[2014 Mid-Year Tests] Australia

[Tahman15]

so i've done it in the other threads this is what i think will be the aussies XV for the games

1.) Benn Robinson
2.) Stephen Moore
3.) Sekope Kepu
4.) Rob Simmons
5.) James Horwill (c)
6.) Scott Fardy
7.) Michael Hooper
8.) Ben McCalman
9.) Nic White
10.) Quade Cooper
11.) Nick Cummins
12.) Matt Toomua
13.) Adam Ashley-Cooper/Tevita Kuridrani
14.) Joe Tomane/Alofa Alofa
15.) Israel Folau

I've got a feeling Robinson won't start or even make the 23. He really hasn't be that good this season where Slipper has, plus Sio could get the bench spot as he's been awesome and he's young. We then come to the 9 and 13 debate and I've already expressed my opinion but it seems that whoever Link goes with will probably do a good job so I'm not that worried.

 

[IRISH RUGBY MAN]

Tomane out of series. I'd say wings will be Cummins and Ashley-Cooper now

 

[Da Grappla]

I guess it is pretty awesome to see Australia can still come to Europe and make it 4.5/5 last tour (given the controversy in Twickers, I'll call that .5 their way) and can still hold the third world spot in Union when they have so many other very, very popular sports in the nation, some of which are very similar to union and would attract all the potential studs. They're easily the best at league, and still manage a superb Union side. Props to them.

It's awesome at its highest point. From time to time, they just seem to struggle due to injuries or movements to Europe...and suddenly, the team is just rebuilt as superb handling skilled, strong and powerful players get into the squad. Within a season, nobody actually misses (not so much) Pocock or Giteau or who ever is out.

Perhaps down under there, top class rugby players are hanging from some tree we lack in Europe.

 

[Big Ewis]

It's awesome at its highest point. From time to time, they just seem to struggle due to injuries or movements to Europe...and suddenly, the team is just rebuilt as superb handling skilled, strong and powerful players get into the squad. Within a season, nobody actually misses (not so much) Pocock or Giteau or who ever is out.

Perhaps down under there, top class rugby players are hanging from some tree we lack in Europe.

true. I just wish they'd beat the AB's more often though...it's become such a rarity in recent years and they don't look anywhere close of achieving it in the near future...unless.....
Good players are always going to appear for them though, but missing Giteau all those years, as an example, was definitely a negative for them. It would be for any team, even if there's a worthy heir behind to back him up. And yes there's Hooper now, but who the hell can replace David Pocock at the breakdown ? Pocock's the kind of guy who's going to turn the ball over when the enemy is 3meters away from your posts all by himself against 3 guys. They have clearly missed him this whole time...

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3824_9306966,00.html

Joe Tomane out.

 

[Big Ewis]

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3824_9306966,00.html

Joe Tomane out.

fuuuuck....the more it goes, the more injuries will pile up THE WEEK RIGHT BEFORE THE TESTS...for both sides.....was looking forward to seeing a full Aussie backline (well not really actually !...).
Really looking forward to those tests, even with the Saint-André circus coming to town....and June is approaching with giant steps.

 

[Jaguares]

Michael Hooper next Wallaby captain?

With the departure of current skipper Ben Mowen to France at the end of this year, Waratahs skipper Dave Dennis has called for young flanker Michael Hooper to be propelled into the captaincy role. Dennis named the Wallabies openside above other favourites Stephen Moore and past captains James Horwill and Will Genia.

“Not only in the way he’s performed, but the way he’s supported me in my role this year as vice-captain is fantastic. He’s only young and he is going to be around for a long time," Dennis said of Hooper, the winner of the 2013 John Eales Medallist:

http://m.dailytelegraph.com.au/spor...ail&utm_term=0_53e97ccfb4-7fd6c919ed-63589685

It's awesome at its highest point. From time to time, they just seem to struggle due to injuries or movements to Europe...and suddenly, the team is just rebuilt as superb handling skilled, strong and powerful players get into the squad. Within a season, nobody actually misses (not so much) Pocock or Giteau or who ever is out.

Perhaps down under there, top class rugby players are hanging from some tree we lack in Europe.

Yeah, Australia in rugby is like Brazil or Argentina in football/soccer. No matter what happens, they always make excellent players. France now has more professional teams, more money and a much larger audience but despite that Australia still doing better players.

fuuuuck....the more it goes, the more injuries will pile up THE WEEK RIGHT BEFORE THE TESTS...for both sides.....was looking forward to seeing a full Aussie backline (well not really actually !...).
Really looking forward to those tests, even with the Saint-André circus coming to town....and June is approaching with giant steps.

ARU still has interesting backs that could complicate the French defense such as Robbie Coleman, Alofa Alofa or Jason Woodward. Also, remember that Henry Speight will be available for the next competition.

