[2014 Mid-Year Test] Canada vs. Scotland 14/06/14

[Beerfalo]

Is there room in the other nation's schedules to do a PNC semifinal and final?

Since it looks like the winners are Fiji and Japan I don't think so. Japan is busy the only free week Fiji have in the window. The only option would be them playing November 1st, just outside the window, but since most of Fiji plays in Europe I can't see them fielding more than an A side that week so what's the point. It would be Japan vs Samoa from a couple weeks ago all over again.

And I agree with rusty_lock. If Canada gets shafted and has to play the European Third Tiers then what's the point of even going. A 60-5 butt kicking does nothing for either side. Let our pros stay with their clubs and just send whatever team we use in the ARC. At the very least it would be a nice experience for some guys who would normally not crack the regular lineup. I'd love to see Chauncey O'Toole suit up for Canada again, just saying.

If our guys can finish above Italy and Romania next year then maybe we'll start to get the respect from the IRB and matches against Tier 1's that we deserve.

 

[dragos03]

Playing tests against the likes of Spain, Belgium and Russia are worthless for our development. As a matter of fact, if that is what we end up with I would suggest that that those players playing in the higher leagues in the UK or ITM cup in NZ be left to play there and we go a Canada A and send a developmental team of domestic players.

That's just wrong. If you expect the Tier 1 nations to play against Canada, you must give something back and also play like one test per year vs a Tier 3 nation to help them develop. Sending Canada A won't help, would you be happy to play against Tier 1 A sides?

Ideally, Tier 2 nations should play at least one match per year against a better opponent (Tier 1) and a lesser one (Tier 3).

Besides, Canada's schedule is not that bad compared to other teams. My country has not played a Tier 1 opponent outside the RWC since 2006... and we have to play the matches that you consider worthless (against Spain, Portugal and Russia) every single year plus a weak June tournament with opponents like Uruguay or some understrength A sides.

 

[LittleGuy]

Yeah I really don't mind one test every November vs. a Tier three side, we could even do like we did against Belgium in 2010 or Portugal last year and rotate some players and just take a token amount of pros. We can't neglect those countries entirely, especially when we want matches with Tier One teams, we have to give a little to get a little.

My ideal November schedule from year to year would be something like

1st week. Tier three European side(keep most of the pro's out)
2nd week. Romania/Georgia/Russia(if they get their act together again)
3rd week. Tier One opponent
4th week. Tier Two opponent maybe a neutral site game if no one else is available.

@ Beerfalo.....you asked and you received....Chauncey O'Toole called up for this weeks game due to Kleebs injury!!!

 

[Beerfalo]

I agree that T1's should play at least one game against T2's per year and T2's should play at least one T3. We have to help elevate the T3's like the T1's should be doing for the T2's.

But we're not talking about just one match against a third tier country either. Canada could very realistically have to settle for three this fall and that simply isn't worth our time if that happens. It would be like if England had to face Canada, USA and Romania. They gain absolutely nothing from that. A schedule like Argentina, Romania and Portugal I could accept and embrace. Even another year of Georgia, Romania and Portugal would have been alright by me. But a potential Fall schedule combination of Russia, Spain, Belgium, Moldova, Germany or Portugal the year before the World Cup just seems disrespectful by the IRB.

And it's not just Canada I'm upset about, I think Romania deserves some real respect from the IRB. There is no reason Samoa and Fiji should get two T1 tests each while Romania and Canada sit around on the outside.

 

[LittleGuy]

It's been waaaayyy too long since we played a full test vs. Argentina!!!

 

[Beerfalo]

It was 2005 wasn't it? For the two best teams in the Americas it's a shame we don't play regularly.

Also yay Chauncey, I feel like doing a happy dance.

 

[Big Ewis]

 

[LittleGuy]

There was a 2005 game but the Argies argued about the cap status. There was some sort of compromise reached the stats and caps were official but the IRB rankings weren't effected.

 

[rusty_lock]

That's just wrong. If you expect the Tier 1 nations to play against Canada, you must give something back and also play like one test per year vs a Tier 3 nation to help them develop. Sending Canada A won't help, would you be happy to play against Tier 1 A sides?

Ideally, Tier 2 nations should play at least one match per year against a better opponent (Tier 1) and a lesser one (Tier 3).

Besides, Canada's schedule is not that bad compared to other teams. My country has not played a Tier 1 opponent outside the RWC since 2006... and we have to play the matches that you consider worthless (against Spain, Portugal and Russia) every single year plus a weak June tournament with opponents like Uruguay or some understrength A sides.

We have given plenty back. I have no problem playing against tier 2's and 1 match against tier 3 countries but when you never get any tier 1's during the same window it makes it very difficult to stomach.

Recent history of November tests for Canada

November 2013
Georgia
Romania
Portugul

November 2012
Samoa
Russia

November 2011
Nothing because of RWC

November 2010
Spain
Georgia
Portugul

November 2009
Japan
Japan
Russia

Thank God for the odd Georgia and Japan Test otherwise this would be a complete clusterf___

I can't speak to the schedule that Romania gets and while I sympathize with you if you feel you are being short changed having us play Spain isn't going to help your cause.

Canada is the only Tier 2 country that has qualified for the RWC EVERY SINGLE TIME it has been played but yet we are constantly shafted.

