[2014 Mid-Year Tests] Australia

[Darwin]

Adam Ashley Cooper never passes the ball either

While I agree passing isn't AAC's strength, he still passes far more often than Kuridrani.

Passing is still an important skill for a centre. They don't need to be passing every time they get the ball, but they need to be able to pass to an open wing if required. The Wallabies will miss out on a few tries with AAC at centre. They will miss out on even more with Kuridrani there....

 

[welshglory]

Sure it's still important but angles of running and physicality are much more important now. It's more lie a rugby league position to put it bluntly

 

[Darwin]

Decision making with ball in hand is still important for a 13 (as it is for all backs) - perhaps that is a better term for me to use than passing ability (as I'm sure they all possess the ability to pass, the difference is when / if they use this ability). AAC's decision making is much better than Kuridrani's both in attack and defense. Given Australia tend to play a much more expansive game-plan decision making in the 13 jersey is probably even more vital than it is for most countries....

 

[welshglory]

I see what you mean.
The argument is that if they already have a decision making player at 12 like Toomua, Beale or Lealiifano then they can afford to have him at 13 in terms of balance. Especially when they lack physicality elsewhere.
But to be fair as you've said he isn't exactly setting the world alight at super rugby like a Fekitoa or Nonu for example and he hasn't made the most of his attributes so far.

However, even though this may be the case I think that his presence and size holds off defenders and will create space for others. Then they can release the likes of Folau etc... Instead of AAC just crabbing across the field...

It's a case of preference i suppose.

 

[Shaggy]

I see what you mean.
The argument is that if they already have a decision making player at 12 like Toomua, Beale or Lealiifano then they can afford to have him at 13 in terms of balance. Especially when they lack physicality elsewhere.
But to be fair as you've said he isn't exactly setting the world alight at super rugby like a Fekitoa or Nonu for example and he hasn't made the most of his attributes so far.

However, even though this may be the case I think that his presence and size holds off defenders and will create space for others. Then they can release the likes of Folau etc... Instead of AAC just crabbing across the field...

It's a case of preference i suppose.

Australia seem to have an over abundance of good 12's, but seem to be a bit limited at 13 (after you get past AAC and Kuridrani) ... I wonder how much rugby AAC has left in him, as he seems to have been around forever ... I guess the wise thing to do is to give both players decent game time at outside centre

 

[Darwin]

I see what you mean.
The argument is that if they already have a decision making player at 12 like Toomua, Beale or Lealiifano then they can afford to have him at 13 in terms of balance. Especially when they lack physicality elsewhere.
But to be fair as you've said he isn't exactly setting the world alight at super rugby like a Fekitoa or Nonu for example and he hasn't made the most of his attributes so far.

However, even though this may be the case I think that his presence and size holds off defenders and will create space for others. Then they can release the likes of Folau etc... Instead of AAC just crabbing across the field...

It's a case of preference i suppose.

Fair enough. Don't get me wrong I think Kuridrani has a huge amount of potential, I just don't think he has made the most of the his talents yet. It is obviously not clear cut, but I would imagine the Wallabies selectors still consider Ashley-Cooper as their 1st choice 13.

I don't think Ashley-Cooper is in the top 2 wings in the country, so if Kuridrani is the 1st choice 13 I wouldn't have Ashley-Cooper in the starting XV....

 

[Tahman15]

AAC's experience counts for a lot plus his reliability. Toomua isn't that big so having a physical centre outside him worked well. I would say AAC is one of the top 2 wings in Aus, you've got him and Tomane, while Tomane is more flashy he's also more mistake prone. I think our backline already has enough spark with Folau and Cooper and we don't need him. I'd pick AAC for his reliability knowing that he will run hard, defend hard and hardly make a mistake all night. Before Kurindrani got suspended during the EOYT he was our first choice 13 and he played well so I'd assume that McKenzie will pick him. During the EOYT our backline was really well balanced so I'd like to keep it like that.

 

[Jaguares]

Good advert by ARU:

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

think the advert needs the honey badger in it to be perfect

 

[Big Ewis]

haha, great ad indeed.

 

[Jaguares]

think the advert needs the honey badger in it to be perfect

Yeah I thought the same but I think ARU is trying to convert to Hooper as the new RU's hero in Australia

 

[IRISH RUGBY MAN]

Yeah I thought the same but I think ARU is trying to convert to Hooper as the new RU's hero in Australia

I think they have succeeded

 

[welshglory]

All of Australia's big, physical, athletic men are joining the Nrl and Afl. Really struggling to attract physical centres and back rowers now.