Another point, because ARU has so many good centres like: Matt Toomua, Leali'ifano, Pat McCabe, Kurtley Beale, AAC and Kuridrani, McKenzie can move some of them to the wings: AAC or even Kuridrani IMO.

I'm not sure about Jason Woodward is or not available for the wallaby jersey.

 

[Tahman15]

Tomane was an outsider who probably wasn't going to start so us Aussies are not that worried. It's interesting that you say how we keep churning out good players almost from nowhere. In the past 3 years the Wallabies team has been vastly different with hardly any stability yet we're still one of the top teams in the world. Here are the teams from the June tests in 2012, 13 and the presumed 14 team, they are very different:

2012 vs Scotland
15.Luke Morahan, 14.Joe Tomane, 13.Anthony Faingaa, 12.Mike Harris, 11.Digby Ioane, 10.Berrick Barnes, 9.Will Genia, 8.Scott Higginbotham, 7.David Pocock, 6.Dave Dennis, 5.Nathan Sharpe, 4.Sitaleki Timani, 3.Dan Palmer, 2.Stephen Moore, 1.James Slipper

B and I Lions 1st test
15. Barnes, 14. Folau, 13. AAC, 12. Leiliifano, 11. Ioane, 10, OConnor 9. Genia 8. Palu, 7, Hooper 6. Mowen, 5. Douglas, 4. Horwill, 3. Alexander 2. Moore 1. Robinson

Predicted team to verse France
1. Slipper
2. Moore
3. Alexander
4. Simmons
5. Horwill
6. Fardy
7. Hooper
8. McCalman
9. Genia
10. Cooper
11. Cummins
12. Toomua
13. Kurindrani
14. AAC
15. Folau

 

[Da Grappla]

Yes, they're hardly similar. Only a few names keep the place from one to another.

I just don't know how you make it...but you make it I think you have a sport focused population and good wheather conditions all year round, so the chances of a guy not finding his mainstream or niche sport are minimal.

Cummins is another name on the rise.

 

[Big Ewis]

ARU still has interesting backs that could complicate the French defense such as Robbie Coleman, Alofa Alofa or Jason Woodward. Also, remember that Henry Speight will be available for the next competition.

that's what I meant...I'm afraid to see them too on-form.
"was looking forward to seeing a full Aussie backline (well not really actually !...)."

 

[Jaguares]

Another example how NRL help to ARU indirectly:

http://www.therugbyforum.com/threads/33224-A-new-GIANT-winger-for-Waratahs-Taqele-Naiyaravaro-(MASS)

This guy failed in joining to NRL, after that, he was picked by Union and now he could play for Waratahs. Then if you have the biggest Rugby League Competition in the world in your country has good and bad things, they can steal good players but you can also provide you good players. This is something that no other country have, perhaps NZ or England, but for example Argentina and South Africa don't have a strong Rugby League Competition where pick good players.

I'm not sure about this guy, he could be the new Aussie Lomu or just a piece of sh** but is an example how NRL help to ARU indirectly

 

[welshglory]

I have another question. ARU needs big backrowers?? I'm not sure. I think they have a good backrow at the moment with Hooper, Scott Higginbotham, Palu, McCalman and others. The problem of the Union in Australia is different and has always been the same: the front row.

I think like you, IRB should to help the game in Australia, it's too important for our sport. We can't afford to lose as important market. That's where the IRB should look, not in new markets like China or USA, they are bigger, of course but we can't look new markets while we are losing one of our most important markets. IRB must help the ARU in their fight against the AFL and NRL.

The struggle in Australia is easier than in USA or China, where we have a tiny chance to grow our sport. The IRB should attract the Australian market to the Union. Whether to change the rules for a more dynamic game, do it. If you put money in the ARU, do it. We can't lose this country if we want continue to grow our sport.

Healthy Union in Australia, is equal to a stronger global sport. Damn! Australia is one of the most important countries of the world, we should take advantage of that in favor of the Union. Must be a central topic in IRB should stop putting money into countries with no tradition and help the ARU.

Hell yes Australia need big backrowers and centres. They lack depth! It never hurts to have more options, especially to compliment your technically gifted players which Australia has found a way to excellently produce still.
Higginbotham will be a world class player sooner rather than later, he is phenomenal.
Palu has never lived up to his giant potential and is always injured.
McCalman is starting to show something at super rugby level now but not really enough to say if he's going to make an impact international level, small and lacks aggression.
Who are others? Jake Schatz (lol)?, Mowen who has no aggression whatsoever but would have been good with an explosive 8? Dave Dennis lmao? Ed Quirk? See the pattern here?
They have a plethora of openside flankers, there's no problem there whatsoever.
Plus if they have more of these types of players then more of there teams will be successful and then maybe they can have more teams and build their market base etc...

