[2014 ITM Cup] Round 4

[TRF Mr Fish]

ROUND 4

03/09 - Manawatu v Bay of Plenty

04/09 - Otago v Canterbury

Canterbury: Patrick Osborne, Rob Thompson, Jack Goodhue, Adam Whitelock, Milford Keresoma, Richie Mo'unga, Willi Heinz (c), Nasi Manu, Matt Todd, Luke Whitelock, Matt Symons, Scott Barrett, Nepo Laulala, Ben Funnell, Alex Hodgman. Reserves: Codie Taylor, Siate Tokolahi, Joel Everson, Tom Sanders, Mitchell Drummond, Luteru Laulala, Nathaniel Apa.

05/09 - Tasman v Waikato

Waikato: Albert Nikoro, Declan O'Donnell, Chauncy Edwardson, Anton Lienert-Brown, Joe Webber, Damian McKenzie, Brad Weber (c), Adam Burn, Zak Hohneck, Whetu Douglas, Jacob Skeen, Luke Katene, Ben Tameifuna, Hame Faiva, Loni Uhila. Reserves: Brayden Mitchell, Josh Hohneck, Nick Ross, Zane Kapeli, Tawera Kerr-Barlow, Wharenui Hawera, Regan Ware.

05/09 Northland v Hawke's Bay

06/09 - Auckland v Wellington

06/09 - Taranaki v Southland

07/09 - Manawatu v Counties Manukau

07/09 - Bay of Plenty v North Harbour

​

 

[Regan]

Initial predictions I'd say:

Manawatu
Canterbury
Tasman
Hawke's Bay
Auckland
Taranaki
Counties
BOP

 

[Darwin]

Initial predictions I'd say:

Manawatu
Canterbury
Tasman
Hawke's Bay
Auckland
Taranaki
Counties
BOP

I've got similar picks to you, but have Northland to beat Hawkes Bay (who may not be over the Shield 'hangover' yet), and North Harbour to beat BOP ( North Harbour are due to play their 1 good match for the season).

 

[smartcooky]

Initial predictions I'd say:

Manawatu
Canterbury
Tasman
Hawke's Bay
Auckland
Taranaki
Counties
BOP

Picking a draw then are we?

 

[Regan]

Picking a draw then are we?

Manawatu and BOP play twice this round. Predicting BOP to beat NH.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Richie Mo'unga is yet to pick up a Super Rugby contract for next season - like McKenzie he really should be snapped up as I think he looks very sharp (certainly much better than what Bleyendaal was producing a couple of years ago.

Blues:
Simon Hickey
Ihaia West
Daniel Bowden

Chiefs:
Aaron Cruden
Damian McKenzie
Andrew Horrell

Hurricanes:
Beauden Barrett
Marty Bankes
James Marshall

Crusaders:
Dan Carter
Colin Slade
Tom Taylor

Highlanders:
Lima Sopoaga
Hayden Parker

Unsigned:
Baden Kerr
Marty McKenzie
Richie Mo'unga
Matt McGahan

I can't think of anyone else who has spent time with a Super Rugby team or otherwise looks ready to make the step up to the next level. I'd imagine McGahan will find himself in the Blues WTS, Kerr will probably head overseas.

 

[Darwin]

I would be surprised if the Crusaders aren't already negotiating a deal with Mo'unga. They do have plenty of first five cover with Bleyendaal departing, but all of their current options are versatile (Mo'unga certainly doesn't look out of place at fullback either), Dan Carter is sure to be injured for most of next season, and they do need to develop another 10 to cover the post RWC exodus at the end of 2015 (Carter will almost certainly be gone, and both Slade and Taylor will possibly be considering moves overseas).

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

So, uhhh... Did anyone watch tonight's match? On the forums or otherwise...

 

[Darwin]

Was there rugby on last night?

I will certainly be watching tonights match as there are two quality teams involved

Canterbury: Patrick Osborne, Rob Thompson, Jack Goodhue, Adam Whitelock, Milford Keresoma, Richie Mo'unga, Willi Heinz (c), Nasi Manu, Matt Todd, Luke Whitelock, Matt Symons, Scott Barrett, Nepo Laulala, Ben Funnell, Alex Hodgman. Reserves: Codie Taylor, Siate Tokolahi, Joel Everson, Tom Sanders, Mitchell Drummond, Luteru Laulala, Nathaniel Apa.

Otago: Trent Renata, Marshall Suckling, Jayden Spence, Teihorangi Walden, Fa'asiu Fuatai, Hayden Parker, Nick Ealey, Charlie O'Connell (c), James Lentjes, Naulia Dawai, Tom Franklin, Jackson Hemopo, Hisa Sasagi, Sam Anderson-Heather, Aki Seiuli. Reserves: Liam Coltman, Donald Brighouse, Joe Latta, TJ Ioane, Lee Allan, Josh Renton, Peter Breen.

Otago have made quite a few changes - it looks like a weaker team than played last week - so I can't see us winning this (I don't think we have got close with our top team to be honest!). Probably our best option will be employ a strong tactical kicking game as I'm not sure how much experience Pat Osbourne has at fullback, and Keresoma isn't exactly great turning and chasing the ball (or catching the high ball..).

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Richie Mo'unga is yet to pick up a Super Rugby contract for next season - like McKenzie he really should be snapped up as I think he looks very sharp (certainly much better than what Bleyendaal was producing a couple of years ago.

