[2014 Mid-Year Tests] New Zealand vs England (2nd Test)

[j'nuh]

Here is something a lot of people don't know.

Missed tackles under Farrell don't always count as missed tackles if they force the opposition inside or to take make a bad decision.

The defensive system we employ, like Sarries, means we will misses tackles... Because well get wing filled on the press. So a guy missing three tackles is not as important in our defensive system as say a drift defence like NZ as long as the outcome has a positive defensive impact.

Even in such a defensive system, 79% is an atrocious success rate. Take away Parling, someone who certainly had a positive defensive impact, and it's 77%. Generally you're right. A few missed tackles are fine when they are followed up, especially in a blitz defence. But most of our missed tackles came from New Zealand simply running rings around us.

Which brings me onto the main problem - our kicking game killed us. Except where there is space in behind their back three, get it off the blumming park. We deserve our loss if only because we gave so much ball to their back three. The stats say it all - Ben Smith got his hands on the ball 30 times and managed 20 runs. That's just tactically inept from England.

 

[ollecrab]

Obviously i'm not happy with the loss but i think there were some massive positives in that game for England:

Three good Try's (i don't care about discussing the TMO decision), i said before the game the important thing here is England show the ability to score trys - and they scored three well worked trys. Mike Catt and Andy Farrell have got our backs playing better than any England team since 2002, they play with a lot of positivity and right on the tackle line - yes some of our 1 on 1, and 2vs1 execution is poor but that will be worked on in the next cycle.

I think we know we now have depth - it's a different thing to go to NZ for a 3 test series than playign them at home - it's not really in our DNA, we haven't really grown up on test series, so it's important that England came away with consistent performances over this series. Bar 20 minutes they've have done that so far and importantly we're all left knowing they can and will improve.

Set piece is solid, even shorne of front line players, and scrum is still a weapon for us - can you imagine Corbisiero against that front row?fingers crossed he can maintain some fitness over the next 15 months or so.

Yawn!!

 

[Patchey]

On the defensive front we missed Haskell massively. He had an 100% completion last week (13/13). I really think he should have been given the nod.

Bear in mind what went on today I and that the third test is a dead rubber id like to see something like:

1 Marler
2 Webber
3 Wilson
4 Launchbury
5 Lawes
6 Haskell
7 Robshaw
8 Morgan
9 Care
10 Burns
11 May
12 Twelvetrees
13 Tuilagi
14 Yarde
15 Brown
16 Hartley
17 Sinckler
18 Mullan
19 Attwood
20 Binny
21 Dickson
22 Farrell
23 Eastmond

I think that would strike a perfect balance between who has performed well in the last two games. Maybe a little harsh on Wood but hey ho. Of course this is all dream land but it would be nice.

 

[j'nuh]

Why are people dropping Parling? He was our best player today. Launchbury looked significantly worse.

 

[Tony Manx]

To me it was possible that it could've been touched down before held as there was no clear evidence or there was maybe it was only NZ tv showed.
If it's not 100% clear you can't overrule it. And both agreed hand under was AFTER but the initial touch down wasn't conclusive enough to overturn.

Hurrah.....They got it, I think they got it!!! Thanks MM!!

 

[Darwin]

To me it was possible that it could've been touched down before held as there was no clear evidence or there was maybe it was only NZ tv showed.
If it's not 100% clear you can't overrule it. And both agreed hand under was AFTER but the initial touch down wasn't conclusive enough to overturn.

Again, I don't think you are getting my point. I agree - if there was any doubt a try should have been awarded (given the question the referee asked). The problem was the conversation between the ref and the TMO. The ref thought it was clearly held up, and the TMO agreed, but decided for some unknown reason it should be a try anyway because it was an English hand holding the ball up!

 

[ratsapprentice]

I keep hearing "we need a distributor at 12" as a justification for not picking Eastmond over 36 from SCW.
How many holes did Billy put Burrell into today?

Not wanting to be harsh on 36 - because I'm a fan - but I share Greenwood's opinion that he just isn't consistent enough (that's not based solely on today).
Kyle's passing has been second to none - particularly against drift defenses.
Not convinced Burrell would work at 12 either.

Farrell was pretty anonymous on the whole.

Our kicking game was poor in terms of decision making and execution - they put the ball in our half and said "do something" and we did the wrong things, badly.
In fact we did the same things that led to the try last week - passing to tired, isolated forwards in our own half.

Yawn!!

If you're not going to positively contribute you might as well **** off - this isn't a very trollish forum.

 

[munstermuffin]

Again, I don't think you are getting my point. I agree - if there was any doubt a try should have been awarded (given the question the referee asked). The problem was the conversation between the ref and the TMO. The ref thought it was clearly held up, and the TMO agreed, but decided for some unknown reason it should be a try anyway because it was an English hand holding the ball up!

Again your missing the point that was on the pictures AFTER the initial hit to ground. He was referring to after and not initial dive so why was he wrong?
They couldn't not award when there's not 100% reason to not award try those are rules which it seems you don't understand

 

[Bada-Bing!]

The blind side confirmed he is actually blind by giving Cory Jane a 6. Id agree with that if he had an England shirt on maybe even a 7 or 8 added to Englands performance more than ours. Anybody that disputes that is just plain wack!

A Smith was nowhere near a 7 way to many mistakes in his game. I bet if we added up the percentage of turnovers between him and Jane it would account for near over 50% of our turnovers and lost chances.

You are the one who is blind; I quite clearly said at the top of the post that the scores were given by Steve James of the Daily Telegraph.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...822/New-Zealand-v-England-Player-ratings.html

Still waiting for an apology for calling me blind or your silence just confirms you are one of the worst NZ posters here that Smart Cookey was referring to as being embarrassed by.

