[2014 Mid-Year Tests] New Zealand vs England (2nd Test)

[goodNumber10]

Owen Farrell had an excellent game. His passing was sharp. His defence solid and kicking pretty spot on. How he gets a 5 is amazing. He was better than Crudeness that's for sure.

 

[donmcdazzle]

For England, is Farrell actually seen as better than Burns? He got bumped by Nonu a few times, didn't rate his defence at all. And he doesn't seem to get the back line going as well as the two from last week. I suppose it is hard for me to judge as I'm only seeing them one game at a time rather than for a while season.

Like if you compared the midfield line ups you would definitely think this weeks guys were the second choice pairing compared to last week. That's the first time I've even Burrell and he didn't do much to impress me. 12trees made one nice early break but was quiet from then on. You would have to think Eastmond and Tuilagi come back for the third test.

the looses were a bit quieter this week too, not as dynamic. Vunipola is a handful but he doesn't look like he can play 80 mins on attack and defence, looks like a 20 min offensive specialist to me.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

****ing hell is he?! That'll be a lottery then he is a terrible ref.

Yes, they rotate the refs. Owens, reffed the first test and was touch judge this week; Peyper was touch judge last week, reffed this test. Garces was touch judge for the first two weeks; will ref next week.

George Ayoub looks like he will be TMO for the third time, next week.

 

[austingtir]

The blind side confirmed he is actually blind by giving Cory Jane a 6. Id agree with that if he had an England shirt on maybe even a 7 or 8 added to Englands performance more than ours. Anybody that disputes that is just plain wack!

A Smith was nowhere near a 7 way to many mistakes in his game. I bet if we added up the percentage of turnovers between him and Jane it would account for near over 50% of our turnovers and lost chances.

 

[Darwin]

Right, a few more thoughts on the AB's. The tight-forwards were a lot better this weekend. Both the scrums and lineouts functioned well, and I enjoyed the driving mauls we were using to suck in the English defenders. I felt we weren't committing enough numbers to the breakdown though - the ball we were getting back was a bit slow at times, and Aaron Smith wasn't given a lot of protection.

On the players:
- Dane Coles had an excellent game in my opinion. He was the pick of the NZ forwards for me. He did his core roles well, his line-speed on defense was impressive, and we got to see a bit of his ball running / handling skills.
- Woodcock showed a few signs of life
- Both locks were very good - it was what I expect though from a world class combination.
- Overall I thought the loose-forward trio was pretty average. Messam's running game featured a bit more this week, but he was pretty quiet on defense. McCaw was prominent at the breakdown, but did miss a crucial tackle, and while Kaino was powerful with ball in hand it is still obvious he is much better suited to the 6 jersey.
- After being our best player last weekend, Aaron Smith was poor this week. He didn't get a lot of protection, but his kicking game was pretty bad, he was caught ball watching a couple of times, and blew a try by going himself rather than passing to Messam (though he did make a good break initially). He is still vital to the AB's game-plan (so should be starting next week), but he still needs to improve his consistency...
-Cruden was average again. He did really well in the Ben Smith try, but apart from that offered nothing. Barrett added a lot when he came on, and hopefully will be starting next week.
- Nonu was much better this week (though the silly penalty he conceded was well.... silly...). He's still dangerous when he attacks the line.
- Conrad Smith is still the best centre in the world. He made some crucial tackles, and the lines he ran on attack were superb.
- Cory Jane had an absolute shocker. I have never seen him play half that bad! Apparently he conceded 7 turnovers this match. The big problem is that we don't really have anyone to replace him (with Piutau out injured)...
- Savea looked good with ball in hand - I just wish we had given him a bit more ball! I'm not sure where he was hiding at times - often we has Kaino or Messam standing out on his wing....
- Ben Smith. Yeah. That is why he should play at fullback every week (and should have been playing at fullback for the AB's these last few years). Unfortunately you just know Dagg will be back at fullback the moment he is even remotely fit...