 

[rusty_lock]

Yeah I really don't mind one test every November vs. a Tier three side, we could even do like we did against Belgium in 2010 or Portugal last year and rotate some players and just take a token amount of pros. We can't neglect those countries entirely, especially when we want matches with Tier One teams, we have to give a little to get a little.

My ideal November schedule from year to year would be something like

1st week. Tier three European side(keep most of the pro's out)
2nd week. Romania/Georgia/Russia(if they get their act together again)
3rd week. Tier One opponent
4th week. Tier Two opponent maybe a neutral site game if no one else is available.

This would be a more than acceptable schedule if it was something that we could count on year after year. If coupled with the PNC in June plus one touring tier 1 I'd be will to throw in hosting a Tier 3 game as a tune up for our domestic players just before June window opens.

 

[LittleGuy]

Sorry to be a bit of a pedantic douche Rusty, but Romania has also qualified for every single world cup. Only other Tier Two/Three side along side us.

And agreed, if it was something we could count on year to year that schedule looks good, this mish mash isn't working some years weren't awful like 2010 and 2013, but 2012 and 2009 yuck.

For warm up games before June why not teams like Uruguay and Namibia? Surely the IRB should be interested in some variety

 

[rusty_lock]

Not pedantic at all. Thanks for the correction. Romanian supporters have just as much right to complain as we do.

Uruguay would be an excellent choice for early June test or even Hong Kong. We have a large ex-pat community here in Vancouver and could probably draw a decent little crowd if held at the right venue.

 

[Beerfalo]

I think the BC Bears vs Hong Kong or South Korea would be a cool match up and I'd try and head down to Vancouver to catch it. It would be nice to host T3 matches in cities like Calgary, Edmonton and St John's since Toronto(right now) and Vancouver(when they replace the turf at BC Place) will most likely get all the big matches. Maybe have a CRC team host the T3 instead of a Canada A side.

 

[Dougydeluxe]

Just blasted through most of the post.

Happy to see that everyone thinks Canada played great and that minus the Red Card we are looking good for the RWC.

It was a tough loss, but like people have said, the game was good and the fans were great.

I also hope we get better opposition. But I believe that Canada has officially hit the "Rugby Wall". By this I mean, that our potential growth in revenue is very small compared to the USA. Now that the USA can actually put together a good team and get a decent audience, Tier 1 nations will have no probable playing games against them. While Canada will have to rely on the fact that we are a competitive team to draw teams and not just eh $$$

 

[jonny24]

I think our better domestic setup/pathways has kept us ahead of the States, and I don't know how long that will last. Oncethey get themselves sorted out (Pro league, CRC-type comp or something) they'll finally start turning potential into success.

 

[rusty_lock]

They are 100's of miles away from a pro setup. They talk about it but there' is no plan or prospect of anything happening. They have no real pathway. They talk about their super league but it is a joke.

 

[Beerfalo]

I think Canada is still a desirable market. We may not offer the "potential" of the USA and Japan but our team should remain competitive and we're a relatively big country amongst those that actually care for the sport. Plus Canada is one of the most well off countries on the planet. Rugby is also growing here, it's big in Ontario and BC and is making good grounds in Alberta, and the only truly dominant sport is hockey so rugby has a lot of room to establish itself. When the USA actually looks like they are getting themselves sorted out we can maybe start to worry but USA Rugby is showing very little signs that they are headed down that path. But even a strong USA benefits Canada so I hope they get it sorted out.

Besides is selling a massive amount of tickets against the All Blacks really that impressive? We'd probably pack Commonwealth Stadium if the All Blacks came to town. They are one of the most dominant sporting names in the world, I know people who couldn't tell you what a knock on is but they know of the All Blacks and how good they are. Just last week the USA only sold like 5k-6k tickets for the game against Japan in LA and that's a more telling stat for me.

 

[LittleGuy]

Patrick Johnston hints here that November it's a neutral sit schedule in the UK like 2012 was....ugghhhhh....rest of interview is awesome, great work by Paul and Pat.

http://rugbyworldcup-argentina2023.blogspot.com.br/2014/06/internationall-rugby-q-with-patrick.html

 

[Beerfalo]

If they are touring the UK then that probably means no Romania because surely they'd host? A UK tour could at least get us some decent match ups. The Pacific Islanders will be in Western Europe and don't have full schedules and as I said before Japan only has one game last I heard. We will also probably get Russia, who are in WC contention, which would be good for some of the younger guys on Canada. I wish they'd just release a schedule already. Hopefully they push for four games with maybe playing a T3 in week one using a mostly domestic, yet talented, side.

Also that's big news for Vancouver and the Sevens World Series. I hope they can land a spot on the tour. I'd never live there but Vancouver is a beautiful city and a fun place to visit and I'd definitely head there to watch a tournament. It makes more sense to me than Buenos Aires but of course I'm rather biased.

 

[rusty_lock]

Patrick Johnston hints here that November it's a neutral sit schedule in the UK like 2012 was....ugghhhhh....rest of interview is awesome, great work by Paul and Pat.

http://rugbyworldcup-argentina2023.blogspot.com.br/2014/06/internationall-rugby-q-with-patrick.html

Looking at the schedule that is what I suspected was going to happen. Also, you were right it was an excellent interview.