Blues:
Simon Hickey
Ihaia West
Daniel Bowden

Chiefs:
Aaron Cruden
Damian McKenzie
Andrew Horrell

Hurricanes:
Beauden Barrett
Marty Bankes
James Marshall

Crusaders:
Dan Carter
Colin Slade
Tom Taylor

Highlanders:
Lima Sopoaga
Hayden Parker

Unsigned:
Baden Kerr
Marty McKenzie
Richie Mo'unga
Matt McGahan

I can't think of anyone else who has spent time with a Super Rugby team or otherwise looks ready to make the step up to the next level. I'd imagine McGahan will find himself in the Blues WTS, Kerr will probably head overseas.

looks like we need someone Darwin...as per usual...who woud you pick up? bring Mckenzie home?

 

[Darwin]

looks like we need someone Darwin...as per usual...who woud you pick up? bring Mckenzie home?

I'm not sure if we necessarily need another 10. Sopoaga and Parker are sure to be back, and I would assume Renata will be in the main squad this year too (and is handy cover for 10). Last year we did have Willie Ripia (for some unknown reason?) so we may look to replace him with another 10. As I've mentioned I would be very surprised if Mo'unga isn't contracted to the Crusaders, and McGahan will almost certainly be sticking with the Blues. Kerr would certainly be an option but can't seem to stay fit, so I agree with Mr Fish that he may look to head overseas. Basically that leaves us with one option - McKenzie. I still think he has a lot of work to do, but he certainly has some talent, and could thrive outside Smith with his attacking style (especially under the roof in Dunedin). I would like to see him play a few more matches for Taranaki (preferably some tighter matches so we can see how he deals with the pressure), but he is probably who I would be considering at the moment (if they want another 10..).

 

[Darwin]

Well we got closer than I expected. Coming away with the bonus point against the best side in the competition is probably a very good result for us. To be fair Canterbury didn't play that well - once they got going in the 2nd half they were clearly the better side. Otago did a good job of exploiting the inexperience of the Canterbury back 3 with some good tactical kicking, but we lacked a bit of "punch" in attack. The fact our lineouts were a disaster didn't help.....

A few thoughts on the players:
- Scott Barrett impressed again at lock. I expect the Crusaders will be signing him up sooner rather than latter.
- Nasi Manu is a quality 8. He doesn't fit the current game-plan so he is unlikely to ever be an All Black, but he wouldn't look out of place at test level in my opinion.
- Willi Heinz is very good at this level. Pity he's not good at the next level...
- Adam Whitelock is a good midfielder. Jack Goodhue looks to have a lot of potential at centre
- Pat Osbourne is not a fullback.
- Liam Coltman is fantastic around the field. His lineout throwing is still a disaster though. I do wonder whether he should consider converting back into a prop..
- Dawai has been a good pickup from Southland, though he is a very similar player to Ioane.
- Renton had a bit of a shocker when he came on, but he wasn't getting a lot of support from his forwards
- Hayden Parker is a good 10 at this level. I thought he clearly outplayed Mo'unga (who is a talent though)
- Suckling doesn't have a lot of talent, but I love his commitment. Fuatai is a weapon when he backs himself on the outside - he does need to back himself more. Renata's kicking was very mixed - he put up some excellent bombs, but some of his bombs were shocking....

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Bet a sly twenty on Canterbury to win by 16 points, which I think would have eventuated were it not for a pretty poor referee.

Otago's biggest issue was poor kicking, some of those up and unders were awful. I also thought it was a bit cheeky going to golden oldies when Coltman spent a couple of years at prop... Also I was a bit surprised at Tony Brown suggesting Otago had the upper hand at scrum time

 

[Darwin]

Bet a sly twenty on Canterbury to win by 16 points, which I think would have eventuated were it not for a pretty poor referee.

Otago's biggest issue was poor kicking, some of those up and unders were awful. I also thought it was a bit cheeky going to golden oldies when Coltman spent a couple of years at prop... Also I was a bit surprised at Tony Brown suggesting Otago had the upper hand at scrum time

I agree it was rather strange - Coltman spent a significant portion of the last ITM Cup season at TH prop (and was quite effective there). I don't think we should be surprised that a former first five doesn't have a clue about scrummaging

 

[Kiwiwomble]

question, not saying im right but can someone explain Nasi's try, was that not a ruck, they'd kicked it through and a couple of otago guys had gone down on it, and we're being held by canterbury players and it was not beyond the last feet.

can you not have a ruck extend over the line? and so it was in play?

i would say it was renata's bombs that lost it, i would say there were three or four that he shanked...giving them possession in great position, his kicks for territory were much better, should have just kept plugging them into the corners...and the lineouts...i just dont get why otago teams struggle so much with lines outs...have for years

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

question, not saying im right but can someone explain Nasi's try, was that not a ruck, they'd kicked it through and a couple of otago guys had gone down on it, and we're being held by canterbury players and it was not beyond the last feet.

can you not have a ruck extend over the line? and so it was in play?

i would say it was renata's bombs that lost it, i would say there were three or four that he shanked...giving them possession in great position, his kicks for territory were much better, should have just kept plugging them into the corners...and the lineouts...i just dont get why otago teams struggle so much with lines outs...have for years

When the ball is over the try line there is no offside.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

there you go then...not hands in the ruck?

 

[Darwin]

Well that Tasman vs Waikato game was fun. Both sides were happy to throw the ball around from anywhere! It could have gone either way, but Tasman managed to (finally) put some phases together at the end and score the try.

 

[Regan]

Thankfully Tasman won that in the end, some nice running rugby.

Have a multi on Tasman and HB so hopefully HB get up.

 

[nzlizard]

Thankfully Tasman won that in the end, some nice running rugby.

Have a multi on Tasman and HB so hopefully HB get up.

Mate Northland got up and won after the 80, that was unexpected, had picked HB 1-12 also.