 

[donmcdazzle]

The blind side confirmed he is actually blind by giving Cory Jane a 6. Id agree with that if he had an England shirt on maybe even a 7 or 8 added to Englands performance more than ours. Anybody that disputes that is just plain wack!

A Smith was nowhere near a 7 way to many mistakes in his game. I bet if we added up the percentage of turnovers between him and Jane it would account for near over 50% of our turnovers and lost chances.

Why do you hate Aaron Smith so much? He was one of our best last week and you didn't say anything. This week he miscued a couple of box kicks but other than that had a decent game. He made a brilliant break, but more importantly, he gets our game going so fast when we get in a roll. You clearly don't appreciate how fast he is at getting to the ball and then clearing it quickly and accurately.

whats the halfbacks most important job? To supply good ball. He does that so much better than anyone else. Wake up.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

The blind side confirmed he is actually blind by giving Cory Jane a 6. Id agree with that if he had an England shirt on maybe even a 7 or 8 added to Englands performance more than ours. Anybody that disputes that is just plain wack!

A Smith was nowhere near a 7 way to many mistakes in his game. I bet if we added up the percentage of turnovers between him and Jane it would account for near over 50% of our turnovers and lost chances.

You are the one who is blind; I quite clearly said at the top of the post that the scores were given by Steve James of the Daily Telegraph.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...822/New-Zealand-v-England-Player-ratings.html

 

[austingtir]

Why do you hate Aaron Smith so much? He was one of our best last week and you didn't say anything. This week he miscued a couple of box kicks but other than that had a decent game. He made a brilliant break, but more importantly, he gets our game going so fast when we get in a roll. You clearly don't appreciate how fast he is at getting to the ball and then clearing it quickly and accurately.

whats the halfbacks most important job? To supply good ball. He does that so much better than anyone else. Wake up.

You watched a different game to me the kick that went straight up in the air.... the kick that went out on the full..... the atleast three times fumbing the ball around the base of the ruck.... the atleast 3 times england players came through and he nearly lost the ball or did turn it over..... The two or three charge downs.... he was terrible.....
If you want to dispute this further I will re-watch the game and put times on every mistake he made.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Darwin and I will be accepting apology cash from now on, we've been advocating "smith for 15" for the last four years!...feeling pretty smug

 

[William18]

Those ratings are clearly a joke. He just gave all our forwards a 7! Too lazy to rate them, I think.

 

[austingtir]

Darwin and I will be accepting apology cash from now on, we've been advocating "smith for 15" for the last four years!...feeling pretty smug

No me to, but im ****** off this should of happened two years ago. Even Hansen seemed embarrassed about it after the match in an interview!

 

[j'nuh]

Lancaster has now been in charge for roughly 30 games. Can anyone remember in that time a single game where a winger put in a great attacking performance and was one of our best three players on the field? Nearly 60 caps between the wingers that have been played, and a multitude of wingers chosen - Ashton, Strettle, May, Yarde, Tuilagi, Foden, Nowell, Sharples (most of these are players that can and will attack for their clubs and score regular tries) - and yet I honestly for the life of me cannot remember a truly good winger performance, in attack, under Lancaster. There is a point where the pattern repeats so much, that you begin to think that it isn't the players that are the problem. The fact that our best attacker, Tuilagi, played his quietest game in attack for as long as I remember, only goes to give more credence to this. I think Lancaster and his coaching team seriously needs to look at the way they employ their wingers in attack. I have a lot of faith in May and Yarde, but very little in the coaching team to make the most of these players.

I originally thought that Twelvetrees should have come straight back. I was wrong. Far too many mistakes. I'd put it down to rustiness/being rushed back, and faintly pencil him in for the Autumn, but Eastmond has to start next week. Burrell was anonymous and must make way for Tuilagi.

Parling was the best player on the field. Two great performances. Absolutely deserves to start next week.

Defence needs to be improved. Yarde missed 4 tackles. Wilson missed 5. Farrell, Burrell and Twelvetrees 3 each. Various others missed a couple each. I put most of this down to a great attacking performance by NZ in the second half, and a lot of this down to poor game management. We kicked farrrrrrrr too much to their back three. Haskell and Lawes back in for Wood and Launchbury

After last week's performance, Burns has the right to feel peeved for being an unused sub.

