fortitude to deliver at the world cup and when the roll of the ball went the other way we lacked the composure and belief that we could win, this team we have now delivers regularly based on believing that we can win those games now. Winning the WC in 2011 was built on your first goal of winning top tier games consistently, but winning the world cup provided us with the mental toughness that we saw in the 1st two tests of the England series, or the game against Ireland last year, the ability to just grind it out and never give up no matter how we play.

I have to admit I have been impressed with the England team in the series, however the 3rd game showed a few things

1. When the AB's gel they are god tier to watch
2. We have some pretty good depth in a few areas
3. We have some not so good depth in a few areas
4. We have built a good mental fortitude
5. The coaches know what they are doing, they put their faith in people and those people repay it
6. England look pretty damn good to be one path for next years world cup when they play - second half here

Today was a great day for us but it will mean squat next year. A World Cup playoff game is not going to look like that one. England won't let us score all those easy tries. You guys have done very well in this series. I think we have shown enough to suggest that we should still be favourites in 2015 but England are in with a huge chance.

Exactly, look at 2011 in pool play we dominated France and in the final we win 8-7, at the WC you deliver in the big games.

As for us being favourites I will reserve judgement until after I have seen some rugby championship games.

 

[Rich Taff]

Can't go back over 18 pages at this time of night, but I think Tuilagi is the most overrated player in world rugby at the moment.
He's pretty much a one trick pony going forwards (similar to Jamie Roberts), but his defense is absolutely shocking. His positioning is terrible, and he actually falls off tackles that a center 4stone lighter would make. (unlike Roberts who is a rock in defense).

Not sure what's happened to Mike Brown, but he's looked like a rabbit in the headlights this entire tour. Has gone from Englands best player in the 6n, to one of the worst.

Lawes was prominent by his lack of prominence, was he fit? Also, I think the season finally caught up on Robshaw. He's been outstanding on this tour until this game.

I even (slightly) felt sorry for Ashton at one point. He was being drawn in to try to make tackles because of the centres being out of position, and (being Ashton) was made to look like a headless chicken at some points.

Major improvement by England in the second half, after what must have been one hell of a team talk. One problem I saw was there were no leaders on the pitch, encouraging the team. They looked very similar to the team that fell apart vs Wales two years ago.

Still think England will be a major force in the world cup next year, but I'm really hoping they bring their 1st half form into the Wales game

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

England would have won a test against the All blacks this tour if we had selected Mallett instead of Lancaster. I blame the RFU and Andrew.


Just sayinn.

He's not anywhere near the best - it's maddening that he continues to be selected.



Not quite true - George Ford - who was second choice prior to being injured and missing this tour does it at least as much.

Yeh but Ford still has shown attacking fair in the big games.

Flood should have been played more imo, but then I may be biased a bit.