Same for centres...

They're never going to have a front row culture. It just ain't going to happen. The country has moulded so that part of sport isn't respected at all in any way... at all. As long as they can keep parity then that's all they need to launch a platform for the rest of the team. They have everything else needed.

Again before someone says some comment about Wales i have nothing against Australian rugby. I'm trying to constructively criticise them, i want to see them really challenge NZ.

I'm not sure if i entirely agree with you about the IRB supporting Australia. I think the ARU has been there own worst enemy just like the WRU, SRU, Italian RFU, RFU (see the pattern here!!!). I think they need to help themselves and Sanzar does as well otherwise Australia should tell them to shove it because SA and NZ won't make it on there own, even if they do have a Spanish side and a Singaporean one lol

Edit:
I think the main reason that NZ dominates Aus is because they attract the best athletes. Australia has traditionally actually had better skills than NZ but now that professionalism has really set in and the ARU hasn't kept up with the times and tried to adapt they're not attracting enough top level athletes to supplement/compliment their technical players as i said earlier. This is what NZ is able to do.

 

[Shaggy]

Hell yes Australia need big backrowers and centres. They lack depth! It never hurts to have more options, especially to compliment your technically gifted players which Australia has found a way to excellently produce still.
Higginbotham will be a world class player sooner rather than later, he is phenomenal.
Palu has never lived up to his giant potential and is always injured.
McCalman is starting to show something at super rugby level now but not really enough to say if he's going to make an impact international level, small and lacks aggression.
Who are others? Jake Schatz (lol)?, Mowen who has no aggression whatsoever but would have been good with an explosive 8? Dave Dennis lmao? Ed Quirk? See the pattern here?
They have a plethora of openside flankers, there's no problem there whatsoever.
Plus if they have more of these types of players then more of there teams will be successful and then maybe they can have more teams and build their market base etc...

Same for centres...

They're never going to have a front row culture. It just ain't going to happen. The country has moulded so that part of sport isn't respected at all in any way... at all. As long as they can keep parity then that's all they need to launch a platform for the rest of the team. They have everything else needed.

Again before someone says some comment about Wales i have nothing against Australian rugby. I'm trying to constructively criticise them, i want to see them really challenge NZ.

I'm not sure if i entirely agree with you about the IRB supporting Australia. I think the ARU has been there own worst enemy just like the WRU, SRU, Italian RFU, RFU (see the pattern here!!!). I think they need to help themselves and Sanzar does as well otherwise Australia should tell them to shove it because SA and NZ won't make it on there own, even if they do have a Spanish side and a Singaporean one lol

Edit:
I think the main reason that NZ dominates Aus is because they attract the best athletes. Australia has traditionally actually had better skills than NZ but now that professionalism has really set in and the ARU hasn't kept up with the times and tried to adapt they're not attracting enough top level athletes to supplement/compliment their technical players as i said earlier. This is what NZ is able to do.

I think the reason why they lack size and depth in some areas, is that Australian Rugby still has the blinkers on when it comes to identifying and capturing young talent. They still look to the traditional East Sydney based teams and the private schools for their talent, when they should look to the outer west suburbs as well. That's where a lot of the Pacific Islanders live, many are Australian born, so no residency playing issues there.

In contrast, the Rugby League scouts have no problems identifying and grabbing talent from that area. The league clubs even send their players on school visits etc.

To me, it just makes sense to develop the talent you have in your own back yard, rather than "buy" rugby league players, or grab players from New Zealand or South Africa

 

[RoosTah]

In contrast, the Rugby League scouts have no problems identifying and grabbing talent from that area. The league clubs even send their players on school visits etc.

To me, it just makes sense to develop the talent you have in your own back yard, rather than "buy" rugby league players, or grab players from New Zealand or South Africa

Rugby League is just all round much more intelligently run in Australia than Union... it annoys the hell out of me, but the ARU have kept the union base here far too narrow for our own good.

 

[Shaggy]

Rugby League is just all round much more intelligently run in Australia than Union... it annoys the hell out of me, but the ARU have kept the union base here far too narrow for our own good.

Yes, they've been running a professional game for a lot longer too, which helps of course ... I just think (as an outsider looking in), that there's a lot of maintaining the traditional power bases at all costs, type mentality. I love tradition in Rugby, but the power that some of the older clubs have in Australia, and the failure to adapt for the greater good of Australian rugby as a whole, is an extra headache that the ARU don't need.