Edit:
Sorry meant to reply to someone's comment...

 

[Big Ewis]

I guess it is pretty awesome to see Australia can still come to Europe and make it 4.5/5 last tour (given the controversy in Twickers, I'll call that .5 their way) and can still hold the third world spot in Union when they have so many other very, very popular sports in the nation, some of which are very similar to union and would attract all the potential studs. They're easily the best at league, and still manage a superb Union side. Props to them.

 

[Jaguares]

All of Australia's big, physical, athletic men are joining the Nrl and Afl. Really struggling to attract physical centres and back rowers now.

Edit:
Sorry meant to reply to someone's comment...

I'm not sure, they still have young big players like:

Michael Hooper (22 years): 1,82 m and 101 kg
Sean McMahon (19 years): 1,87 m and 100 kg
Luke Jones (23 years): 1,97 m and 111 kg
Sam Carter (24 years): 2,00 m and 110 kg
Ben McCalman: (26 years): 1,92m and 108 kg
Rob Simmons (24 years): 2,00 m and 115 kg
Eddie Quirk (22 years): 1,91 m and 108 kg
Liam Gill (21 years): 1,85 m and 94 kg

Although the Union has fallen in popularity over the last 10 years in Australia, Aussies still have a loyal supporter to the Union in cities like Brisbane, Sydney and Canberra. Despite the growth of AFL and NRL, they managed to increase their number of Super Rugby and with the new teams (Force and Rebels) ARU has the same number of franchises than NZRU or SARU. I think they have a great chance of winning their third WC. ABs never won a WC in Europe and Wales, a year of world, is falling apart. That leaves as contenders to England, France and SA. They have a great chance if McKenzie continues to improve the team as we saw in the last spring tour.

The World Cup of Union has much more impact worldwide than any competition of the League and even the AFL which is only popular in Australia. With Aussies children proud of their team winning a WC in the hostile territory of the English pirates, many Aussies kids will want to play Union again such as the gold years.

I guess it is pretty awesome to see Australia can still come to Europe and make it 4.5/5 last tour (given the controversy in Twickers, I'll call that .5 their way) and can still hold the third world spot in Union when they have so many other very, very popular sports in the nation, some of which are very similar to union and would attract all the potential studs. They're easily the best at league, and still manage a superb Union side. Props to them.

Yeah but paradoxically is a indirect support to ARU. For example: In France and Argentina the most popular sport is football (soccer) so we have many athletes who are too skinny to play rugby. Then most of our professional athletes couldn't play rugby without an intense physical training for a year at least. In Australia, most of the Aussies athletes can play rugby because Rugby League and footy are very similar than Union in fitness. So, ARU has taken a direct benefit with the best NRL players wearing the wallaby jersey in the last RWCs: Wendell Sailor (WC 2003), Mat Rogers (WC 2003), Lote Tuqiri (WC 2007) and Israel Folau and Joe Tomane at the moment.

The popularity of footy and specially League in Australia gives to the ARU the possibility of having a little extra help. For example Joe Tomane failed in NRL but now he has an interesting career in Union playing in a top Super Rugby team like Brumbies and even playing in Wallabies, the top 3 national team in our sport.

 

[welshglory]

I'm not sure, they still have young big players like:

Michael Hooper (22 years): 1,82 m and 101 kg
Sean McMahon (19 years): 1,87 m and 100 kg
Luke Jones (23 years): 1,97 m and 111 kg
Sam Carter (24 years): 2,00 m and 110 kg
Ben McCalman: (26 years): 1,92m and 108 kg
Rob Simmons (24 years): 2,00 m and 115 kg
Eddie Quirk (22 years): 1,91 m and 108 kg
Liam Gill (21 years): 1,85 m and 94 kg



Yeah but paradoxically is a indirect support to ARU. For example: In France and Argentina the most popular sport is football (soccer) so we have many athletes who are too skinny to play rugby. Then most of our professional athletes couldn't play rugby without an intense physical training for a year at least. In Australia, most of the Aussies athletes can play rugby because Rugby League and footy are very similar than Union in fitness. So, ARU has taken a direct benefit with the best NRL players wearing the wallaby jersey in the last RWCs: Wendell Sailor (WC 2003), Mat Rogers (WC 2003), Lote Tuqiri (WC 2007) and Israel Folau and Joe Tomane at the moment.

The popularity of footy and specially League in Australia gives to the ARU the possibility of having a little extra help. For example Joe Tomane failed in NRL but now he has an interesting career in Union playing in a top Super Rugby team like Brumbies and even playing in Wallabies, the top 3 national team in our sport.