Tuilagi back to 13. Moving him to the wing was not only stupid, but just went further to demonstrate how poorly the wingers fit into our attacking pattern. Our best attacking player reduced to a mannequin on the wing. Right now, Lancaster has played Nowell, Foden, Strettle, Ashton, Yarde, May and Tuilagi on the wings, and I cannot remember there being even one attacking performance in the roughly 30 games since Lancaster took over. Think about it - 60 caps, and we are still waiting for one . There's a point where the pattern repeats so much, that you start to wonder where the problem is. Savea showed what we are missing in a wing that can attack.

My squad:

1. Marler
2. Webber
3. Wilson
4. Lawes
5. Parling
6. Haskell
7. Robshaw
8. Vunipola
9. Care
10. Farrell
11. May
12. Eastmond
13. Tuilagi
14. Yarde
15. Brown

16. Hartley
17. Mullan
18. Sinckler
19. Launchbury
20. Attwood
21. Morgan
22. Youngs
23. Burns

Gone with a 6-2 bench, with physical replacements for the pack. If we are to win, it's through the pack. Changes in the backline would be negative changes just to keep up with the AB backline, who are running rings around us. If we are to win, it has to be up front, and it demands dominating the ABs physically. Launchbury, Attwood and Morgan from the bench is a lot of firepower.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Those ratings are clearly a joke. He just gave all our forwards a 7! Too lazy to rate them, I think.

The ABs forwards did all their best tight work in the 2nd half to give the likes of Bin Smuth, the midfield centre pairing and Savea the platform to wreak havoc and score 8s and 9s. I don't think there was a Stand out performance in the forwards in the mould of Read got to last year to deserve a an 8 or 9. But as a collective the AB forwards in that 2nd half were an 8/10.

All subjective of course.

 

[donmcdazzle]

You watched a different game to me the kick that went straight up in the air.... the kick that went out on the full..... the atleast three times fumbing the ball around the base of the ruck.... the atleast 3 times england players came through and he nearly lost the ball or did turn it over..... The two or three charge downs.... he was terrible.....
If you want to dispute this further I will re-watch the game and put times on every mistake he made.

Im im not saying he had his best game. The charge downs weren't ideal true.

but answer me this - what's the most important thing for a half back? (Especially an AB one given our game plan). If your answer is anything other than delivering good fast ball, then I'll stop debating it with you.

 

[goodNumber10]

Lancaster has now been in charge for roughly 30 games. Can anyone remember in that time a single game where a winger put in a great attacking performance and was one of our best three players on the field? Nearly 60 caps between the wingers that have been played, and a multitude of wingers chosen - Ashton, Strettle, May, Yarde, Tuilagi, Foden, Nowell, Sharples (most of these are players that can and will attack for their clubs and score regular tries) - and yet I honestly for the life of me cannot remember a truly good winger performance, in attack, under Lancaster. There is a point where the pattern repeats so much, that you begin to think that it isn't the players that are the problem. The fact that our best attacker, Tuilagi, played his quietest game in attack for as long as I remember, only goes to give more credence to this. I think Lancaster and his coaching team seriously needs to look at the way they employ their wingers in attack. I have a lot of faith in May and Yarde, but very little in the coaching team to make the most of these players.

I originally thought that Twelvetrees should have come straight back. I was wrong. Far too many mistakes. I'd put it down to rustiness/being rushed back, and faintly pencil him in for the Autumn, but Eastmond has to start next week. Burrell was anonymous and must make way for Tuilagi.

Parling was the best player on the field. Two great performances. Absolutely deserves to start next week.

Defence needs to be improved. Yarde missed 4 tackles. Wilson missed 5. Farrell, Burrell and Twelvetrees 3 each. Various others missed a couple each. I put most of this down to a great attacking performance by NZ in the second half, and a lot of this down to poor game management. We kicked farrrrrrrr too much to their back three. Haskell and Lawes back in for Wood and Launchbury

After last week's performance, Burns has the right to feel peeved for being an unused sub.