 

[austingtir]

I couldnt care less what anyone else thinks of me its a messageboard with faceless names fool. If your going to get hung up on that I suggest you need to go hang out on a soccer forum.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

The blind side confirmed he is actually blind by giving Cory Jane a 6. Id agree with that if he had an England shirt on maybe even a 7 or 8 added to Englands performance more than ours. Anybody that disputes that is just plain wack!

A Smith was nowhere near a 7 way to many mistakes in his game. I bet if we added up the percentage of turnovers between him and Jane it would account for near over 50% of our turnovers and lost chances.

You are the one who is blind; I quite clearly said at the top of the post that the scores were given by Steve James of the Daily Telegraph.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...822/New-Zealand-v-England-Player-ratings.html

I couldnt care less what anyone else thinks of me its a messageboard with faceless names fool.

Yep, you just confirmed you are a total tool. :bravo:

 

[munstermuffin]

I couldnt care less what anyone else thinks of me its a messageboard with faceless names fool. If your going to get hung up on that I suggest you need to go hang out on a soccer forum.

Isn't that kettle calling pot black? You calling him fool? If you get angry maybe take timeou

 

[ollecrab]

I keep hearing "we need a distributor at 12" as a justification for not picking Eastmond over 36 from SCW.
How many holes did Billy put Burrell into today?

Not wanting to be harsh on 36 - because I'm a fan - but I share Greenwood's opinion that he just isn't consistent enough (that's not based solely on today).
Kyle's passing has been second to none - particularly against drift defenses.
Not convinced Burrell would work at 12 either.

Farrell was pretty anonymous on the whole.

Our kicking game was poor in terms of decision making and execution - they put the ball in our half and said "do something" and we did the wrong things, badly.
In fact we did the same things that led to the try last week - passing to tired, isolated forwards in our own half.



If you're not going to positively contribute you might as well **** off - this isn't a very trollish forum.

Sorry buddy...... YAWN!!!!!!!!!!

 

[goodNumber10]

I keep hearing "we need a distributor at 12" as a justification for not picking Eastmond over 36 from SCW.
How many holes did Billy put Burrell into today?

Not wanting to be harsh on 36 - because I'm a fan - but I share Greenwood's opinion that he just isn't consistent enough (that's not based solely on today).
Kyle's passing has been second to none - particularly against drift defenses.
Not convinced Burrell would work at 12 either.

Farrell was pretty anonymous on the whole.

Our kicking game was poor in terms of decision making and execution - they put the ball in our half and said "do something" and we did the wrong things, badly.
In fact we did the same things that led to the try last week - passing to tired, isolated forwards in our own half.

Age with nearly all of that, and fair points about 36 vs eastmond.

Don't think the half back moving was awful. I thought Farrell went well.

 

[ratsapprentice]

On the Eastmond thing - in the NH we always laud the SH for doing the basics well.
Ignore Kyle's running thread for a moment.... what does he do? He commits a defender and gives a pass that puts whoever is outside him in the best position to make ground.
Those are the simple things done consistently well - the only times I've seen him struggle to do that are when the opposition has a very intense blitz defense.

I don't mean to say that Farrell had a bad game per se... but it was all a bit meh.
The yellow was very harsh though - that was a maul all day long.

Yarde needs to work on his kicking and his defensive positioning - although the latter is possible down to inexperience than intellect.

 

[William18]

To me it was possible that it could've been touched down before held as there was no clear evidence or there was maybe it was only NZ tv showed.
If it's not 100% clear you can't overrule it. And both agreed hand under was AFTER but the initial touch down wasn't conclusive enough to overturn.

But the point is that it was the Assistant Referee who was miles away who said he thought the ball was grounded. He said that when he was standing ages away. If the correct question: try or no try was asked then it would have been no try. The problem was that the wrong question was asked. I think regardless of the question it should have been no try but the question was a huge mistake.

 

[Patchey]

There be much trolling today...




Eastmond has to be involved in some way next week, I'd just like to give Twelvetrees one last shot and let him try and link up with Manu at 13. They've never really been allowed to play together, for various reasons, and I'd like to see what he can do with the big man outside him. Eastmond can cover 12, the wing and at a push 15 from the bench. Give him a solid twenty minutes at the end of the game having started 36 would be my idea.

 

[barkinghooker]

I hope Ashton gets a starting place with Eastmond next week. I think Brown needs a rest and Manu back in the middle. Abs were awesome but England never really got into gear.

 

[Patchey]

Out of interest GN10, what did you like about Farrell today?

I hope Ashton gets a starting place with Eastmond next week. I think Brown needs a rest and Manu back in the middle. Abs were awesome but England never really got into gear.

But why Ashton? What has he done to displace Yarde or May?

Including this game he has 38 caps and 19 tries. That sounds very impressive on paper but take a closer look. Of those 19 tries, only four have come against teams in the top three of the IRB rankings (two against Australia and, now, two against NZ). Of the rest he has scored against Argentina once (and that try should have been disallowed because he slid into touch, under no pressure, without grounding it), twice against Scotland, once against Wales, four times (in one game) against Italy, once against Georgia and once against Romania. To me that is NOT the try scoring record of a great winger, but rather one who has scored the majority of his points against much weaker teams. He also defends like a child and has a mostly poor kicking game.

Just imagine hime spending eighty minutes opposite Julian Savea. If you're comfortable with that then fine, but I can't think of a scenario where him being picked to start next week goes well.

 

[LittleGuy]

Steve James's ratings from the Daily Telegraph here in the UK:

Did he just go through the list and type 7 or 8 for all Kiwi's and 5 or 6 for all English players?