Of course 1.98m+ players are gonna keep going to union in australia they are by and large useless in league. I'm not sure how Gill and Hooper are examples of big backrowers either. They're both extremely strong and powerful for their sizes, Hooper in particular but they're not 1.93m+ 110kg+ athletes are they? Tbh for his size Mccalman is a powderpuff and he's put on extra unnatural weight to compensate.

I'm talking about Inglis, Folau, Tuquiri, Sailor at a young age why are they going to league and not union and what is being done to target these guys when they are still teens? It seems like the ARU has been asleep since 200. I think unless your in the academy and age grade set ups or you go to a private school in australia and you're the type of athlete i'm talking about you will end up in the Nrl. Sure some guys will come back but the ARU needs to do a much better job. Sanzar needs to take a look at itself too because Australia ian very important.

 

[Gavin]

Do you mind clarifying who those players are, there's only 2 who spring to mind and they're Fardy who plays lock for his club and 6 for the Wallabies and Toomua who is a flyhalf and plays 12 for the Wallabies but those two were some of the best on the EOYT so I don't think that was a problem. I could've left players out and/or I've misread your point but IMO I don't think that's one of the problems for Wallabies. The main problem is that Union is the 3 or 4th most popular winter sport in Australia and we have a smaller pool of players to pick from. I live in a small low socio economic country town in Australia and league is vastly more popular than Union. That's not to say Unions inexistant but almost all the junior rugby players at our local club are from the private school. The public schools play rugby and the kids enjoy it but they've grown up with league so they stick with league. In Australia if you say your a sports fan you will usually have a main code, out of AFL, Rugby, League and Soccer but most people follow the other codes as well but not as in depth as their main one.

You have Toomua, AAC, Beale, O'Connor, Barnes, Lealiifano (obviously Barnes and O'Connor ain't playing for Australia atm). It is great that all these players can adapt to different positions but it must make it difficult to establish partnerships.

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

so i've done it in the other threads this is what i think will be the aussies XV for the games

1.) Benn Robinson
2.) Stephen Moore
3.) Sekope Kepu
4.) Rob Simmons
5.) James Horwill (c)
6.) Scott Fardy
7.) Michael Hooper
8.) Ben McCalman
9.) Nic White
10.) Quade Cooper
11.) Nick Cummins
12.) Matt Toomua
13.) Adam Ashley-Cooper/Tevita Kuridrani
14.) Joe Tomane/Alofa Alofa
15.) Israel Folau

 

[Jaguares]

Of course 1.98m+ players are gonna keep going to union in australia they are by and large useless in league. I'm not sure how Gill and Hooper are examples of big backrowers either. They're both extremely strong and powerful for their sizes, Hooper in particular but they're not 1.93m+ 110kg+ athletes are they? Tbh for his size Mccalman is a powderpuff and he's put on extra unnatural weight to compensate.

I'm talking about Inglis, Folau, Tuquiri, Sailor etc... I think unless your in the academy and age grade set ups or you go to a private school in australia and you're the type of athlete i'm talking about you will end up in the Nrl. Sure some guys will come back but the ARU needs to do a much better job. Sanzar needs to take a look at itself too because Australia ian very important.

I have another question. ARU needs big backrowers?? I'm not sure. I think they have a good backrow at the moment with Hooper, Scott Higginbotham, Palu, McCalman and others. The problem of the Union in Australia is different and has always been the same: the front row.

I think like you, IRB should to help the game in Australia, it's too important for our sport. We can't afford to lose as important market. That's where the IRB should look, not in new markets like China or USA, they are bigger, of course but we can't look new markets while we are losing one of our most important markets. IRB must help the ARU in their fight against the AFL and NRL.

The struggle in Australia is easier than in USA or China, where we have a tiny chance to grow our sport. The IRB should attract the Australian market to the Union. Whether to change the rules for a more dynamic game, do it. If you put money in the ARU, do it. We can't lose this country if we want continue to grow our sport.

Healthy Union in Australia, is equal to a stronger global sport. Damn! Australia is one of the most important countries of the world, we should take advantage of that in favor of the Union. Must be a central topic in IRB should stop putting money into countries with no tradition and help the ARU.

 

[welshglory]

I dont won't to seem like i'm being too critical of australian rugby though, i have a lot of respect for them. But this irks me a bit and i think it has possibly shown that the union controlled top down model doesn't work everywhere. In small countries and union loving countries it is great and possibly the only option, but in a country as big as australia and with as many different popular sports letting clubs do there own thing might be better.

That's for a different thread though...