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[2014 EOYT] Wales vs New Zealand

He's not a friggin wing you idiot! He's a fullback/10 these days more of a 10 as I remember he was always a handy fullback to.

I just dont agree with you on Crudens form its been average all year and anybody can tell his confidence is not what it was. Fact is he'd of started all of the big matches if his form was any good!

HAVE. He'd HAVE. As in: he would HAVE started, not he would of started, that doesn't even make sense. You're getting confused between would've (short for would have) and would of because they sound similar. No charge for the English lesson.

And you're missing the fact that he was clearly the number one and incumbent until missing the flight, so he was obviously in enough form to be the number one all year until then. Hansen said he had a plan to give them all a start this tour, and you would have to say Cruden was the best of all the starters.
 
I am not disagreeing with you, sides need to play for 80 mins. Wales weren't good enough to win at the end of the day.

What I am saying is that if someone who didn't watch the game looked at that scoreline, it would look like Wales were completely outplayed. That wasn't case. It was a very tight game for 65mins and we scored four tries in the last 15mins or so. We completely outplayed them in the last 15mins.

Lets turn that around slightly, if you hadn't watched the game and the only information you had about the match was that for 25% of the game the All Blacks completely outplayed Wales would you then think the scoreline was flattering?
 
For much of that match the AB's played like a side that hadn't played much rugby in the last few months. Perhaps we shouldn't have been surprised by that - most of the players haven't actually played that much rugby recently. The AB's plan to keep players fresh certainly played off in those last 20 minutes though!

As has been mentioned Barrett was poor (until shifted to fullback those last 20 minutes), however in some ways I feel sorry for him. He has obviously been penciled in for this match before the tour even started, but his style of first-five play isn't really suited to the Welsh rush defense, hence he was told to play a style that didn't remotely suit him. The AB's coaches obviously wanted him to employ a short kicking game to get in behind the Welsh defense. Unfortunately his short kicking game isn't good enough. Obviously the AB's selectors wanted to see whether Barrett was capable of executing this game-plan, and they got a pretty emphatic answer!

The frustrating thing (from a supporters point of view) is that we actually have someone who is more than capable of executing that game-plan in Aaron Cruden. Indeed I would suggest Cruden's short kicking game is as good as player in world rugby, and I have no doubt he would have been far more effective than Barrett this match. If the AB's selectors want to play Barrett at 10 they need to let him play his natural game. If they want someone with a short kicking game like Aaron Cruden they should pick Aaron Cruden.....

Right, on to the rest of the AB's players:
- The AB's front row as a whole did well in the 1st half. I have no idea what was happening at scrum time, but we were getting penalties, so we must have been doing well (in the eyes of the ref). The scrum went worryingly down hill in the 2nd half though (as it has quite a few times recently once Faumuina comes on).

- Dane Coles needs to calm the **** down. Seriously just chill out. The problem is that he is absolutely critical to us, so we can't just drop/bench him and tell him to get his act together...

- Retallick is incredible. Ball running, tackling, ruck cleaning, lineout work. All brilliant. World player of the year for me.

- The loose-trio was ok. Kaino missed a few tackles he should have made, and wasn't as prominent with ball in hand as he has been in at times this year. McCaw made a few good carries this week,, but wasn't as effective at the breakdown as he has been in the past. It was good (from a technical point of view) to see him finally get penalized for trying to steal the ball once it had clearly become a ruck this week (as he's been getting away with that a lot recently!). Read was the pick of the loose-trio. Everything he did was accurate, and he took his try well.

- Aaron Smith made a couple of big errors, but overall he had a solid match. Barrett has been discussed already. He's pretty impressive in broken play! Slade did a good job once he came on - he didn't really do that much, he just did the basics well.

- SBW handling was shocking. His defense was good though. C Smith played as he usually does - his pass in the Savea try was brilliant (if a little forward ;) ).

- The back three played well as a unit. Savea was his usual physical self, and Piutau was very sharp of the right wing too. As has been mentioned his only 'weakness' is that he doesn't possess Cory Jane's/Ben Smith's aerial skills. He certainly isn't weak in the air, he's just not Jane/Smith in this area. Ben Smith was well contained but played pretty well overall. There was one massive clearing punt (which should keep the Dagg fans happy, as that is the main requirement of a fullback isn't it :) ), he made his tackles, cleaned up well, and his passing was very crisp. I would like to see him breaking the line at will as he can do, but I would take his 'quiet' days at fullback over anything Dagg has offered in the 15 jersey these last few seasons.
 