Tuilagi back to 13. Moving him to the wing was not only stupid, but just went further to demonstrate how poorly the wingers fit into our attacking pattern. Our best attacking player reduced to a mannequin on the wing. Right now, Lancaster has played Nowell, Foden, Strettle, Ashton, Yarde, May and Tuilagi on the wings, and I cannot remember there being even one attacking performance in the roughly 30 games since Lancaster took over. Think about it - 60 caps, and we are still waiting for one . There's a point where the pattern repeats so much, that you start to wonder where the problem is. Savea showed what we are missing in a wing that can attack.

My squad:

1. Marler
2. Webber
3. Wilson
4. Lawes
5. Parling
6. Haskell
7. Robshaw
8. Vunipola
9. Care
10. Farrell
11. May
12. Eastmond
13. Tuilagi
14. Yarde
15. Brown

16. Hartley
17. Mullan
18. Sinckler
19. Launchbury
20. Attwood
21. Morgan
22. Youngs
23. Burns

Gone with a 6-2 bench, with physical replacements for the pack. If we are to win, it's through the pack. Changes in the backline would be negative changes just to keep up with the AB backline, who are running rings around us. If we are to win, it has to be up front, and it demands dominating the ABs physically. Launchbury, Attwood and Morgan from the bench is a lot of firepower.

Here is something a lot of people don't know.

Missed tackles under Farrell don't always count as missed tackles if they force the opposition inside or to take make a bad decision.

The defensive system we employ, like Sarries, means we will misses tackles... Because well get wing filled on the press. So a guy missing three tackles is not as important in our defensive system as say a drift defence like NZ as long as the outcome has a positive defensive impact.

 

[donmcdazzle]

^true, that rush defence does push people back inside, but Farrell got clean bumped off a few times. I thought he was pretty average. Burns looked better last week.

 

[Tony Manx]

Greenwood team....with help from Lynagh!

Marley (sorry Marler!!), Hartley, Wilson, Launchbury, Lawes, Wood, Robshaw, Vunipola
Care, Farrell, Yarde, Burrell, Tuilagi, Ashton, Brown

I would agree other than I would have Morgan and not Billy...............

 

[austingtir]

Im im not saying he had his best game. The charge downs weren't ideal true.

but answer me this - what's the most important thing for a half back? (Especially an AB one given our game plan). If your answer is anything other than delivering good fast ball, then I'll stop debating it with you.

All I will say is its time to start Peranara and get his confidence up in the next match. Did you see the pride he had during the national Anthem? This guy needs to be given a chance. He had a shocking year so far at super rugby level but I feel with TKB also being crap we need to take a punt on this guy to turn up at test level. After all if Hansen was selecting on Form Ellis probably should of played in this game.

 

[William18]

The ABs forwards did all their best tight work in the 2nd half to give the likes of Bin Smuth, the midfield centre pairing and Savea the platform to wreak havoc and score 8s and 9s. I don't think there was a Stand out performance in the forwards in the mould of Read got to last year to deserve a an 8 or 9. But as a collective the AB forwards in that 2nd half were an 8/10.

All subjective of course.

Sure. I thought Retallick and Whitelock were both stand outs and McCaw was a bit average (although I don't think that means he is finished).

 

[munstermuffin]

I was aware what question the ref asked. It means the ref (/touch judge?) thought he saw a grounding. That meant a try would be awarded unless the TMO saw a reason not to award it. However there was a clear reason not to award the try - it was held up! Both the ref and the TMO saw this, but the TMO for some thought it should be a try because it was an English arm under the ball (which makes no sense what-so-ever!).

To me it was possible that it could've been touched down before held as there was no clear evidence or there was maybe it was only NZ tv showed.
If it's not 100% clear you can't overrule it. And both agreed hand under was AFTER but the initial touch down wasn't conclusive enough to overturn.