... I'm looking at the last attempt at a domestic competition as an example, where the concept and competition itself wasn't really supported ... anyway, I'm way off topic again

 

[RoosTah]

Yes, they've been running a professional game for a lot longer too, which helps of course ... I just think (as an outsider looking in), that there's a lot of maintaining the traditional power bases at all costs, type mentality. I love tradition in Rugby, but the power that some of the older clubs have in Australia, and the failure to adapt for the greater good of Australian rugby as a whole, is an extra headache that the ARU don't need.

... I'm looking at the last attempt at a domestic competition as an example, where the concept and competition itself wasn't really supported ... anyway, I'm way off topic again

The first ARC was a disaster because the clubs weren't on board and thought they could do without it. This time they're all mostly on board and making themselves at least partially financially liable, so it's a step forward. That said, this really should have happened back in 2004 when the game had bags full of cash and was riding high after hosting a brilliant RWC. The trouble was that the ARU got cocky and tried to hammer the NRL whilst it was down in the dumps and still rebuilding after the Super League War, all the while failing to realise that Rugby League still had infinitely stronger fundamentals than Union and greater depth in every sense.

Here's hoping the stop worrying about League - who they're now light years behind - and just focus on their own house and attempt to claw back the no.3 spot in Australian sport from soccer.

 

[Shaggy]

The first ARC was a disaster because the clubs weren't on board and thought they could do without it. This time they're all mostly on board and making themselves at least partially financially liable, so it's a step forward. That said, this really should have happened back in 2004 when the game had bags full of cash and was riding high after hosting a brilliant RWC. The trouble was that the ARU got cocky and tried to hammer the NRL whilst it was down in the dumps and still rebuilding after the Super League War, all the while failing to realise that Rugby League still had infinitely stronger fundamentals than Union and greater depth in every sense.

Here's hoping the stop worrying about League - who they're now light years behind - and just focus on their own house and attempt to claw back the no.3 spot in Australian sport from soccer.

Amen to that ... and that the ARU can remain solvent too


... I see Speight is back/available for the Brumbies this weekend ... I know he's not available for this series, but will be eligible for the Wallabies for the deciding Bledisloe test ... I don't think he'd look out of place in a Wallaby jumper

 

[RoosTah]

Amen to that ... and that the ARU can remain solvent too


... I see Speight is back/available for the Brumbies this weekend ... I know he's not available for this series, but will be eligible for the Wallabies for the deciding Bledisloe test ... I don't think he'd look out of place in a Wallaby jumper

The man would look very good in Wallaby gold ;-). Shame it'll be in that barf inducing new ASICS jersey...

 

[Tahman15]

I think the reason why they lack size and depth in some areas, is that Australian Rugby still has the blinkers on when it comes to identifying and capturing young talent. They still look to the traditional East Sydney based teams and the private schools for their talent, when they should look to the outer west suburbs as well. That's where a lot of the Pacific Islanders live, many are Australian born, so no residency playing issues there.

In contrast, the Rugby League scouts have no problems identifying and grabbing talent from that area. The league clubs even send their players on school visits etc.

To me, it just makes sense to develop the talent you have in your own back yard, rather than "buy" rugby league players, or grab players from New Zealand or South Africa

The ARU is really struggling financially right now as you probably know and they just don't have the money to fund a big scouting programs in the western suburbs. The other problem is that league is the main sport and what most people in the western suburbs will play league and union doesn't have the resources the try and snare some of them. It's the same where I live. I live in northern NSW in low socio economic town where league is dominant. We have a rugby club but most of the players are from the local private school. League also attracts a lot of aboriginals as well who are very athletic and skillful who would be very good rugby players. For the ARU it's kind of a catch 22 scenario, they need more money to get more people interested in rugby but they need more people to get the money to do it.

 

[Shaggy]

The ARU is really struggling financially right now as you probably know and they just don't have the money to fund a big scouting programs in the western suburbs. The other problem is that league is the main sport and what most people in the western suburbs will play league and union doesn't have the resources the try and snare some of them. It's the same where I live. I live in northern NSW in low socio economic town where league is dominant. We have a rugby club but most of the players are from the local private school. League also attracts a lot of aboriginals as well who are very athletic and skillful who would be very good rugby players. For the ARU it's kind of a catch 22 scenario, they need more money to get more people interested in rugby but they need more people to get the money to do it.

I totally get that they don't have a lot of money, and I'm not advocating a big scouting program - maybe a few school visits by some of the current players, and some skills training, and some support for the existing clubs/teams ... you know, maybe if they showed some interest/gave some attention.

I know a lot of high school aged players lay both codes in the outer western suburbs, but the promising ones tend to get offered contracts through the league clubs ... I guess they see the league clubs development structure as a pathway to a career in either code.

I just think that money is better spent in this area, than luring players from across the Tasman Sea or Indian Ocean, and waiting for them to become eligible for the Wallabies.

Anyway, I've gone way off track with this - the Wallaby squad is named on Thursday? How many in the Squad?