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Some Welsh statistics from Scrum.com: Jamie Roberts (who was announced as MotM) touched the ball 11 times. He never once passed the ball and always ran to contact. Scrum.com does not have George North touching the ball all game. Surely there is a problem there with your backline. I think Roberts did play well but should not have been MotM. Wales needed to find a way to introduce their back 3 more on attack. Cuthbert hardly touched the ball either.
 
Lets turn that around slightly, if you hadn't watched the game and the only information you had about the match was that for 25% of the game the All Blacks completely outplayed Wales would you then think the scoreline was flattering?

Yeah I would. If I didn't watch the game but knew that the game was tight for 65mins but we had more gas at the end I would have expected us to win by a margin of say a try or two tries. In the end the scoreline could have looked even worse for Wales if we kicked our conversions.

Lol we are discussing semantics anyway. My initial reaction was that Wales were very good for most of the game and was a bit of sucker punch in the end for them to still lose by 18 and 5 tries to 1.
 
Some Welsh statistics from Scrum.com: Jamie Roberts (who was announced as MotM) touched the ball 11 times. He never once passed the ball and always ran to contact. Scrum.com does not have George North touching the ball all game. Surely there is a problem there with your backline. I think Roberts did play well but should not have been MotM. Wales needed to find a way to introduce their back 3 more on attack. Cuthbert hardly touched the ball either.

God knows what Brian Moore was thinking picking him; he's usually quid astute, but then what do you expect from a former Hooker?

JR is just a battering ram which the Welsh game plan revolves around, without him they have no other game plan.
 
Lol we are discussing semantics anyway. My initial reaction was that Wales were very good for most of the game and was a bit of sucker punch in the end for them to still lose by 18 and 5 tries to 1.

I agree it is all semantics really but I am somewhat tired of selling the All Black wins short so that we can flatter an opposition.

In my opinion the All Blacks won because they are the better team which does not mean that Wales are not a good team or that they can't cant beat the All Blacks it means that in this case the All Blacks were better, as an All Blacks supporter I don't need to emphasize the positives of the Welsh team that is what Welsh supporters are meant to do.
 
God knows what Brian Moore was thinking picking him; he's usually quid astute, but then what do you expect from a former Hooker?

JR is just a battering ram which the Welsh game plan revolves around, without him they have no other game plan.

Oi enough of the slagging off from you thanks.

ESPN Scrum stats are not that accurate either.

JR was good today, made meters with ball in hand, tackled well and was very good all round.

I agree it is all semantics really but I am somewhat tired of selling the All Black wins short so that we can flatter an opposition.

In my opinion the All Blacks won because they are the better team which does not mean that Wales are not a good team or that they can't cant beat the All Blacks it means that in this case the All Blacks were better, as an All Blacks supporter I don't need to emphasize the positives of the Welsh team that is what Welsh supporters are meant to do.

No one is selling the All Blacks short sunshine! You are creating that elusion yourself.
 
How did Robert get MOTM when they were beaten so handy?

I know it was tight up to 65mins and admittedly I didn't see it but was he that good?
 
I knew we were going to lose it in the end, but that defensive display is unmatched by anyone except Ireland atm. People saying All Blacks butchered many chances, i'll just point out that Wales also butchered numerous in the first half. Just like the All Blacks, if we had taken half our chances, we could have been out of sight.

Proud of the performance for 68ish mins. Unhappy with the explosion, but a luck of the bounce and an extra gear seem to be All Black traits like no other. They make their own luck in the end. Fantastic 80 minute team.

Hibbard MOTM for me. Savea was effective too, the only one making real yards for NZ.

But everyone please (not everyone, but you know what i mean), when the All Blacks don't dominate an entire game once in a while, don't just jump to how terribly they played - The opposition is most often the reason.

Congrats All Blacks, deserved win in the end. And well won too.
 
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Oi enough of the slagging off from you thanks. ESPN Scrum stats are not that accurate either. JR was good today, made meters with ball in hand, tackled well and was very good all round. No one is selling the All Blacks short sunshine! You are creating that elusion yourself.
I would never use Scrum.com's stats by itself. You can argue the accuracy here or there but when you have a player of North's quality and he hardly touches the ball that's a problem. Whether the stats are wrong and North actually touched the ball 3 times rather than 0 isn't very important. Either way you need to get a player like that involved more. For me the whole point of a 12 making good metres is so you suck players in and then get quick ball for the outsides. Wales, like Scotland last week, defended valiantly and forced us into a lot of mistakes. In the end I feel teams need to actually bring something if they want to beat us.
 
I wonder what Davies said to get the ABs so fired up?? A lot of the players took offense to whatever was said
 
HAVE. He'd HAVE. As in: he would HAVE started, not he would of started, that doesn't even make sense. You're getting confused between would've (short for would have) and would of because they sound similar. No charge for the English lesson.

And you're missing the fact that he was clearly the number one and incumbent until missing the flight, so he was obviously in enough form to be the number one all year until then. Hansen said he had a plan to give them all a start this tour, and you would have to say Cruden was the best of all the starters.


It makes perfect sense and you know it. What a load of bleather.

He was the number one and he was still playing like CRAP that says more about our back ups than him!!! Which is why Slade now appears to be a solid option in the team!!!
 
I would never use Scrum.com's stats by itself. You can argue the accuracy here or there but when you have a player of North's quality and he hardly touches the ball that's a problem. Whether the stats are wrong and North actually touched the ball 3 times rather than 0 isn't very important. Either way you need to get a player like that involved more. For me the whole point of a 12 making good metres is so you suck players in and then get quick ball for the outsides. Wales, like Scotland last week, defended valiantly and forced us into a lot of mistakes. In the end I feel teams need to actually bring something if they want to beat us.

I'm not debating North, don't think I can recall the ball getting to him. It is sad to be honest. Saints utilise him well, Wales have failed to do that.
 
Oi enough of the slagging off from you thanks.

ESPN Scrum stats are not that accurate either.

JR was good today, made meters with ball in hand, tackled well and was very good all round.



No one is selling the All Blacks short sunshine! You are creating that elusion yourself.

Why don't they have freedom of speech in the USA? It's a discussion forum, as long as it relates to the match I can voice my opinion on the match as much as I like.
 
It makes perfect sense and you know it. What a load of bleather.

He was the number one and he was still playing like CRAP that says more about our back ups than him!!! Which is why Slade now appears to be a solid option in the team!!!

He wasn't playing like crap. His goal-kicking was poor. His general play was very good. I know it's not worth debating with you though.

The poll on the stuff.co.nz website shows that over 40% of voters think Barrett deserved man of the match. This suggests (a) there were a lot of people that didn't watch the match and simple voted for him as they saw he scored 2 tries or (b) a lot of people don't have a clue about rugby. I'm guessing it is a combination of the two...
 
It makes perfect sense and you know it. What a load of bleather.

He was the number one and he was still playing like CRAP that says more about our back ups than him!!! Which is why Slade now appears to be a solid option in the team!!!

saying "he would of" makes no sense at all. Go grab a dictionary.

well he wasn't playing like crap, you can say it as much as you want, doesn't make it anymore true.
 
Why don't they have freedom of speech in the USA? It's a discussion forum, as long as it relates to the match I can voice my opinion on the match as much as I like.

Lol you do realise I am not from the USA hahaha how many people has this caught people out :lol:

I'm not saying you can't so don't get your knickers in a twist.

Just stating that you leave old Brian alone. Roberts or Hibbard for me could have gotten the MOTM.
 
And just to note, i think Barnes had a great game. I had no clue what was going on in the scrums, but then neither did many. Glad to see little reason for people to slag him.

Oh and the Wales lineout in the second half was dreadful, lost us momentum time and time again.
 
Wasn't that Ranger poster an Aucklander though? :p can't be too surprised by silly posts like that, heh.

I think I remember him. Use to have it in for anyone born outside the region.

Nope, I'm pretty sure Ranger was from the Wellington region, but perhaps NickNZ could confirm that ... I never got the vibe that, he was particularly biased against players from outside of his region, well, no more so than anyone else :)

... I always thought he had a pretty good knowledge of some of the up and coming players to watch for, coming out of the NZ academies etc.

... To be fair on his comments on Slade, he (Slade), did look like a deer trapped in the headlights a bit, a few years ago ... I had doubts, and I'm from the Crusaders region.

Anyway, I've survived the potential heart attacks listening to this match on the radio, I'm very much looking forward to seeing it some time soon.

The goal kicking stuff, well see where we are at in Seven months time ... All of that can be fixed over the super season.
@Darwin ... Yes, we'll identified, outside backs need to be able to field the high ball on attack and defense, and a fullback who can kick/clear the ball a great distance, is definitely an asset ... Ben Smith's ability to do this, puts him in the top two fullbacks playing for the All Blacks, along with Dagg .. Which is great, because we need two :p
 
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